No Lube

[HEAD0001]

I cast a 525 grain 50 caliber bullet for my ML. I push it with 120 grains of 3F BP. I use the RCBS Hotchkiss? adjustable mold. I do not use any lube. I get 1 to 2 inch groups at 100 yards. I use pure lead, and clean between every shot. It is strictly a hunting load, I do not practice with this load, it is a thumper.

I do not use any lube on this bullet. Am I flirting with disaster? Tom.

[Buckshot]

.................Apparently not. There was an article a few years back about lubeless quick followup shots with ML'ers. I forget the make but it was some Hawken re-incarnation. There was one regular type round fired, then 2-3 more loaded as fast as possible with no lube and the all grouped pretty well. No cleaning between shots, either.

.............Buckshot

[Bass Ackward]

For decades my wife has been telling me that when I put on dress pants and a nice shirt that I OUGHT to wear a tie. Said I look naked without it. Well .... as silly as this sounds, that is what I would do here. A bullet just looks so much better dressed to kill so to speak.

If you want an intelligent answer, then what happens when you rub two metals together hard and you don't have any lube on them? I know that you are going to say but it's pure lead. Now imagine putting them under pressure and rubbing together where the soft one is confined all around and pushed hard from the back. (essentially increasing the hardness)

I would want .... some lube if it were me.

[3sixbits]

If you want an intelligent answer, then what happens when you rub two metals together hard and you don't have any lube on them? I know that you are going to say but it's pure lead. Now imagine putting them under pressure and rubbing together where the soft one is confined all around and pushed hard from the back. (essentially increasing the hardness)

I would want .... some lube if it were me.[/QUOTE]

I was under the mistaken impression that lead work softened and not work hardened?

[mooman76]

If you were having a problem, you wouldn't be getting groups like that. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[leftiye]

Until just now I'd never thought of it, but most ML loads don't use lube. Someone on another thread castigated me for using lube in a particular load in a ML. I was running an oiled patch down the bore after cleaning, loading, and seating the boolit. (It was a conical flat based boolit with no grooves, and it DID lead if you didn't lube it.) He said "muzzleloaders don't lead." Round balls of course are patched, and don't lead, but historically, minies weren't lubed either. I suspect that the black powder fouling keeps leading down, though it probably deforms boolits too. And as you said you're cleaning between shots. Soft pure lead doesn't work soften, so don't worry about that. You could do the oiled patch thing if you wanted and see if it helps or hurts.

[Bass Ackward]

I was under the mistaken impression that lead work softened and not work hardened?

Depends how much pressure you put behind it. Different malleability at different pressures even down a bore. Which is why most wear occurs at the throat / breech area first. In olden days muzzle loaders used to be refreshed which means putting tool marks in the bore again because it had worn smooth. Cause?

[HEAD0001]

The reason why I asked this question is simple-THE RECOIL IS BRUTAL. I was just wondering if no lube could be adding to this recoil? Or is this a stupid question? The reason I put up with this recoil is simple, accuracy and "killing" power. This load is devastating. I am open to any opinions.

I never thought about putting a small amount of oil in the barrel. I normally would patch the oil out.

As far as pressure is concerned. I imagine the pressure of 120 grains of 3F being ignited by a 209 would create alot of pressure. But how much pressure is a ????? to me. Thanks, Tom.

[mooman76]

525g bullet + 120g 3f = brutal recoil. Adding lube is not going make your recoil any easier! You could try some lube and see what it does but I'd be surprised if you saw any improvement!

[leftiye]

Yup! It WOULD kick like a mool! I noticed that Three FFF thang. I've stood behind a few 500 grain/120 FFg loads and that kicks too (probably less). As long as yer gun holds together, all that you have to worry about is if you can stand it. One suggestion go to a lighter pointed boolit with a hollow point, it'll range better, go faster, and kill about as well. Oh yeah, and it'll kick less.

Like Moo said, lube won't make it kick less - probably more as it'll increase velocity. How do you feel about recoil pads?

[waksupi]

No doubt, the recoil is brutal. You are shooting equivelent to a .50-120 Sharps. I've never known anyone who had one, that kept it long!

[jhalcott]

I know a few guys that play in the North& South skirmishers. They use a lube made from Lambs wax? and beeswax. They shoot mild loads in their guns ,mostly .577 enfields and minie balls .They only use about 60 grain charges.
Why would they use a lube IF it isn't needed.? Maybe it is TALLOW they use,been a while!

[redbear705]

I used to shoot alot of black powder at rendesvous and the concensus there was that 3fg burned faster and in some short rifles was quite accurate.

The 2fg was found to be slower burning and much more accurate in the loong guns....something about less recoil and a more controllable push to the bullet then the hard impact of the recoil using 3fg.

They were only using patched round ball of different calibers but all of the shooters using 3fg would use LESS 3fg then a normal load of 2fg so that the pressure would not be excessive! And of course not burn the barrel out prematurely.:)


I have used both and have verified to myself that they (the old time shooters) were speaking the truth....when using patched round balls for accuracy.

Keep in mind you are using an explosive (black powder) to propell your projectile.......modern day powders are chemicals mixed together to create copius amounts of gas to propel your projectile which means to me...blackpowder kicks like a mule (esp 525gr bullet over 120gr 3fg!).

JR

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Put some bear fat on it and everything will be fine.:)