For the Older Casters - When Do I Stop?

[mongo-az]

Recently, while loading a batch of .45ACP with my favorite 230gr cast boolits, I realized after loading a batch of about 85 of them that I had over-charged them - I used 8.0gr of Bullseye, rather than 5.3 as I intended - somewhere in my stupid mind I equated the numbers on my RCBS bar-scale as decimals, rather than whole numbers.

Thankfully, these boo-boos never made it off my bench - but it does raise a good point. I've always been fanatically careful on powder charges - but as the Grim Reaper gets closer, I've noticed a trend to make stupid mistakes, that when I was younger, I would not have made.

So, the question then presents itself in my mind - if I did something like this, what would have happened if I had not caught it and shot those? Is there an age where I should stop handloading for safety's sake, and just use factory - given that advancing years does tend to bring on these occasional little boo-boos? Or am I just being paranoid?

Anyone ever been faced with that thought? (No flames please)

[Ickisrulz]

I am not old, but...

Would some kind of a safety checklist help?

These are often used during critical tasks to remind the operator of the steps required to perform a task.

You could make one that has you double checking powder type, charge to published standard, making sure each case is properly charged, etc.

[popper]

Stop when you don't wait for a cease-fire at the range. Trying to out-fox the reaper will keep your mind in great shape. Personally, I've made stupid mistakes all my life. Seriously, if you think you may be in the early stages of the old-timers illness, you may want to consider stopping, but you probably will forget where the keys are.

[koehn,jim]

The fact that you did catch it means you are not that bad. There will come a time but no one can decide for you/ I have always been anal according to my friends and will check the powder several times but i did that when I was in my twenties now in my late sixtys I still do. We all make mistakes and is this the first one you have made. The problem might be the scale or powder measure, are you having problems driving.

[gray wolf]

I also would suggest a check list and no distractions.
The question you ask is a very personnel one
decided and answered by us, a loved one or close friend.
It's like giving up the driver license ( kind of ) If I thought I would hurt myself or another I would have everything in the swap and sell.
Again a check list with nothing else on the bench and no one distracting you.
Double check everything.
If the mind is together this should work.
If you forget how to find the check list ( it's back to swap and sell )

[ShooterAZ]

That is a scary thought to consider. I had one boo-boo too, but thankfully I still have all ten fingers and my face. After this one boo-boo (a double charge), trust me, I will be incredibly careful, diligent,etc. I double check everything, then check it again. If I get some kind of hang-up with my progressive presses, I stop and remove all cases etc, clear everything and start over. Having something like this happen will really get your attention, to say the least.

[Piedmont]

If this worries you it makes a lot of sense to use a slower burning powder so that a double charge will overflow the case. THAT will get your attention.

[Bwana]

Sometimes it's not old age that can present a problem. Eleven and a half years ago I had a wreck (not an accident, a wreck) on my bicycle. Twenty mph, no helmet, was knocked out and broke my left collar bone. I don't remember about 10 minutes of time even though I was walking and talking. Fast forward six months after what appeared to be a total recovery. I started not being able to remember why I went from one room in the house to another. At work I would lock a door and get about five steps away and have to go back and check it to make sure it was locked. This rocked on for around two months and then went away. Scary as all get out. As long as I was engaged in an activity there were no problems unless I did something else while doing the original task. I did not cook during that time as I didn't want to forget the stove was on. So it isn't always old age.

[462]

Mongo,
Mistakes happen to all of us, regardless of age, so don't feel alone. I agree that a well thought out and easy to read checklist may help.

I read of a member who calls the name of the powder out loud, as he removes it from storage. The same could be done with primers and scale adjustment.

[max it]

ditto on 462.
doing things is what keeps me young.

good on ya' Mongo.

Max

[Lead Fred]

I shall rest when Im dead

something, something, from my cold dead hands

[geargnasher]

That is a tough one to consider. I have a lot of family history of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and think about it a lot, now my mother is starting to describe "episodes" of, for example, being in Lowe's shopping and suddenly, briefly, having no idea where she was, scary stuff. I never thought of it in terms of when to stop reloading, though, but I'm glad you brought it up. I would think that as long as you are aware that slip-ups are going to get more likely the more miles you put on your brain, you can stay one step ahead with a battery of precautions.

