.358 Win a short range chambering?

[waksupi]

I am aware over the years, most press on the .358 Win. has damned it as a short range woods round. I don't think so. Today, I went up the mountain, with my newest .358, for some plinking. I had a mixture of loads that I wanted to burn up.
Rocks out to 200 yards, were just kind of ho-hum, point at them, and you got a good puff of white from the rock.
Then I got into clear cuts, where I could see across the road systems. I started shooting at football size rocks, out to 375 yards, according to locating off of the GPS.
Holding the front bead on the rocks, was giving consistant hits. The rifle is sighted in at +2" at 100 yards, Redfield aperture sight, with Merit adjustable insert. Covering the target with the center of the bead at the longer range, was putting it right on.
By this time, I had used up the lighter bullets, and this was with the Bator Heavy (277 gr.) at 2080 fps. from my other rifle. In this rifle, there was resistance on bolt closing, so the bullets were being forced into the throat more than the other rifle. I beleive I can safely assume I was running slightly higher velocities, although there were no signs of extremes in pressure.
I don't know how much area the front bead subtends at that range, a fair amount I would think. However, I do believe the .358 Win. should be good for minute of antelope, at longer ranges.

Woods round?

Hah!

[jhalcott]

I haven't had a .358 in long time! Last one was a Savage lever gun that a prior owner had cut the barrel back to about 18". I got it for bear hunting in the woods of Maine. It worked VERY well..Bear and deer and ONE coyote fell to 225 grain bullets. It was accurate with the J bullets I fed it. I am thinking hard about building a bolt gun in that caliber. It would do 90% of what my Whelen does and use a bit less powder.

[9.3X62AL]

The more time one spends actually shooting, the more ridiculous a lot of the gunrag tripe becomes--and this subject ranks highly in that class. I got a little of this same drag from a couple of belted magnum cheerleaders at work when I bought a 9.3 x 62, and statements of this quality tell me A LOT about how little time such sources spend afield or on the range--and how much time they spend reading ballistic data and gunrag bullsnot.

[MT Gianni]

One dead loper with the 356 wearing a 3x9 burris and J-word bullets. Not the same but shows what is possible. Gianni.

[S.R.Custom]

A quick look at the Sierra tables shows us that the .358 with my favorite bullet has a +/- 2.5" PBR of 220 yards with a 185 yard zero. Personally, I zero my .358 BLR for 250 yards-- I have to aim a few inches low at 150 yards, but other than that I can hold spot-on out to 300 yards...

[Uncle R.]

The more time one spends actually shooting, the more ridiculous a lot of the gunrag tripe becomes--and this subject ranks highly in that class. I got a little of this same drag from a couple of belted magnum cheerleaders at work when I bought a 9.3 x 62, and statements of this quality tell me A LOT about how little time such sources spend afield or on the range--and how much time they spend reading ballistic data and gunrag bullsnot.

Mister - you nailed that one!
:drinks:
Most of the people that I've heard blathering about 500 yard shots couldn't reliably hit a billboard at that range, let alone the kill zone of a game animal. Those gun rag articles and super-duper cartridge promoters do game animals a grave disservice. Joe six pack figgers that he's carrying the new .30 Extremely Huge Westernmag so he's good to go at half mile range - and then blams away from offhand at anything he can see. With no knowledge of field positions, trigger control or sling use - and perhaps a serious flinch as well - the sad result is a lot of wounded game.
Uncle R.

[Bass Ackward]

Rocks out to 200 yards, were just kind of ho-hum, point at them, and you got a good puff of white from the rock.
Then I got into clear cuts, where I could see across the road systems. I started shooting at football size rocks, out to 375 yards, according to locating off of the GPS.

I don't know how much area the front bead subtends at that range, a fair amount I would think. However, I do believe the .358 Win. should be good for minute of antelope, at longer ranges.

Woods round?

Hah!


Why hell yes. And those are not very aerodynamic either. Afte reading several books, I figured you westerners did 375 yards with handguns! :grin:

We get into too many debates about this cartridge or that. A gun is a launching system that allows you to launch a certain weight bullet to a certain velocity. Period. Once on it's way, it is subject to physics and the cartridge / gun has nothing to do with it.

My 35 caliber bullets with 60% meppers are 2 1/2" high at 100 and dead on again at 200. At 300 I am exactly 12" low center of group. Although my groups are tending to become vertical strings from round because of the meplat (BC) magnifying ES. Cross hair covers that much. Vertical stringing get's way worse at 400 though. Put it to paper and you will see.

