corrosive primers & black powder

[UPEgger]

Some time back I read a comment on the requirement for cleaning black powder rifles shortly after shooting is finished. In this short discussion was the following: " the greatest corrosion problem during the "black powder days" was not the black powder but the corrosiveness of the primers then in use.

I would like other thoughts on this line of thinking.

[Red River Rick]

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[UPEgger]

I do believe the statement. Back in the 50s I saw a beautiful 1903A3 30'06 beautifully engraved rifle, but the barrel was completely pitted from chamber to muzzle...This rifle had never had anything but corrosive primer, smokeless powder 30'06 ammo fired in it. It was sad.

However, I had forgotten about the fact that the primers back in "the day" were mercuric oxide based. Probably because I have not seen it mentioned in any black powder pubs. that I receive.

What is with the; What's the matter, you don't believe that statement? Be civil. Thank You.

[Lead Fred]

Folks took care of their firearms in the old days differently than they do today.

Those that did not take care of them, they pitted and rotted away.

Caps and primers have been around since the 1830s. The invent of the modern primer didnt come around until the 1950s.

Yet there are still 1000s of firearms here still today like trapdoors etc. Which had spent most of thier lives with icky primers.

[UPEgger]

I agree, care of the firearm IS key. I think about all the old time double rifles, which spent most of their useful lives in India and other very damp climates. Yet, are in amazingly near new condition a 100 years later. Sometimes I think my reluctance to extend my paper patch world to black powder is the result of laziness.

[Don McDowell]

Not only were primers fairly corrosive up until post worldwar , but the early smokeless powders were really nasty stuff. Winchester said not to reload with smokeless it would eat the cases, and there was nothing that could be done to stop it. Roberts writes of fine Schuetzen rifles that had shot blackpowder for years, suddenly crop up with pitted bores after a short diet of smokeless powder.

Nowdays we are lucky that we don't have the problems those guys had .

[Dan Cash]

I don't think the mercuric primers were particularly corrosive but the mercuric compounds left after ignition were very destructive of brass. With the advent of chlorate primers which were better at igniting the new smokeless propellants, the bore got a good coating of chlorate salts which did its dirty work in a matter of hours.

[Tim357]

What Dan said. The mercury based primers would attack the brass, but the by-products of the burning of black powder generally kept the mercury from attacking the brass right away. The chlorates in the newer primers would attract moisture and soon you ended up with a rusted bore.
It pays to take care of your guns.

[RMulhern]

I do believe the statement. Back in the 50s I saw a beautiful 1903A3 30'06 beautifully engraved rifle, but the barrel was completely pitted from chamber to muzzle...This rifle had never had anything but corrosive primer, smokeless powder 30'06 ammo fired in it. It was sad.

However, I had forgotten about the fact that the primers back in "the day" were mercuric oxide based. Probably because I have not seen it mentioned in any black powder pubs. that I receive.

What is with the; What's the matter, you don't believe that statement? Be civil. Thank You.

The man WAS CIVIL! You gave the impression you doubted the veracity of a statement concerning mercuric primer usage and the doubt was there! I would have asked the same question! How about you getting the chip off your shoulder and try developing some tougher skin!!

[UPEgger]

rmulhern; whatever. your interpretation of my comment was not the intent of my comment. there was never any question about the effect of corrosive primers. how about; "i would like to read other peoples thoughts on this topic"?

[L Ross]

Guys, remember we are dealing with the printed word on a darned screen here. Without voice inflection and facial expressions the cold hard print is often misinterpreted. I did not take Rick's reply as uncivil.
Another old corrosive primer tidbit relates to the intensity of the primer burn regarding the ignition of black powder. Serious shooters back in the day debated the ignition characteristics of percussion caps, later CF primers. Even today we play with LP versus LR trying to balance ignition with pressure and bullet movement.

Duke

[Red River Rick]

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[UPEgger]

RRR; You say you were being civil. I will believe that. We both have better/other things to do.

[PanaDP]

I agree, care of the firearm IS key. I think about all the old time double rifles, which spent most of their useful lives in India and other very damp climates. Yet, are in amazingly near new condition a 100 years later. Sometimes I think my reluctance to extend my paper patch world to black powder is the result of laziness.

Well, to be fair, in the case of double rifles they're in such fine condition because many of the people who could afford such a rifle could also afford a ghillie to carry the rifle and clean it every day.

[w30wcf]

......The old primers used to have mercuric componds in the primers, which are highly corrosive. Mixed with the saltpeter residue from the powder and the right moisture conditions......................you've got trouble.
RRR

Actually, corrosive primers contained potassium chlorate which ruined many a rifle bore if it wasn't cleaned properly. Mercuric compounds were hard on brass but not the barrel.

Regarding black powder, whereas potassium chlorate would start oxidation in a barrel within a day or two, it would take several weeks for b.p. to do the same.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Not only were primers fairly corrosive up until post worldwar , but the early smokeless powders were really nasty stuff. Winchester said not to reload with smokeless it would eat the cases, and there was nothing that could be done to stop it. Roberts writes of fine Schuetzen rifles that had shot blackpowder for years, suddenly crop up with pitted bores after a short diet of smokeless powder.

Nowdays we are lucky that we don't have the problems those guys had .

Don,
I do recall reading that same statement by Winchester. Later it was determined that the mercuric priming being used in the late 1890's early 1900's was the real culprit when igniting smokeless powders. The later use of corrosive primers was the real culprit of ruined barrels.

w30wcf