COAL for 452-228-1R in 45 ACP?

[altitude_19]

Friends:
I just loaded a bunch of cast 452-228-1R for the XD-45. When I guaged them in the chamber, they would not headspace properly (sticking out too far). The COAL listed for a RN bullet in the reloading manual was 1.275, but I ended up having to seat down to about 1.228 to get them to (begrudgingly) chamber, and that's only with the slide slamming them into the chamber (usually don't drop in cleanly otherwise). So I should probably be seating them below 1.220, but I'm worried about spiking pressure. Load is 5.0 gr of AA #2 (starting charge according to reloading manual).

So what is the best COAL for those of you firing 452-228-1R in your 45 autos?

[fredj338]

Too long. The length in the some manuals is SAAMI max. Bullets are NOT plug & play, you have to fit the bullet to your bbl. Add to that the XD has a pretty short throat & you have to load shorter. You'll find 1.245"-1.255" runs in most guns with most 225gr-230gr LRN. I don't use AA#2, but you should be fine w/ starting loads or 0.1gr up. The 45acp is pretty forgiving of seating deep.

[evan price]

1.250" is what i use for mine.

[altitude_19]

Thinking I'll try them as is. If I don't see any signs of high pressure (and really, with 45 ACP, how likely is that?) I'll just seat the next batch below 1.220. Didn't know the XD has a shorter throat than average...easy to believe. Anybody else? Anybody who's loaded this boolit for an XD45? Might be nice if I could find proven dimensions to save me the trial/error. :'D

[milprileb]

If I may add a dimension to this discussion. My manual said to seat at 1.275 and the rounds dropped into my gauge nicely (my barrel) but they were too long for my magazine and two would load but 3rd round would not go down in any mags.

I, too went to 1.250 till loaded rounds fed into magazines as well as into barrel.

Further: the above was happening with the more slender ogive bullets from the Lyman 225 RN mold. For my Lee 228 mold: its bullets are of a shorter fatter ogive and this may present
a problem in feeding up the ramp of some pistols if seated too deeply into cases.

For the Lee in particular: I suggest testing feed in mags, feed up the ramp. There is a sweet spot in seating this bullet but in auto pistols (to my experience) this aspect of finding that sweet COAL is discovery learning.

I do not own a XD which is a top tier pistol but its had some feeding issues with cast bullets which has been discussed on this forum in the past, maybe you can find those threads or other owners can lend you some advice.

I will let experts comment if going below 1.220 is wise or not. If it were me, I would decrease powder charge at that COAL and then work up the load when I did find the COAL that works well.

I am sure there is a solution, as said, the XD is a top shelf item in quality.

[Whistler]

A lot of people report trouble with this bullet in autos. I find it to be as made for the .45 ACP-revolvers (S&W 25, 625 etc) where they work flawlessly. I would go with the RCBS or Lyman 230 RN if that weight and shape is needed.

In my 1911 I use the 255gn flat nose for heavy work and the 200gn SWC for target.

[milprileb]

I can understand what Whistler says here. The Lee ogive is problematic but once I got COAL right, it was very very accurate. The Lyman 225 RN never gave me feeding issues after the sweet COAL was determined but its never and I mean like 30 yrs of Never... Never been accurate in any of my 1911 pistols. Neither the Lee or the Lyman bullet design dupicates the GI hardball bullet and thats the issue. I think the reason the Lee bullet is more accurate over the Lyman design is its got more bearing surface than the Lyman design. I greased up and stored my Lyman 228 RN mold, no use suffering with poor accuracy and a 4 cavity slow mold when a light Lee 6 cavity RN design mold is fast, easy to use and drops bullets that can be loaded to shoot accurate.

I absolutely think the Lee 228 RN has grease groves that are too shallow and marginal at best. I think it would do far better if it had deeper
grooves like a Lyman. However, I find Carnuba Red from White Label (aka LARS, aka Glen) will hold in the Lee grooves and keep any leading
from happening.

[gasboffer]

Seat it deep enough to pass the plunk-test, and don't worry about over-all length. I've shot a lot of that bullet in an XDM with 5.9 231 or 9.3 Blu-dot.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I seat them short ( 1.205" OAL)
and use 4.3 gr. Titegroup (which is very near starting load).
it cycles in all my autos.
Jon

[Char-Gar]

Forget about the numbers. Load any 45 ACP bullet so that it will drop into the barrel and the base of the case is even with the end of the barrel hood. Use a good straight edge to see this. If the round will fit in the magazine, you are good to go.

Fretting about this COAL stuff is not a good use of your time.

[geargnasher]

Forget about the numbers. Load any 45 ACP bullet so that it will drop into the barrel and the base of the case is even with the end of the barrel hood. Use a good straight edge to see this. If the round will fit in the magazine, you are good to go.

Fretting about this COAL stuff is not a good use of your time.