Every once in a while I catch myself in the middle of a mistake, and sometimes I have to just leave the room and go do something else for a few minutes to clear my head and "de-frag" the thoughts. Like I suspect many of us do, I reload in my "spare" time, which is often after supper on a tiring day, which is NOT the time I should be doing it. One reason I spend a lot of time here in the evenings is because I'm too wiped-out to be fooling with explosives.

One thing that might "fool proof" your loading practices is to start reworking as many of your loads as you can with IMR Trail Boss powder. While it's still possible to blow things up with Trail Boss, in a lot of calibers it isn't possible, and the case would be overflowing long before you got into dangerous territory. Developing a different routine, like asking someone else to verify the load out of your manual, compare it to boolit/bullet weight, cartridge designation, and verify that what's in the measure looks like it's supposed to look (maybe make a sample sheet of powders with a few grains of each under clear tape on a piece of paper?), and maybe even ask for assistance when returning powder to a container (one of my biggest fears of screwing up, using the right container but having previously dumped the wrong powder back into it) to prevent faux pas.

I think the real problem will come when it no longer occurs to us that it might be time to take up stamp collecting instead of shooting.

Gear

[mongo-az]

Thanks guys. I'll try the checklist to see if that helps. How I could intepret in my mind that the right side of the bar scale were decimals and not whole numbers is beyond me.

Thanks Bwana - I too about 20+ years ago got thrown from a horse at full gallop who then ran overtop of me - waking up in the hospital that night digging small stones out of the back of my head was something you don't forget - but I too became a linear thinker a few years after that - as long as I'm engaged in the task, I'm fine - anything that throws me off of it short-circuits my brain.

[kenyerian]

I'm 59 and have been handloading since I was 16 and I know what you mean about the lack of confidence now compared to when i was youger. I try to double check everything now and somtimes tripple check. My biggest concern would be making a mistake that would hurt some one else. Last night I caught myself starting to use 130 grain Boolits instead of the 100 grain ones. Good thing I double checked.

[462]

Another thing: Eliminate possible distractions.

I'm not a television watcher, so I don't have one in the casting/reloading area. Howver, there is a small stereo, but it's never on when I'm casting or reloading. Unless it's important, my wife leaves me alone. (Of course, there's a differing opinion of what is deemed to be important.) Thus, the only distraction I have is my wandering thoughts.

[jhrosier]

mongo-az,

It might help to get a digital scale to check your boolit weight and powder charge.
I would also take a minute to fill out a label for the cartridge box after setting the measure but before loading. Then, as a final check, look the load up in your manual and compare your label with the data in the manual.

It is not old age but carelessness bred of routine that we should all be concerned about.

Jack

[Beekeeper]

Mongo,
I also had a rude awakening such as you.
I changed my complete operation so that I complete one shell at a time.By that I mean powder and seat boolit one at a time
I use a powder measure and weigh every 5th charge to ensure it hasn't changed.
If there is any type of distraction, I stop, pour the powder charge I am working on back in the hopper and start again when the distraction is over.

Anal , maybe but I have not had a lookout moment since.

I think it is developing a system that lets you do what you love without any distractions and you will be OK.

Try to be as Anal as possible at it as you can until you develop a system and you will be OK.


The Best,
beekeeper

[mpmarty]

Well I'm 73 yrs old and am careful to only allow one powder on the bench at a time. I set and tripple check powder drops from my 550B and when they are all right on the mark I go ahead and load a bunch and then after thirty or forty rounds I again tripple check the powder measure for "drift" and have never had to adjust it. I load for numerous calibers and have about fifteen different powders I use and am comfortable with. I guess I'll quit when I die.

[runfiverun]

i started simplifying things long ago.
cutting down on powders.
using the same load in many cartridges with cast boolits and leaving the powder dump set up just for that one charge.
writing the load right on the tool heads for the dillon, so i can see them.
switching to an easy to read electronic scale.
i have a paper with my loads written down on it tacked to the wall right behind it.
and a note book with my loads in it on the shelf.

my primer tubes are all marked with the primer type in them, and they are only used for that primer.

the powder on the shelf has paper taped on the outward facing side with the powder written on it as well as the original label.

my powder dumps have the powder and the amount it's set for written on a tag right on the powder tube, even the one i don't change.

i am not overly old but i load and then don't for a while, or don't use some of the equipment for a while.
this way i don't have to remember what's- what. i can look and then verify.

