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View Full Version : This 10/22 just wont shoot worth $#*%



buck1
04-22-2012, 06:41 PM
This has been a long bumpy road. Several years ago I was out of town and fell in love with a Ruger USA shooting team SS hammer forged bull bbl 10/22. I bought it and got it scoped.
The groups were only fair(1.5" at 50) as I tryed Remington, winchester, CCI, Federal, ETC. . I play with it a wile get discusted and put it away for a long wile, then do it again, and again .........ETC.
I have a good trigger in it , Tryed 3 differnt scopes, all kinds of rests , bla bla bla.
It dont like me.
To be fair I have not tryed the high end ely etc ammo. But still it should shoot better than this. My other 22s will out shoot it with multiple ammos.
I am thinking it should shoot closer to 3/4 at 50 yds.
This thing looks like it should be able to shoot the wings off a fly, but not even close.
I work long and strange hours , so it may be a few days before I get back to this thread. ANY THOUGHTS GUYS?......Buck

uscra112
04-22-2012, 08:24 PM
In .22 rimfire, good ammo is everything ! No gun will shoot better than it's ammo, but correct ammo can make a dog look like a fox. More on this later. . . .

Cheap ammo (and some not-so-cheap) ranges from bad to worse. Weight variance can be upwards of 3 grains, which is a lot considering that the whole cartridge only weighs about 50. Bullets in some common ammo vary in diameter and runout. I know this because I've been systematically evaluating such ammo for a couple of months now. (I used to do process control gaging before I retired, and I just can't give it up.)

If fifteen bucks a box for Eley Match puts you off, (it does me), be it known that ordinary ammo can be improved by weight-sorting and "bumping".

In weight-sorting I found that, of the ones I've tested, only Eley target ammo, (NOT Eley Sport), Wolf Match, and Federal 922 had really good weight variance out of the box. Even so-called "target" ammo such as Winchester T-22 and Federal 711 rather stunk. Of the less expensive ammo, the winner so far is CCI MiniMags, hands down. (Have yet to find any Federal Automatch to compare.) Sorting out the real outliers eliminated the bad fliers in my groups, so things did get better. Using sorted lots having weight variance under +/-0.2 grains did even more.

But I started this project to evaluate the practice of "bumping" the .22 bullet to make it a uniform .2250" diameter. This in fact has worked quite well for me. It ought to. Semi-autos almost all have very sloppy chambers. Even the much-touted "Bentz chamber" used in many 10/22 "target" barrels is nominally .2264" in the bullet seat, as against real target .22s (i.e. bolt guns) which have seats of .2240" to .2245". A normal cartridge in a Bentz chamber is rattling around like a loose lug nut in a hubcap.

Proof at the range: I had a bone-stock 10/22 that was a 5 MOA rifle. Never used it, it was so bad. Using sorted and "bumped" MiniMags, it will now shoot 3/4" groups all day long at 50 yards, off sandbags. This year it will be the go-to CIWS for chucks in the garden. It's now at least as good as my Marlin 39. I may even try it in silhouette match this summer.

(Full disclosure: I say bone stock, but I did use a shim to wedge the action tighter in the stock, and it does have an improved trigger.)

The downside of sorting, aside from the fact that it's tedious, is that with some cheap ammo you will end up with maybe 20% of the lot which is too far off to use for anything but making noise. That's another point in favor of MiniMags. I get two lots of 45 to 50 rounds from a box, each lot having variance of +/-0.2 grains, and that leaves only half a dozen or so that must be relegated to duty as "foulers". But since I have found it to be absolutely true that you have to shoot at least a dozen rounds of any ammo to "condition the bore" before trying to judge whether it's any good, maybe it's not all THAT bad a thing to have a few rounds set aside as foulers.

Phil

tomme boy
04-22-2012, 10:41 PM
You might have to cut off a inch or so and have it re-crowned. I think I remember a lot of people on RFC forum having to do this to make it shoot right.

What I would do, sell that barrel and get a aftermarket one. You will be $ ahead by doing this.

2ndAmendmentNut
04-22-2012, 10:50 PM
Wow uscra112 that was a great read thank you for taking the time to post that.

crabo
04-22-2012, 11:18 PM
Try a box of Wolf Target or SK Standard Plus, (same thing, different packaging), for about $5 a box. If it won't shoot with that, you need to start looking at crowns, scope mounts, scopes, ect.

jh45gun
04-23-2012, 09:44 AM
Sell it and buy a Marlin. I have owned 5 10/22 rifles in my life time I now Own Marlin Bolt actions two of them older Marlin 80's one I use for Silhouette shooting. But I have shot Marlin 60 rifles of others and I owned one and any of them shot better then the Rugers and as well as my 80's and that is with standard cheap ammo. I am shooting silhouette with of all things Rem Thunderbolt or the Fed pack hollow point ammo and both shoot well in either Marlin rifle I have.

Jim
04-23-2012, 10:03 AM
Several months back, I bought a little 'Cricket' .22 single shot for 'coon huntin' cause it's light weight and easy to carry. I went through no less than a dozen or more different brands/types to find what it wanted. Oddly enough, I found that it shoots the Aguila high speed and CCI Blazer really well. I was kinda' surprised at that, thinking the expensive stuff would be the best. Not so.

I really believe that if you're patient enough and go through every ammo you can get your hands on, you'll eventually find something that will meet your expectations. If you give the rifle the opportunity, it will tell you what it wants.

largom
04-23-2012, 10:04 AM
Had a guy bring one into the shop with the same problem. First and only thing I did was to recrown the muzzle. Gun shot one ragged hole after that.