Here, in civilization, I don't get enough long range practice, so .... I limit myself to a much more .... mundane 200 yards. :grin:

[Marlin Junky]

My 35 caliber bullets with 60% meppers are 2 1/2" high at 100 and dead on again at 200. At 300 I am exactly 12" low center of group.

Bass,

What launch velocity range do we need for that type of trajectory?

MJ

[Bass Ackward]

I am at an average of 2260 fps with an ES of 40 fps.

[Marlin Junky]

I am at an average of 2260 fps with an ES of 40 fps.

Wow, I would have thought 2500 fps was necessary for that trajectory.

MJ

[9.3X62AL]

You can't get a whole lot further "west" than where I live--maybe 60 miles from the Pacific. Still, the longest shot I've ever taken on a deer was 125 yards or so in the local mountains. I've SEEN 300-400 yard shots, but most would require helicopter recovery to extract......so those shots don't get taken. 90% of my deer hunting locally can be done quite well with a 30-30 WCF, and exactly half of my rifle-taken deer fell to that caliber (3 of 6). The 358 Winchester is just fine for elk, deer, and probably moose at any reasonable range a game shot should he taken at. Last but not least--people who routinely speak of 300+ yard shots on game animals likely never dragged one that far in mountains like those I hunt in--or hire it done, I suppose. I could never find that sort of assistance at the Home Depot parking lot early enough in the morning to take hunting, anyway.

[Scrounger]

Just for the record, Al, even NVcurmudgeon is farther west than you are, not to mention all the guys in Washington, Oregon, and Alaska.

[leftiye]

Actually I'm further west, and I'm in Utah. Deputy, You haven't lived until you drag a mulie down one of our mountains! Better still, shoulder it (LOL)! Up is even worse for some reason. Though they do got some nasty hills in So Cal.

[Marlin Junky]

How the heck does this group manage to get so far off topic so easily? Can we please stick to talking about guns and cast boolit shooting? Everyone who has had the displeasure of living in Kalifornia knows it's a welfare state that'll never be what is was 40 plus years ago. I think there's been more habitat eradicated in the Golden Socialist State than anywhere else I've visited. The next big job creating project will be to bore a hole through the mountain range dividing Orange from Riverside counties. It'll be a wonderful project that'll put many to work at the expense of destroy nasty ol' deer habitat in the Cleveland Nat'l Forest that we can certainly live without in favor of a bustling economy. Man, this off topic stuff is contagious.

MJ

P.S. Please allow me to add that: "The West" is defined by a state of mind or attitude, not a longitude line.

[9.3X62AL]

Too funny, MJ! :-)

Yeah, boring big tunnels through deer country makes much more sense than adding more commuter trains to already-existing track mileage. JEEZ!!

Art, yer right of course. Being closer to the surf (Where The Debris Meets The Sea) momentarily confused me. I live in the fervent hope that we are only one good earthquake away from having Beaumont and Indio as port cities.

[Marlin Junky]

Deputy Al,

I don't think you'll ever see fewer cars and trucks on the expressways in So. CA. I think you'll being to see more and more that burn cleaner fuel until everyone who can, is working out of their home. There already are more people working out of their homes these days than ever before which is great except for the local traffic congestion caused by those running around town doing errands like buying supplies and visiting customers. There's just too many of us, which is another reason to stop illegal immigration.

Oh yeah... no, the .358 Winchester is a MODERATE range chambering for us moderates and conservatives who really love shooting cast boolits. There, we're back on topic for three seconds.

MJ

P.S. Has anyone ever owned a 4-cavity SAECO #352? I'm thinking about ordering one (127 bucks at Midway) because I now have a .35 Remington, 35 Whelen and the topic of this thread, a .358 Winchester. I'm wondering how much the cavities vary on 4-cavity SAECO molds. I use two RCBS 30-180FN's in rotation for my .30's and one mold casts boolits about 1 grain heavier than the other which isn't a big issue but it does complicated things. I'm also wondering if 2, 2-cavity molds in rotation would actually cast more good boolits in a given time frame than a single 4-cavity mold due to cooling time in between casts.

[Paul B]

MJ. I have two SAECO molds, one casting a 120 gr. bevel base .30 caliber and the other a 250 gr. Keith style .44 caliber bullet. The .30 cal has a variance of about .5 gr. between the four bullets most of the time and maybe a one to two gr. difference one the .44 mold. Mine are earlier models before SAECO got bought out. very good molds IMHO.
Paul B.