[HighHook]

Open this link on Coconut Oil Touted as Alzheimer's Remedy...enjoy

http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/mp4/LJO190v1_WS

[olafhardt]

1. I never try to load many at once. 100 rounds is a whole lot for me.
2. I pick up a primed case, load it and set it down as a completcartridge
3. I am working out loads with dippers, Lee and homade.
4. I always loved the 22 and use it more.
5. I can afford some store bought so I do.
6. I don't push maximum loads.

[Beau Cassidy]

You can double check your powder charge all you want but until you start taking the average of 10 charges it will happen again. I try to empty my loaded round tray every 100 rounds.

[dbarnhart]

As I described it to someone the other day:

"Reloading is not inherently dangerous. It is however very unforgiving of any carelessness or neglect."

[fredj338]

True mistakes can happen but are rare. Lack of attention is THE #1 cause of accidents w/ reloaded ammo. I would suggest shorter loading sessions w/ no distractions. If you find you can't keep your focus of more than a copule minutes, it's time to give up reloading & shoot factory IMO, for your own safety. The use of a bulkier. slower pwoder like Unique will be easier to see over charges. I shun low volume powders for that reason. If it doesn't fill the case about half, I won't use it. BE is in that catagory. Move to WST, aobut 1.4x as much volem per garaing as BE, cleaner burning too.

[MikeS]

Sometimes it's not old age that can present a problem. Eleven and a half years ago I had a wreck (not an accident, a wreck) on my bicycle. Twenty mph, no helmet, was knocked out and broke my left collar bone. I don't remember about 10 minutes of time even though I was walking and talking. Fast forward six months after what appeared to be a total recovery. I started not being able to remember why I went from one room in the house to another. At work I would lock a door and get about five steps away and have to go back and check it to make sure it was locked. This rocked on for around two months and then went away. Scary as all get out. As long as I was engaged in an activity there were no problems unless I did something else while doing the original task. I did not cook during that time as I didn't want to forget the stove was on. So it isn't always old age.

Back in 2003 I had a couple of heart attacks (and they weren't my first), with the second one my heart stopped for almost a minute! Since that time I find that my memory is even worse than it originally was (and it was never my best feature). I can't begin to tell you how many times I'll leave the house, only to return for some forgotten item, or worse yet, because I don't remember if I closed the garage door! According to my doc, heart attacks take their toll on the memory, and the one where my heart stopped for as long as it did really made swiss cheese of my memory! Prior to that time I used to sell used Sun workstations on eBay, and I've probably installed Solaris (Sun's OS, a version of Unix) on over 100 machines using a network install setup, but now I don't have a clue how to do it! I also sometimes find while driving on neighborhood streets (ones I drive on every time I leave my house) that I'll look around, and not have a clue as to where I am, and it's only when I drive further down the road, and finally recognize something that I'll remember where I am.

Because of this memory loss, and one incident where I had a case that I didn't fill with powder (but I did know enough to check the barrel for a stuck boolit before shooting again!), that I'm very VERY careful while I reload!

I'm also finding that my memory loss is getting worse as time goes on, but knowing that I have memory loss helps me do things in a way that makes it harder to do something dangerous. For example, I keep all my powder in a closet, and only take a bottle out when I'm using it, and I keep the bottle of powder in a specific place, depending on which press I'm using, so I have less chance of accidentally putting powder into the wrong bottle (but even with this 'system' I double check before I pour powder back into a bottle).

[Ramar]

mongo-az,
Your not alone.

I’ve had similar concerns and asked the doctor when I should start worrying about the memory problems I’m having and change my dangerous life style (my sons’ opinions)? Doc’s answer, 10 years ago was, “ do you still remember how to tie your shoe laces?” So, every morning I tie my shoes with a smile and the thought that I have another great day coming.

I, too have been wacked on the ol’ coconut quite a few times in the past and even suffered amnesia after taking on an overweight fullback coming up the center hole. I’ve had 13 on road accidents with my Harley and only had one head injury. Sounds like a lot but that’s 50 years of biking.

Lately I load bp only; I think it’s safer and more enjoyable. I use the written word checklist along with my detailed instructions “how to” on everything.
Ramar

[captaint]

I have been loading for many years also. Anymore, 90% of my work is pistol ammo. So, most all of the work is with Titegroup, Clays, Red Dot. All of the charges are similar per caliber, so when I look in the case before I stick the boolit in, I know what I should see. That does simplify things. I like to stop and look at the beam scale one last time before I get adjusting the Uniflow, just to double check.