Larry

montana_charlie
04-23-2012, 12:35 PM
Of the less expensive ammo, the winner so far is CCI MiniMags, hands down.
Know the truth when you hear it ...

CM

Ola
04-23-2012, 12:56 PM
Try a box of Wolf Target or SK Standard Plus, (same thing, different packaging).Really? Wolf rimfire ammo is made in Germany by Lapua owned factory? That would explain why we DO NOT have Wolf .22's here (we have all the Wolf center fire ammos, made in Russia). Those bastards in Lapua!

shotman
04-23-2012, 04:27 PM
bet crown to be problem also look at the bolt up it may be loose. as its not fitted to receiver

hiram
04-23-2012, 07:13 PM
Check to see the 2 v-block screws are tight.

uscra112
04-23-2012, 08:33 PM
Really? Wolf rimfire ammo is made in Germany by Lapua owned factory? That would explain why we DO NOT have Wolf .22's here (we have all the Wolf center fire ammos, made in Russia). Those bastards in Lapua!

Well, I'll vouch for the fact that my boxes of Wolf Match say "Made in Germany".

Good point made about the crown - it's unusual these days to see a bad crown on a factory barrel, but if it got dropped or ?? that could be a problem. Get a good strong magnifier and inspect. I use a 10X jeweler's loupe. That level of magnification should also show you wear caused by the previous owner cleaning it with a rod from the muzzle without a rod guide. Corrective action may be no more than lapping it, but if it's badly dinged or worn, cutting off the barrel may be necessary.

Phil

hiram
04-23-2012, 09:00 PM
I took my 10-22 apart. ran a cleaning rod in until it touched the rear of the receiver and drew a circle around it with a marker. I then transcribed the circle with dividers to the outside of the receiver and drilled a hole a little larger than the cleaning rod.

Now you can clean fron the rear instead of the muzzle.

dnotarianni
04-23-2012, 09:03 PM
Check to see the 2 v-block screws are tight.

+1
Also check that the reciever mounting bolt to the stock is tight. Anything loose will toss accuracy out the window.

Dave

lcclower
04-23-2012, 09:05 PM
10-22, put on your reading glasses and go over to rimfirecentral.com.
It is the mother lode of 10/22 wisdom.
Or sell the 10/22 and get a CZ.

Hardcast416taylor
04-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Buck. I can solve your problem. Box it up and send it to me! I`ll give it a nice home in my safe with my other 10/22`s.Robert

buck1
04-23-2012, 11:15 PM
Thanks for the replys guys!
I have doubble checked every screw on it a few times, pulled the bbl and cleaned the he77 out of it from the rear,swapped scopes, rings, and stock, new fireing pin, and the crown is a thing of beauty. This things killing me!
Funny thing is as Jim said my Sons $100.00 Crickett will out shoot it and with bulk Remingtons no less.
Now heres something I forgot to add, every once and a wile it will shoot a dime sized group. Say 1 in 20- 30 groups It does this. But it is not repeteable with the same ammo, hold ,cheek/rest placement. Thanks again....Buck

crabo
04-24-2012, 12:31 AM
Really? Wolf rimfire ammo is made in Germany by Lapua owned factory? That would explain why we DO NOT have Wolf .22's here (we have all the Wolf center fire ammos, made in Russia). Those bastards in Lapua!

http://www.championshooters.com/store/product.php?productid=605&cat=312&page=1

Ola
04-24-2012, 06:05 AM
Thanks. That explains it completely.

softpoint
04-24-2012, 08:35 AM
I have a 10/22 that I got as a standard barrel version, cheap, and I put a Green mountain barrel on it and some better trigger parts. It will now outshoot my Remington 541S, my heavy barrel Savage and my 39A. The 541S is close, but the 10/22 will beat it by a little. I think you can still get a Green mountain barrel for a little over $100 if you check around, and for a cheap barrel they are very good.

goodsteel
04-24-2012, 10:41 AM
Just because the crown looks pretty, doesn't mean that it was cut correctly.

405
04-24-2012, 02:18 PM
Never saw one shoot the way the new owner, full of pride, hoped.... without a bunch of tinkering, rebuilding, $, etc. Fun plinker- yes. Serious or even half-way accurate 22 out of box- no. Same could be said, IMO, about the famous Min-eye 14.

Pat I.
04-24-2012, 02:23 PM
Softpoint's got the answer. Get rid of the Ruger barrel and replace it with a Green Mountain.

jh45gun
04-24-2012, 06:14 PM
Better yet is get rid of it by trading it in and get a Marlin . No sense putting more money into a money pit.

buck1
04-24-2012, 08:22 PM
Thanks guys, I will sort some ammos and then try some of the SK/woolf stuff and go from there. Great help guys!...Buck

uscra112
04-24-2012, 08:37 PM
And have a look at this thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=111860

Wally
04-24-2012, 08:57 PM
This past weekend I shot a Model 60, a 10-22, & a Marlin 890V using three types of bulk .22 RF Range 120 yards--all guns had good scopes and I used a rest. The target---empty spray paint cans. The 980V shot the best and I quickly determined that one brand of ammo was by far the best... then I compared the 10-22 to the Marlin 60. At 50 yards or less both were good...I favor the 60 a bit more, but I like the feel of the 10-22. So I loaded both up with the "best" ammo...the model 60 shot nearly as good as the 980V...with the 10-22 I was hard pressed to hit any of the cans. Don't get me wrong--I am not a Ruger basher... the funny thing is I had a 4 x 12x scope on the 980V and the Ruger...on the model 60 just a 4X scope. When I got home I swapped scopes on both.