+1. Somebody mentioned the "plunk test" for determining COAL using the barrel for a case gauge, that's the way to go. Unless you're riding the ragged edge of an overload, the .050" or so deeper you have to seat that particular boolit won't make that much difference.

IMO there are at least a dozen better boolit mould choices in current production for .45 ACP auto than the Lee 228-2R.

Gear

[trixter]

What I have found is that the 1R is a little problematic in my XDM .45ACP. I too started with the 'book' length and found that there were quite a few mis-loaded (would not chamber) cartridges. That really stumped me. I bought a box of factory loads, same #s and they would pass the plunk test just fine. So I started measuring. The single ogive boolits were starting into the lands and would jam the gun. Some of them would even pull the boolit out of the case when ejected and then there was the mess to clean up. The 2 ogive boolits would work just fine.

So the only solution was shorten the COAL until they would pass the plunk test, and fall out accordingly. It sure produces some very short looking cartridges; however the seem to make holes in paper just fine. I also have a 200gr SWC mold that has been getting more of a workout. When I started all of this about a year ago, I was given a 2 cavity Lee mold that produces 150 gr SWC boolits and I have been playing with them too.
This is just more fun than a man ought to be able to have.

[trixter]

IMO there are at least a dozen better boolit mould choices in current production for .45 ACP auto than the Lee 228-2R.

Gear

Not trying to be picking on you, but did you mean 1R, cause I think a 2R would work great.

Thanks

[Ben]

There seems to be the logic going that there is a " magical " OAL for loaded rounds in all calibers.

NOT SO ! !

Each firearm is different, one has to experiment to find the proper OAL for a given bullet in your particular weapon.

[fredj338]

What I have found is that the 1R is a little problematic in my XDM .45ACP. I too started with the 'book' length and found that there were quite a few mis-loaded (would not chamber) cartridges. .

That is the point, there realy is no "book length" for this bullet or any bullet IMO. They all must fit your gun. Book OAL is a suggestion, in some trest platforms, like Lyman Univ reciever, it means almost nothing to you other than when approaching max data.

[Char-Gar]

I have been at this reloading game for over 50 years and I have never paid any attention to the "book length". Be it rifle or pistol, I always fit the round the the firearm. So, I am a little befuddled about the folks showing up here with COAL issues. After the bullet was seated for the firearm, if the loaded round would function through he firearm, I was good to go. I do measure the OAL of the round and record that number, so I can duplicate the load.

[fredj338]

I have been at this reloading game for over 50 years and I have never paid any attention to the "book length". Be it rifle or pistol, I always fit the round the the firearm. So, I am a little befuddled about the folks showing up here with COAL issues. After the bullet was seated for the firearm, if the loaded round would function through he firearm, I was good to go. I do measure the OAL of the round and record that number, so I can duplicate the load.

Too many noobs just reading the book data & trying to duplicate the results w/o understanding the process. OAL used to not even be mentioned in older manuals. It was assumed you fit the bullet to the barrel. Then the 40 came out & people started getting KB w/ high pressure rounds seated too deep w/ powders too fast for the application. Now we have vague OAL ref in manuals, but one needs to understand what the info means.

[tacofrank]

Great info ! I just got this Lee 6 cavity mold in the mail yesterday. Hoping to use it in a couple of 1911's and and old S&W 1917.

[gray wolf]

and yes--you can over pressure a 45 A C P
I agree with what has been said about the new folks looking for magic numbers.
We have guide lines folks, little arrows in the road to help us find our way.
But no free rides, I still get a little miffed when I here
" hey I need a good load for my blank--blank--

[geargnasher]

Not trying to be picking on you, but did you mean 1R, cause I think a 2R would work great.

Thanks

Sorry, you're right, I meant the 1R, The 230-2R is the other one, it's a great boolit except for the stupid bevel base and microbands. My all-time favorite (naturally;)) is one I designed based on the excellent nose of the 230-2R. It has a 228-1R base and lube grooves with a 230-2R nose, plus a little meplat. It has the 452374 ogive and almost the same nose length, but a small meplat and a rebated nose like a SWC.

Lee's 228-1R is good for the .45 Colt revolvers, other than that I have no use for it because the nose profile is all screwed up to work in .45 ACP. By the time you cram it far enough into the case to chamber, it still is too fat at the root of the nose to not trip the slide lock lever on a Kimber (three different guns) because it rides forward in the magazine and pops up in just the wrong place when the slide cycles back. A .45 ACP is designed for a certain nose profile, and a certain nose length so it fits the magazine correctly and fits the chamber too.

If you want to see what it looks like, go to Accuratemolds dot com and look at #45-230L, that's the one.

Gear

[pastor]

i have that same mold and after several thousand rounds i have had very good luck with it, i seat mine at 1.215 over 3.5 gr of clays powder, it is a very accurate load and feeds great in a number of 45 autos