At least you caught the mistake. Guess I'll think about stopping if I blow something up. Hopefully, not me or anyone else!!! enjoy Mike

[adrians]

Being 50 something now things are getting a little harder to remember and things are getting easier to forget.
A case in point ,,not too long ago had my powder measures ,which were dedicated to certain powders ,,, Uniflow #1 is set up with Unique,, Uniflow #2 is filled with 2400,, and my #55 is for Red dot, all set ,good to go.
A while back i walked in the loading room to put together some cartridges using unique , i could not remember which measure was unique .
I was blown away (so to speak) i had been using this system forever without a problem .
now they are clearly marked whats what.
i don't mind getting older but sometimes it turns around and bites ya.
label,,check ,,,double check and check again ,thats my solution to this unstoppable force of nature.. :evil:[smilie=b::twisted:

[ku4hx]

Well I'm 73 yrs old and am careful to only allow one powder on the bench at a time. I set and tripple check powder drops from my 550B and when they are all right on the mark I go ahead and load a bunch and then after thirty or forty rounds I again tripple check the powder measure for "drift" and have never had to adjust it. I load for numerous calibers and have about fifteen different powders I use and am comfortable with. I guess I'll quit when I die.

I'll be 66 next month and I'm with you; I'm a "Measure twice; cut once" sort of guy. The only problems I have are less flexibility and a little more joint and muscle pain. I have what my Ophthalmologist calls "second Sight". My sight has gotten steadily better in the last few years such that now I'm essentially 20/20 in both eyes. But that's because of cataracts but that's not all bad. When surgery is called for, I get to pick my focal length for each eye!

My wife and I have a deal, we watch each other for changes (mental, physical and spiritual) that might signify trouble. She's a shooter too so she's helping me to keep an eye on myself. She's younger than I am by a few years.

But, I've made a few casting/loading changes. Two hours casting is about all my back can stand and batches of 100 rounds is pretty standard for loading. I feel I need to recheck things more often and as long as I can have that mental state, and work it that way, I'll cast and load as long as I and my wife think I'm doing it safely.

[Papa smurf]

I am just too old to think about it . Good Shooting ----------------Papa Smurf

[RevGeo]

I too have simplified my loading now that I'm 'older', as they say. I use powder dippers exclusively and assemble cartridges one at a time. I usually load for rifle so I don't make hundreds of rounds at at time.
I find myself forgetting simple words once in a while, often while posting on forums such as this one. I find staying active definitely helps and that includes reading and writing stuff on forums.
I suppose a checklist would be a good idea, but I'd probably forget where I put it.

[Wayne Smith]

I have both an RCBS and a Lyman scale. RCBS is 10 grains in every line, Lyman is 5 grains. When I confused them it was in the right direction, but none the less scared me. I now pay very close attention to each step of the process and question all my assumptions - at least until I get over being scared! It's been about a year, and I'm still cautious.

I learned that Unique bridges in all of my powder measures except my B&M, it has become my go to measure.

[stocker]

Wayne: I had the identical situation with my old scale and my new RCBS. I could foresee future brain pharts if I got sloppy. I pasted a label on the RCBS base that reads: "Main beam has 10grain increments". Been there for at least 10 years now and I probably could remove it as I'm fully accustomed to the scale, but, why?

[Huntducks]

Mongo-az

I just turned 64 and have been loading since I was 10 (shotshells) boy the memory aint what it use to be, got around the corner a number of times and said did I close the garage door (damn thought it was just me):bigsmyl2:

I have my little routine that I go thru powder comes out from under my bench and sits in the open, I then double check my load which I have my own small book with all the info that I wrote in, then I check it in a loading manual like a Lyman just making sure i'm between min and max charge, if i'm using a dillon press I put a lable on the powder measure with powder name and charge wt. then I kick back in my chair drink a bottle of soda or water and think about it set the PM and dump 5 straight cases before I weight 5 straight.

If i'm using a SS press and just a scale I use a lee dipper and weight every charge and load 1 case at a time.

If i'm using a PM again lable on measure then drop 5 straight charges the 1 I weight until I get PM set, then I drop 20 cases with powder look inside everyone and pull random cases and weight powder maybe 5 out of the 20 as i'm charging each case with the PM i'm counting out 1-2-3 and so on until I hit 20 I always space my cases in the loading tray so as there not next to each other.

You will do just fine take your time and there is no race going on, load a bit kick back clear your mind.