I know what you are thinking--what was the superior ammo used----it was a bulk box of Remington Golden Bullet!

montana_charlie
04-25-2012, 12:48 PM
Never saw one shoot the way the new owner, full of pride, hoped.... without a bunch of tinkering, rebuilding, $, etc.
If I wanted 'best accuracy', I wouldn't buy a semi-auto ... period.
For tiny groups, I have an Anschutz with a bolt.

But, I bought my 10-22 in 1979, and I have not been disappointed, yet ... nor have I changed anything about it's configuration.

CM

Rick Hodges
04-25-2012, 01:31 PM
I have a 10/22T with a Weaver 2-7X .22 scope. I use it for inexpensive practice and squirrel hunting. It shoots Remington Tbolt and Cyclone into 3/4" at 50 yds. (old lot purchased by the case when I found how well it shoots)

Plenty good for my purposes. I have never put the target ammo through it. Why the "T" model...it feels like a rifle and not a toy. I like the added weight.

jh45gun
04-25-2012, 04:14 PM
I had one and yea they are accurate but I did not care for the weight I traded it off when I bought my Encore. But your paying for Ruger to make a accurate rifle when their stock rifles are not all that accurate for the cheaper prices they sell for. Does not mean you need a heavy barrel either that is BS in a 22 LOTS of 22 rifles with sporter barrels can shoot tight groups as well as the tricked out 22's can with the heavy barrels. Both my Marlin Model 80 Deluxe's shoot as well as my Ruger Target did at a lot less weight and no heavy barrel.

Shiloh
04-28-2012, 11:18 PM
bet crown to be problem also look at the bolt up it may be loose. as its not fitted to receiver

New barrels, or take off barrels are available from Ebay, or the Rimfire websites.


Check to see the 2 v-block screws are tight.

Another good suggestion and simple fix.

Shiloh

buck1
05-01-2012, 06:32 PM
I got in from work before 5 for a change and stopped by the local gun shop. They had some Eley biatholon ammo there. It was 15.99 for 50 rds but I wanted to try some match ammo and this was the only choice. I had a chance to get to the range and this stuff would shoot well. 1/2 " un measured ctc at 50 yds. So I am going to follow USCRA112s advice and try to sort some cheeper stuff and retry . If I ever get another day off that is.....Thanks guys!

uscra112
05-01-2012, 08:55 PM
A cost-effective investment, I'd say. Much better'n blowing a couple hundred on a new barrel, and now you can be pretty sure that your own barrel is at least decent. If it had crown problems, or was loose in the action, it would not have done so well. And you can spend the $$ that would have bought the new barrel on a Waltz "bumping" tool. Or if you've got a little machining capacity, P/M me and I'll show you how I made my own tool using an old .44 die as the chassis. Key is having a chucking reamer of the desired diameter.

Cmasailor
05-01-2012, 09:44 PM
A cost-effective investment, I'd say. Much better'n blowing a couple hundred on a new barrel, and now you can be pretty sure that your own barrel is at least decent. If it had crown problems, or was loose in the action, it would not have done so well. And you can spend the $$ that would have bought the new barrel on a Waltz "bumping" tool. Or if you've got a little machining capacity, P/M me and I'll show you how I made my own tool using an old .44 die as the chassis. Key is having a chucking reamer of the desired diameter.

Waltz's Dies shrank my groups by around 30% without weight sorting or rim checking, 4days two rifles and 4 bricks of ammo worth of testing, not a cheap route, but it was fun. the wolf target ammo bumped with the fp punch to produce a meplat of .028 makes a 10shot group smaller than a dime at 50yrds in my bone stock bull bbl 10/22 with a 22mag simmons scope and cheap rings.

but the majority of my shooting was done with win wildcat round nosed garbage. I say garbage cause compared to the bricks of 10+yr old wildcat, the new stuff sucks. I thought it was the gun. the waltz dies bring the wildcat back to the 1/2 to 3/4 in range at 50yrds when it was twice that :killingpc

Ammo aint what it used to be. and they're charging a premium for the accuracy that used to be standard. been shooting my center-fires more than I used to lately because of it.

uscra112
05-02-2012, 03:38 AM
That's about the same as my experience, cmasailor. (30% reduction in group size by bumping alone.) Try sorting that Wildcat for weight. I'll bet you'll identify and segregate 10% or more that are so heavy or so light that they cannot possibly hit in the same group. My Wolf Match was pretty good as far as weight variance, and I did not make a serious effort at testing it "bumped". Will try next range day, using my Ballard and Stevens single shots. I've already settled on sorted and bumped Mini Mags for the 10/22.

buck1
05-02-2012, 06:33 PM
Years ago I bought one of Paco Kellys Accurizers. I had bought it mostly for hunting ammo and It did do wonders over stock .22s on killing small game and if I recall they did shoot a little bit better in group size as well.
I had sized to .224, and they worked fine in revolvers and bolt/single shot guns but not the autos. But I am thinking of useing the other side that is .223 and giving it a go. The only thing that doesnt sit right is that it takes a hammer to reform ,and thats just not as good as a press where accuracy is the goal.
Does anyone have Waltz contact info? I will most likely get one this coming payday.
Thanks for the great help guys!!!!...Buck

Forrest r
05-03-2012, 07:50 AM
Look at post #40 in the thread "filing down 22's into SWC's" in this section "rimfires" of this website. It has Niel Waltz's phone # & Email address.

Another thing to try is put a strip of rubber/rubberband under the bbl at the front (foreend) of the stock. A piece of rubberband that is 1/8" thick by 3/16" to 1/4" wide & cut so it will lay in the whole 1/2 moon shape of the bbl chanel in the front of the stock will work. 10/22's only have 1 hold down screw & rely on the stock to hold the bbl/action securely. The rubber strip will act as a second hold down point for the bbl aiding in accuracy by having the bbl return to the same starting point time after time after time.

I've owned & used the Paco tool & the Waltz dies for years. You have to start with a good product to end up with a good product. The bottom line is you can't turn a dog turd into a tootsie roll.

There's always a big debate about sorting/weighing/measuring ammo. Again it comes down to garbage in garbage out. With cheap blammo ammo a .1 to .2 grain difference in weight is extremely common. Most of the weight difference is from the brass & the lead bullet. Don't think so, use a compareator tool & measure some cheap blammo ammo. It will measure as much as .060" difference in length with ammo in the same box compared to the Eley black box ammo pictured for example that has never been more than .003" difference in all the years/lots of ammo I've ever bought.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/100_1062.jpg

That consistency in length leads to the bullet being locked into the riflings in the leade of the camber in the same place time after time after time, consistency='s accuracy.

That is one of the things that the Waltz die will do for you, make everything the same OAL. It takes alot of testing "micro adjustments" to dial an ammo in for a specific rifle/pistol due to the different chamber dementions.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/ptgreamers.jpg

I've used the PTG Lilja reamer on several different bbl's & they all shot the same modified ammo from the Waltz die equelly well.

405
05-05-2012, 12:39 AM
If I wanted 'best accuracy', I wouldn't buy a semi-auto ... period.
For tiny groups, I have an Anschutz with a bolt.

But, I bought my 10-22 in 1979, and I have not been disappointed, yet ... nor have I changed anything about it's configuration.

CM

Suppose so. Every once in a while a pearl can pop out of a Ruger 10-22 box that might shoot better than and inch or so at 50 yds. Many times it's closer to 2-3" at 50. So, I guess there's no reason that this thread, other threads here and elsewhere keep asking the basic question. "How come this 10-22 won't shoot?" And among the common responses, "Oh ya, great and accurate guns....uhhhh but you may have to chase down the accuracy with a trigger job or new barrel or bolt mod. or etc." (in other words spend a bunch more time and $ chasing down accuracy). Have a friend locally who shoots competitive 22rf including doing a bunch of the gunsmithing for other competitors. These guys shoot .1s @ 50 yds w/ both non-optical irons and scopes with their BSAs, 52Ds, Coopers, Anschutz, etc. - so they know what accurate is. He has the lathe and mill to do the work so thought what the hey, and bought a 10-22 to see what it would do... small, semi-auto 22rfs fit into one of the competitions they shoot. A new receiver, bolt, springs, trigger, barrel, sights, stock, misc. hardware plus a bunch of machining and fitting and about $1500 later got the thing to shoot OK. Now he just grins and states, "well at least it's got a couple of genuine Ruger screws in it". :)

Shiloh
05-05-2012, 08:47 AM
Thanks for the replys guys!
I have doubble checked every screw on it a few times, pulled the bbl and cleaned the he77 out of it from the rear,swapped scopes, rings, and stock, new fireing pin, and the crown is a thing of beauty. This things killing me!
Funny thing is as Jim said my Sons $100.00 Crickett will out shoot it and with bulk Remingtons no less.
Now heres something I forgot to add, every once and a wile it will shoot a dime sized group. Say 1 in 20- 30 groups It does this. But it is not repeteable with the same ammo, hold ,cheek/rest placement. Thanks again....Buck

Drill a cleaning hole.
Repeated removing of the barrel will make loose in the receiver.
Ever thought about bedding it?? What is the trigger like?? Stock trigger or has it been worked or replaced. Trigger work can take a 8+ pound trigger to a crisp breaking 2.5 to 3 lb trigger.

A new aftermarket barrel can help as well.
10/22's can be made to give impressive groups.

Shiloh

NuJudge
05-06-2012, 12:20 AM
The guys on Rimfire Central told me about how they got great results from factory barrels. First they faced off the rear of the barrel by .200", and rechambered the rear with something similar to a Pistol Match reamer, which only lightly engraved the bullet. The typical 10/22 rifle is not completely reliable with Standard Velocity ammo such as Wolf Match Target, so they encouraged me to have the top/rear of my bolt radiused to improve reliability. There are some other things they encouraged me to do, such as Pillar bedding, resetting headspace and having a pin put in over the firing pin to prevent the firing pin kicking upward occasionally and giving squirrelly ignition. The rechambered and bedding did the most. Now all 3 i've had reworked shoot terrific with SV.

I use these rifles in Civilian Marksmanship Program .22 Sporter matches. I actually won a Gold achievement medal with an out-of-the-box 10/22, firing selected lots of a Match quality High Speed that used to be made by Lapua. Try some of the loads available now intended for Biathlon, and I seem to remember RWS R100 being loaded to a higher velocity spec.

jh45gun
05-07-2012, 01:27 AM
I find it interesting that folks will go through them lengths to make a Ruger 10/22 shoot that should shoot great in the first place with out having to "FIX" it Especially a so called target model. .As usual folks "Fix" Rugers to make them what they should have been from Ruger in the first place. All the guys that "Fix" Ruger products ever consider your just ENABLING Ruger to keep making poor products by not complaining and sending them back to Ruger.

uscra112
05-07-2012, 09:04 AM
I find it interesting that folks will go through them lengths to make a Ruger 10/22 shoot that should shoot great in the first place with out having to "FIX" it Especially a so called target model. .As usual folks "Fix" Rugers to make them what they should have been from Ruger in the first place. All the guys that "Fix" Ruger products ever consider your just ENABLING Ruger to keep making poor products by not complaining and sending them back to Ruger.

If I were a drinkin' man, which I'm not (much) I'd hoist a flagon to that sentiment. I had commercial dealings with Ruger many years ago, and remember that the people I was dealing with were far more focused corporate image and quick ROI than they were on product quality. I have sometimes wondered if Bill Ruger actually knew what his people were doing in his name. . . .

EdS
05-07-2012, 11:42 AM
NuJudge mentioned radiusing the rear of the bolt to improve functioning. It is actually the bottom rear, below the bolt-stop notch that is given a rounded contour to change the "leverage" in re-cocking the hammer. This mod is only useful if you are shooting lighter loads. -Ed

bowfin
05-07-2012, 12:19 PM
I find it interesting that folks will go through them lengths to make a Ruger 10/22 shoot that should shoot great in the first place

"Great" accuracy is subjective. There is Anchutz Meister grade "great" at over $2,000 per gun, and there is "hit the pop can every time" great. That should sell for considerably less than two grand.

We start making ourselves unhappy when we expect 10/22 = Anchutz at $1,800 less.

LEADLUBBER
05-07-2012, 02:02 PM
We all know there are exceptions to the rules, as some Annies can't be made to shoot great without being very picky of the ammo also...


I say if the OP wants to keep the gun together the way it came from Ruger for the most part, have the chamber and leade, and crown checked by a master 10/22 gunsmith. The bolt headspace should also be fixed, modified on the heel of the bolt for std. velocity ammo and drop in a Clark, VQ or Kidd trigger to make it sweet...

Or, figure out why the ELEY ammo shoots so much better.... does it fit tighter in the chamber or is it longer than most of the other ammo You have shot? Does it have more lube on it than other ammo You have tried?

Have You tried fire-lapping the barrel yet?


I understand why You bought one of these, because, for all intents and purposes, it should be a tack-driver.... I try to wring all the accuracy I can out of my stock guns with little mods, so, with this one having a stumpy barrel on it already, it should be a good shooter.

jh45gun
05-07-2012, 10:12 PM
[QUOTE=bowfin;1702419]"Great" accuracy is subjective. There is Anchutz Meister grade "great" at over $2,000 per gun, and there is "hit the pop can every time" great. That should sell for considerably less than two grand.

We start making ourselves unhappy when we expect 10/22 = Anchutz at $1,800 less.[/QUOTE

There is a lot of bolt guns that shoot very well and are cheaper in price. Old Remington bolts come to mind they are tack drivers. So are many of the Marlin Bolt guns. My Marlin 80 Deluxe shot so good that I bought an other one a Sears marked one and both are tack drivers I have not even began to mess with other ammo yet the CHEAP Remington Thunderbolt ammo shoots one ragged hole at 25 yards and I can hit 22 Silhouette targets with it just fine and be competitive with my friend who shoots an Anchutz with better ammo than I am. I think I will even do better this year with a Sweet 22 scope on my rifle because the Target scope I had on the rifle 10x40x with a target dot was too much scope for me to shoot off hand. That went on my 3006 cast bullet rifle for longer range shooting. Many folks sing high praises for the Savage bolt guns and of the three I mentioned they can shoot very well as an average.

brotherdarrell
05-09-2012, 07:50 PM
Years ago I bought one of Paco Kellys Accurizers. I had bought it mostly for hunting ammo and It did do wonders over stock .22s on killing small game and if I recall they did shoot a little bit better in group size as well.
I had sized to .224, and they worked fine in revolvers and bolt/single shot guns but not the autos. But I am thinking of useing the other side that is .223 and giving it a go. The only thing that doesnt sit right is that it takes a hammer to reform ,and thats just not as good as a press where accuracy is the goal.
Does anyone have Waltz contact info? I will most likely get one this coming payday.
Thanks for the great help guys!!!!...Buck

I had to go to .225 to get my stock 10/22 (circa '10) to get best accuracy. Got cci sshp good enough to get rock squirrels out to 70 yds, and they extracted and fed from the mag just fine.

I am convinced that just like the single-six ruger uses one barrel for both l.r. and mag chamberings, but can't prove it.

brotherdarrell - been sidetracked lately with a new to me Brno #4:D

jh45gun
05-10-2012, 06:17 PM
I had to go to .225 to get my stock 10/22 (circa '10) to get best accuracy. Got cci sshp good enough to get rock squirrels out to 70 yds, and they extracted and fed from the mag just fine.

I am convinced that just like the single-six ruger uses one barrel for both l.r. and mag chamberings, but can't prove it.

brotherdarrell - been sidetracked lately with a new to me Brno #4:D

That could be right about the barrel I guess we would only know if some one measured one I cannot I do not own any Rugers anymore but I owned at least 5 10/22's over the years and with the exception of the target model I owned all were average nothing to get excited about shooters with no bragging size groups. If they do that now which they could because I am positive the bean counters at Ruger are constantly looking for the bottom line back in the old days when Ruger made only a 22 LR and did not offer the mag rifle that really would not have made sense back then and even then the ones I had shot mediocre.

bowfin
05-10-2012, 11:03 PM
There are a lot of bolt guns that shoot very well and are cheaper in price.

Question being: Should a guy expect a Ruger 10/22 to shoot as something other than a Ruger 10/22?

unclebill
07-20-2012, 08:49 AM
open up the bbl channel and pillar bed the action.

goodsteel
07-20-2012, 11:22 AM
Ruger puts out a lot of crappy barrels. That is an indisputable fact. I bought one of the 22" barreled 10-22s from wal-mart because I like the look of it and they were the only place you could get one. I noticed that the rifle didn't seem very accurate to me. So I screwed on a decent scope, dropped the rifle into the sandbags, and settled in behind it to shoot some 50 yard groups with three different kinds of ammo. The groups measured 3.5" average.
I smithed the trigger. No change.
I crowned the barrel. No change.
I set the bolt headspace and radiused it while I was at it. No change.
I cleaned up the back of the barrel. No change.
I installed a green mountain barrel. 1" at 50 yards.
I have gotten a 10/22 to shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yards, and I could probably get it better, but it gets very discouraging to spend all that time and money so that you can start to approach the accuracy of the cheapest bolt action rifle on the shelf.:groner:
Especially when at the same time I was beating this dead donkey, I bought a beat up Winchester 290 from a pawn shop for $80 that would shoot 3/8" groups at 50 yards with cheap ammo and iron sights.
I just dont see why there are so many people that buy into the 10/22 thing. Its a gun that was designed to eat money! By the time you get done buying and swapping, and changing, and modifying and still more buying, you could have gotten a good shooting semi-automatic .22 that has some semblance of elegance that the 10/22 does not have. My opinion is that the 10/22 is a clunky, junky way to burn .22 ammo, and you have to jump through flaming hoops of fire and crawl 100yards over broken glass to make it anything other than what it was designed to be. I did all the mods to mine, and it worked quite well, and I was darn good with it, but now, I just don't like them. I know how to make them go, but I just can't burn any more money on one. If I were to start down the 10/22 rout again, I would just spend my money up front and get it over with by buying one from Volquartsen like so:
https://www.volquartsen.com/products/436-standard-model-rifle
Its about the same amount of money and you don't have to spend all the time learning how to build one of these guns. Not only that but you get a milled receiver (made of stainless steel if you wish) with a built in scope rail.
The bottom line is that you can add $500 and a few hours work to your 10/22 and get mediocre accuracy (the rout I took) but you will never get one hole groups out of one of these cast aluminum receivers with the scope, barrel, trigger group, stock, and magazine all bolted to it. Every single component that Ruger puts into that rifle from the factory in substandard for a target rifle. The barrel is lousy, the receiver is lousy, the trigger group is lousy, etc etc etc. These pieces need to be changed out if you want less than 1/2" at 50 yards.

Wally
07-20-2012, 11:58 AM
I happen to have a good one. I also like Marlins and have three. I scoped the 10-22 with a Tasco 4 x 12 x 40mm scope and shot Rem Golden Bullets with it at 125 yards...I was able to hit matchbook sized targets consistently using a rest... I have found that any Semi-Auto .22 RF is very finicky as to what type of ammunition that you use. The key is determining what that is. What I like teh most about the 10-22 is taht it jams far less often then do the Marlins. The recessed 10 shot magazine is also a big plus in my book. Sure nicer than the clips on a 795.

Marvin S
07-20-2012, 12:30 PM
I fixed mine cheap and easy, well cheaper than most. It was a nice delux pre warning rifle that I had to put in an exact edge extracter and a power custom sear kit,then after that I sold it and have never looked at one again. Replaced it with an old pre war Savage 6A and a Rem 241 speedmaster.

paul h
07-20-2012, 02:06 PM
I've had two 10/22's, with the std barrels. The std barrels just don't shoot that well. So I finally ponied up for a match bull barrel, a green mountain. Not only was the accuracy less than steller, it would fail to fire and fail to eject. I sent it back to Brownells and ponied up the extra sheckels for a Clark target barrel. Now my 10/22 shoots great and it feeds and ejects everything. Bulk ammo runs around 1" for 10 shots at 50 yds, match ammo a bit over 1/2" for 10 shots. My ownly beef with the Clark barrel is all they had in stock was the 21" barrel, which is way too heavy. Some day I'll cut it to 16 1/2" and probably thread it for a supressor.

With the proper barrel, properly chambered, the 10/22 will reliably shoot like a house a fire. Factory barrels generally won't get you there. My suggestion would be to sell your factory barrel and replace it with a Clark. You don't have to spend time with a gunsmith fudging with your factory barrel that now may shoot well, or maybe not.

unclebill
07-21-2012, 02:49 PM
do what everyone else does
throw money at it
the more the better

kullas
07-21-2012, 03:59 PM
I dont know what all the fuss is over 10/22's. I own one, can i shoot the same hole not really. Then again i dont shoot comps ether but i do shoot a lot of tree rats. The ones i miss is not because of the gun it is because i pulled the shot. I can not honestly say that the reason i have missed something is because of the gun or the ammo. My gun is a older one with the metal butt plate, who knows maybe i got a good one.

DieselPro
07-21-2012, 10:32 PM
Typically I don't try to make a gun shoot well. If it faulters or in this case very inaccurate I let someone else have it and move on. Lately I have been messing around with a few 10/22 rifle barrels. The barrel chambers are HUGE. I am sure they function perfectly but the bullet really wanders around in the chamber. Do this test on it. Secure the bolt back and insert a live 22 round in the chamber. Pull it back with tweezers half the distance of the round and see how bad it wobbles around. Think you will find one of your problems.

unclebill
07-22-2012, 07:26 AM
i spent $300 on one with a shilen bbl. that somebody else dumped a ton of money into.
then put a decent scope on it.
what a great lil shooter!

uscra112
07-25-2012, 09:39 PM
I just dont see why there are so many people that buy into the 10/22 thing. Its a gun that was designed to eat money! By the time you get done buying and swapping, and changing, and modifying and still more buying, you could have gotten a good shooting semi-automatic .22 that has some semblance of elegance that the 10/22 does not have.

It occurs to me that Americans buy 10/22s for the same reason that the British in the '50s/'60s/'70s bought the junk that their auto industry turned out for so many years. I began to realize when I was restoring these old crocks that the Brits actually liked tinkering with their cars. A car that needed no attention left a man with time on his hands on the weekends! Fixing the stone-age Lucas electrics for the nth time gave him a sense that he was in charge of his destiny.

Ditto the Harley phenomenon, if you ask me. (I'm gonna catch it now!) Buy a motorcycle with technology only one or two steps above my farm tractor, then spend another fat wad customizing it with loud pipes and apehangers. I reckon it's just so a man can feel unique in this otherwise mass-produced, one-size-fits-all world.

So why NOT buy a cheap rifle and hack around with it? There's precious little else we can fix by ourselves these days.

Yeah, I've got one 10/22. I have done nothing to it but put in a decent trigger. I also own a dozen old single-shot rifles. There's plenty to keep me occupied without customizing Rugers.

mstarling
07-25-2012, 11:25 PM
When I was in graduate school some 40 years ago, one of the fellas came back from break and told me that the private high school he was discontinuing its rifle team and was selling off the rifles. He did know much about them save that they were $35 each. I took a flier and sent him back on the next break with $35.

He returned with a bull barreled Winchester Model 52 bolt rifle in wonderful shape. Had no sights, but I had a Redfeld international sight in the junk box and a globe front sight cost me $10. Wonderful rifle.

My middle son got REALLY good with it and went on to be the Captain if the Coast Guard Academy rifle team. The 52 went with him.

Have bought two 10/22s since. They are both fun ... and with the right ammo are not shabby in the accuracy department but not quite the same as the 52!

shotman
07-26-2012, 12:41 AM
Post number 60 was DEAD on. I have several friends that bought them . ALL spent 5 times what the gun cost to "make it work" No 1 its an auto not a target rifle. You can lead the horse in the barn and feed it well . when it comes out its still the same horse
Remington come out with the 66/77 it was a good rifle but you cant scope it. If you use open sights it was good for what they are for OPEN

jh45gun
07-26-2012, 05:00 AM
I have shot Marlin 60 rifles that would put 10'22s to shame. Semi auto rifles can shoot but I do not know what is with the Ruger 10/22's in general. Their MK series pistols shoot well in fact I had one that shot better groups then any 10/22 did for me except the target model I had. For the record I have had 5 10/22's over the years maybe 6 and a Target version. so 6 or 7 I cannot remember off hand if it was 5 or 6 of the stock guns. The Target version shot excellent (It should have for the price but it was a boat anchor too darn heavy. The other standard ones shot ok for plinkers but were nothing to brag about. I now have two Marlin bolt guns now that will shoot I do not need to search for any others. Some folks say their guns are accurate stock with the Rugers better keep them then as they are all not that way. That is why there is such a cottage industry to make them shoot well.

paul h
07-26-2012, 02:25 PM
The 10/22 was designed to reliably load and shoot lots of ammo w/o jamming and w/o cleaning. Hence the spec tollerances are on the generous side, which hurts accuracy.

You don't have to spend 5 times what one costs to get it to shoot, just put a good barrel on it and either tune the stock trigger or drop in a replacement. That's all that is really needed to make a 10/22 shoot tiny groups.

Yes, if replace the barrel stock, and pretty much everything in the trigger group you can drop that kind of money into the gun, but it's not necessary.

uscra112
07-27-2012, 01:16 AM
The key factor that makes the 10/22 such an attractive thing to muck about with is that the barrel is not threaded into the receiver. Anyone with a screwdriver can change a 10/22 barrel. So of course they do, not knowing why except somebody said a new Brand G barrel is better than stock.

I will respectfully disagree with Paul is about swapping barrels.

Fact is, changing barrels on a 10/22 may or may not do a darned thing for you, except that it is guaranteed to empty your wallet. Why? Because the key to accuracy in every rifle is the fit of the bullet in the throat, assuming that there isn't any drastic damage to the crown.

Paul is exactly right in saying that the stock barrel has a loose chamber to assure reliable feeding without cleaning. But many if not most 10/22 aftermarket barrels boast of having a "Bentz chamber" or some such, and a "Bentz chamber" is actually just as loose as the stock one - nominal bullet seat is .2255" to .2260". Most ammo has bullet diameter of .2235 to .2245. Only by leaving the chamber short, so the bullet is jammed into the lands does a Bentz chamber have any advantage over the stock one. Which is why setting back the stock barrel actually would work, to some extent.

Might I reiterate here that by working with the ammo I feed it I have made a stock barrel shoot close to 1 MOA ? Make the bullet fit the stock throat, and good things happen, at far less cost than a new barrel. The only other things I have done is an aftermarket trigger and a card shim to tighten the action in the stock.

(You'll never see this written up in the magazines, because they'd lose ad revenue.)

ROGER4314
12-10-2012, 03:55 PM
The guys were a little rough on the 10-22's so I'll post a different point of view to keep things interesting.

I like the old bolt action rifles from H&R M12 to the spectrum of Mossbergs from 42Mb to 44US and 144LSA, Remington 513T, 540X and even a Springfield 1922M2. Add to that a pile of Marlins from 1930's to about 1980. They all shoot great! One Mossberg 42Mb had the bluing turn brown. They call that "patina". I just call it OLD! That brown 42Mb is my favorite offhand rifle with factory peep sights.

The point is that out of all of the .22's that I've owned, I like the 10-22's the best! I tinker and fiddle with the rifles and couldn't estimate how many 10-22's that I've owned. If YOU like the 10-22's, that's all that is necessary. Have a great time with them and tinker as much as you please. Cost of that tinkering is small so just get after it and enjoy the little rifles! There are millions of fans who feel the same way and you can count me in on that bunch, too.

Similarly, I've owned 30 motorcycles in 49 years of riding and have been all over the US on bikes. I got my FIRST Harley last year and like it the best of any of them! Two cylinders and push rods are a huge step down from the dual overhead cam, drive shaft, multiple cylinder, 800 pound monsters that I've owned but I like that Hog twin just fine!

Summed up.....Do what YOU like and don't worry about differing opinions. If you like 10-22's then get after them. I will, too.

Flash

ROGER4314
12-10-2012, 04:24 PM
A couple of additional words might be worth sharing for the OP.

That rifle ought to shoot bug holes at 50 yards. The guys covered a lot of important factors so I'll shoot at something different. I do NOT float the barrels of a 10-22 especially when I install the heavy, bull barrels. The aluminum receiver is simply not strong enough to support the weight of that barrel. Do you have another stock to try?

Secondly, most folks tighten the barrel to receiver clamps with far too much torque. Kidd recommends 10 INCH pounds torque on the two bolts. I don't have a torque wrench that will go down to 10 inch/lbs so I use 20 inch/lbs. That is 1.6 foot pounds and NOT a lot of torque!

Having mentioned the torque specs, it's possible the threads were stripped in the receiver. Is it ruined? Heck, no.....install some Helicoils and party on!

Good luck with it.

Flash

hithard
12-10-2012, 06:46 PM
Even pressure on those screws is a must

Bed that action and free float that barrel, shoot for groups. If the results aren't good. Then pressure bed the barrel, and shoot for groups again. Remember that adjusting the pressure on the barrel when bedding can change your groups.

TCLouis
12-13-2012, 11:46 PM
If yours has the barrel band, remove it and see if the accuracy improves.

docone31
12-14-2012, 12:13 AM
There are two things I do with the barrel band.
First, if it is for a standard barrel, and they will shoot, I open the barrel portion with a sanding drum. Dremel makes one. Short time and no contact with the barrel. I bed the action with Crazy Glue. Makes it hard and fast.
Second thing I do, on an heavy barrel, I remove the barrel portion of the barrel band. I then counter sink two #4 oval head screw into the remaining band, two on each side. Looks great, sling still works, same with bipod, and no barrel contact. I also bed the reciever with C/A. In each case, I open up the channel so there is no contact.
They target real well.

farmallcrew
12-18-2012, 07:49 AM
Mine wont shoot groups well, but it will tear the hun out of beer cans. Plus doesnt help that i horded 22lr ammo when it was cheap. because when id go to the range, i would keep the big rifles at home because the cost of componets.

wallenba
01-14-2013, 01:49 PM
I installed a number of Volquartsen parts in mine, but I believe the one that helped the most was this simple kit https://www.volquartsen.com/products?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=bedding+kit

My 10/22 is a sporter type stock without the split stock. The barrel ring can make a difference.

SHOOTER IN EXILE
01-17-2013, 10:15 PM
Buck 1

During all my shooting life of 50 years, I have bought, sold, traded, gave and received firearms as gifts. The most regretted one is letting off the 10/22. The fact that may be You don't consider is that the 10/22 does not qualify in the high precision category. I believe that whatever improvements or accesories added or designed are due to its popularity and may be commercial benefits. Have you ever thought of a 22 L.R. machine gun or assault rifle ? The so called improvements in no way may enhance its accuracy. You are thinking right. At 50 yards 3/4 is excellent. Many years ago a friend of mine decided to get rid of his about 40 roosters that had grown beyond the commercial weight and got loose from the designed area. In about a couple of hours, the 10/22 solved the problem with 90/% head shots. Distance was between 30 to 50 yards.

I never had a problem with the 10/22, of course considering the performance expected from it. I'm sure no accesory could improve its capabilities with the exception of a scope for shooters with some sight problems like myself. Please allow me to insist that the 10/22 is not a precision designed rifle. It is a small game hunting, plinking and introducing youngsters to our wonderful sport

I wish I can get a 10/22 but it is quite difficult where I live.
Think again.

spotsboss
01-30-2013, 01:50 PM
If I wanted 'best accuracy', I wouldn't buy a semi-auto ... period.
For tiny groups, I have an Anschutz with a bolt.




CM

My Annie 64 has a 10 oz. trigger. When I took it out the first time, I didn't want to stop shooting it.