[Cadillo]

As long as you can trust yourself to drive a car, you can reload. Get yourself a good electronic scale. If you can read a speedometer, you can read the scale reading correctly.

[mongo-az]

Thanks all....

Looks like we are all pretty much in the same boat. Since I only load about 6-7 calibers anyway, I'll make up a Master sheet for those and switch to an electronic scale. Thanks again!

[Mk42gunner]

I'm 47 and still see fine at longer distances, but not up close. I find myself really paying attention when doing critical things like setting scale counterbalances; some of those numbers are harder than others to read (an oxidized micrometer adjustment on an RCBS 5-10 scale for instance).

I have always been kind of leary about getting a scale or powder measure set correctly; so I have had a set of scale check weights for a couple of decades.

If I count out the correct number of weights to eqaul the desired charge, and the beam balances; I am fairly confident the charge is right. It also gives me a second chance to catch a discrepancy like this.

In my opinion, only you or (possibly) your family can tell when it is time to pass your press on and quit loading your own ammo. At least you caght your mistake.

Robert

[Bassleg]

I am in my mid 50's and I find that there are good days and not so go days so I load only if its a good day and run the table saw and that kind of stuff and on not so goods days I do other thing like work in the garden.

[Swede44mag]

Mongo I will stop casting and reloading when I can no longer buy lead or components.
I use a digital scale it helps and is faster.
.

[Char-Gar]

If the Auto Insurance people are to be believed, Males 65 and older have the same risk level as males under 25. We are not loosing our marbles, just find it more difficult to stay focused and on task. Half or more of winning that battle is being aware that it is going on.

I don't think there is any time we need to stop loading, but there is most certainly a time when we need to pay more attention to routine tasks knowing we can drop the ball, if we don't take extra care. Check..doublecheck and then check again. This applies to just about everything in life.

I will turn 70 in July and this is my story as well. Stay focused and don't turn into Mr. McGoo!

[45 2.1]

Its quite simple......... use things that can't mess up. I tend to use the RCBS Little Dandy powder measure with 28 rotors that never change volume....... with a charge chart covered in plastic stapled to a wall by where I load. Now all you have to worry about is the proper powder and what charge your supposed to use. If we can't handle that, then its time to do something else.

[fecmech]

About 90% of my loading is pistol on a progressive press and I'm changing powders fairly often as I switch between .357 and .38 spl loads. Fortunately I use bushings in my Auto Champs so I have a piece of masking tape vertical on the powder hopper. When I change the bushing or powder I cross out the bushing and powder from the one before and mark the new one on the tape. That way I know what's in the hopper and the load it throws. I have a card that lists all my bushings and the powder weights each one throws. I'm 69 and I need to pay a lot more attention than I used to!

[youngda9]

Dang, reading all of these getting old stories is depressing. I guess it beats the alternative though.

[hickfu]

I have big signs that I hang in front of me when I load a certain cartridge the sign with powder charge I want is right there in front of me, I also weigh every single powder charge on a digital scale after calibrating it. After 10 or 20 rounds I recalibrate and test a few at random. It may take me a while to make the bullets but I'm out there for stress relief and I like to make sure that every charge is exact (I don't even like the .1 differences)


Doc

[303Guy]

... but as the Grim Reaper gets closer, I've noticed a trend to make stupid mistakes, ...I am by nature chronically prone to absent-minded boo boos - even when I was younger. I've built into my habits checks and cross-checks to get by safely. I've made rules I live by and cannot/will not deviate from so as to maintain the habits without thinking. Saved my neck many times! I make fewer driving errors than most folks but it does take an anal approach to following self taught habits. I've only locked my keys in my car twice in the last twenty years and I no longer lock myself out the house - I finally learned to never lock the door without the keys in my hand (I got tired of climbing in through the laundry window:roll:!) Same with the car - I only lock it with the keys, no exceptions (it's and old car and doesn't have a remote locking gizmo).

Overloading a pistol - well yes, I've done that when I was much younger. I actually damaged my gun before the penny dropped! I de-burred the damage then solved the problem by skimming off the noses of the boolits to suite the powder charge. Those worked pretty good and I kept the gun loaded with those for self defence. It was just a wooden holder I could run through the drill press with a wood cutting bit. The loaded cartridge went in from underneath to hold it firm for a true cut. They shot accurately. The damage to the gun was not critical.


I started not being able to remember why I went from one room in the house to another.Been like that all my life.:violin: