Shooting black tipped 30-06 to get brass

[DonMountain]

I have an old military ammo box filled with 30-06 ammo on machine gun links that I bought real cheap about 20 years ago. I fired a few of them through an M1 Garand until I found out they passed completely through the 14" diameter tree I was using as a target, without expansion. They are Lake City marked. Now that I am getting real short of brass for 8x57 Mauser, 7.63 Argentine and such, I wonder if its appropriate to try to do something to get this brass for use. Should I shoot it and does it wear barrels more than regular J bullets? Or should I attempt to dissasemble it somehow and throw the bullets away? Or are the military cases just too hard to deal with?

[ShooterAZ]

Check the date, if it earlier than LC52 it is probably corrosive. No big deal, just clean accordingly. I would just shoot it. AP will not wear your barrel any more than normal, and in fact more often than not be more accurate than M2 Ball. LC brass is excellent for reloading, but primer pocket crimp will need to be removed. I have the Dillon "Super Swager" which works perfectly for this. If you don't want to shoot it, you can always pull them down.

Shooter

[Jailer]

Sounds like AP rounds. Pull the bullets and sell them and keep the brass.

[Larry Gibson]

I suggest your break it down and make the 8x57 out of the unfired cases. It will form easier/better. You can also use the powder, especially if it is the extruded 4895, in the 8x57 loads whether jacketed or cast.

PM sent.

Larry Gibson

[elk hunter]

Your black tipped ammo is "armor piercing" and if it is later non-corrosive it is worth $1.00 per round and can be readily sold. If it is earlier corrosive primed then you can shoot it at a safe backstop or pull the bullets pop the primers, but be sure to clean your rifle correctly to remove the corrosive salts so you don't rust the bore of your rifle.

As for shooting it the copper jacket pretty well insulates the bore from the hard core.

You can probably trade it for brass to a collector.

I've heard that some states restrict the possession and use of that type of ammo so you might want to check before advertising it for sale.

[BruceB]

Before you do ANYTHING with this AP ammo, check around on the 'net.

I have seen the AP selling at a gunshow for over $3 PER ROUND, so you may have considerable value there.

Do a bit of research; you may be pleasantly surprised.

[Shiloh]

Saw the web section of a piece of train rail severely chewed up by black tip AP.
Some went through, some made huge craters and pooched out the back of the rail.

I have a few rounds of black AP, both red and orange tracer, silver which is another kind of AP, and
yellow.

Haven't seen any of this for sale in years. Is yours copper jacketed or magnetic copper plated steel
jacket?? Folks have said there is no damage from steel jackets as they are soft steel, but I won't put any through my barrels. It is one thing when Uncle Sugar is paying for barrels or if I am.

Shiloh

[garandsrus]

DonMountain,

I will trade you empty once fired HXP or LC brass or LC non-AP rounds for your AP rounds. If interested, send me a PM with an offer.

I have some 8mm ammo I would swap also. It is non-corrosive and on stripper clips, but berdan primed. I would need to check the crate for more details.

Thanks,
John

[DonMountain]

I got the casings mixed up and was going by the LC on casings I had shot already in a bag. I pulled out the box of black tipped ammo on metal machine gun belt links, and the headstamp is: 53 on top and TW on the bottom. So I don't even know if they are boxer primed or some foreign made ammo with berdan primers. I will have to see if I can find a 30-06 rifle to fire one. But now I assume that it is a corrosive primer? And if the 53 is the date for 1953, thats almost 60 years old! I am not sure I want to deal with casings or ammo that ancient. Looks like dump material to me. :sad:

[DonMountain]

Haven't seen any of this for sale in years. Is yours copper jacketed or magnetic copper plated steel
jacket?? Folks have said there is no damage from steel jackets as they are soft steel, but I won't put any through my barrels. It is one thing when Uncle Sugar is paying for barrels or if I am.

Shiloh

The head stamp reads 53 on top and TW on the bottom so they are not LC or Lake City brass. I made a mistake and looked at some I had shot years ago. They are brass cases that look good and non magnetic cases. The black tipped bullet is definately attracted to a magnet hard. The primers are crimped in and also of a brass color and non magnetic. The bullet looks to be copper jacket over a steel core. Crimped in pretty hard. I am not sure I can pull the bullets with my hammer type puller.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I got the casings mixed up and was going by the LC on casings I had shot already in a bag. I pulled out the box of black tipped ammo on metal machine gun belt links, and the headstamp is: 53 on top and TW on the bottom. So I don't even know if they are boxer primed or some foreign made ammo with berdan primers. I will have to see if I can find a 30-06 rifle to fire one. But now I assume that it is a corrosive primer? And if the 53 is the date for 1953, thats almost 60 years old! I am not sure I want to deal with casings or ammo that ancient. Looks like dump material to me. :sad:



TW is Twin Cities Ordance Plant manfacture and the 53 is the year made, so this is U.S. arsenal made ammo. It is very probably non-corrosive and is safe to shoot. I have and shoot brass older than this with few problems. As has been posted above this is worth serious money to sell either as just pulled bullets and empty brass or as is loaded on the MG belt. I wouldn`t just "dump" these rounds to be rid of them, there is a dollar or three to be made from them in trade or sales.Robert

[master caster]

I would also do you a trade for your ammo. id buy some new brass in trade for your linked ammo. I also have pay pal if that helps.

[ShooterAZ]

TW 53 in non corrosive. In the last few years the CMP sold a BUNCH of AP ammo (mixed headstamps), the real value may not be as much as some are quoting. I guess the value is whatever you can get. I have a lot of LC AP, as well as thousands of pulled projos.

[Char-Gar]

"Back in the day", I fired many thousand rounds of USGI black tipped (AP) rounds though rifles, with zero damage to the barrel beyond what would be normal wear. There is a thick jacket surrounding a tungsten core. The hard core never touches the inside of the barrel. I have picked up many of these cores on the ground after impact. They made good center punches.

I don't know about the value of this stuff now-a-days. It was free to me back then. It came in 250 round linked belt with every 6th or 7th round a tracer. I did not fire the tracer rounds. The ammo I fired was mostly LC-54. It was as accurate as regular USGI ball ammo.

[Bullet Caster]

Well, for my 2 centavos worth. I've got some .30-06 brass that are dated 1939 and I fired this old ammo, some from WWII and some from Korea. They all had crimped primers but are all boxer primed. After firing the ones that would go off, I pulled the ones that wouldn't. Two cases I had to throw away, 'cause after I fired 'em the cases disintegrated. Most of 'em with gunk around the primer are the ones that wouldn't fire. I used a hammer style RCBS bullet puller and it usually took about 3 sometimes 4 whacks on a concrete floor to dislodge the projectile and powder from the round. After cleaning in a hot citric acid bath, they get cleaned with soap and water and rinsed very well in hot water. I also use a .30 cal. bore brush inside the cases to get 'em clean. I then anneal all the old military case necks with my Bernz-O-Matic, then polish the brass with drill and steel wool or a 3M Scotch-Brite pad. The off brands are thicker and work better, though. They are separated into groups that have been annealed and groups that have not been annealed but will need annealing after the next firing. BC

[Char-Gar]

I am still shooting a lot of 40 FA 02 (Frankford Arsenal 1902) 30-40 brass. They use standard boxer primers and I keep the loads mild cast bullets. I did anneal the necks once.

I also have a lot of mid-20s WRA 30 US (30-40) that I bought as NOS primed brass in original 20round boxes. I removed and deep sixed the factory Winchester primers. There are 240 of these cases and they are in regular use for cast bullet loads in my Krags. In 4 or 5 loadings I have not lost a case.

[DonMountain]

TW is Twin Cities Ordance Plant manfacture and the 53 is the year made, so this is U.S. arsenal made ammo. It is very probably non-corrosive and is safe to shoot. I have and shoot brass older than this with few problems. As has been posted above this is worth serious money to sell either as just pulled bullets and empty brass or as is loaded on the MG belt. I wouldn`t just "dump" these rounds to be rid of them, there is a dollar or three to be made from them in trade or sales.Robert

But how would I sell this sort of live ammo? I don't know anybody that would want it. Or pay me a bunch for it. And unless they live close enough to drive over and get it, I probably couldn't mail it. So, saying someone paid $3 a round for it from a gun show in Texas doesn't get that for me here in Mid-Missouri. Gas to drive over there would eat up the profits. :groner:

[oneokie]

But how would I sell this sort of live ammo? I don't know anybody that would want it. Or pay me a bunch for it. And unless they live close enough to drive over and get it, I probably couldn't mail it. So, saying someone paid $3 a round for it from a gun show in Texas doesn't get that for me here in Mid-Missouri. Gas to drive over there would eat up the profits. :groner:

Ship it UPS or FedEx as ORM-D; small arms ammunition.

[DLCTEX]

You can ship it through UPS with a "Small Arms Ord." label. I think the last I shipped a few years ago cost $15 to ship.

[garandsrus]

DonMountain,

Shipping ammo is not a big deal as was mentioned. As long as you attach the ORM-D sticker to the box, no problem. You will need to go to a UPS facility. USPS is a definite no-no.

Here's a link to a sticker. Simply print it out on your PC and tape it to the box. You could mail it in the ammo can also. I have received surplus ammo that way before.

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/public/91j0DxJ8WVcQObw7p9LPZ0abfpw6lDAmRbSAIXTr5_HaIVf6q3 9Uf9B87RtPOMZwjLIbYHieG7TgI2mMvl1lg3GDsqj8l62_n2Io BLMHKNDDkJ5p2nhPbk2Sh7QUMpuqJta5INJItU-PmR_2

John

[Hardcast416taylor]

The above posters beat me to it as to answering your shipping question.

Interesting old story about inter-service rivalries and shooting matches. It has been said the Marines would polish the black paint from the AP ammo tips and shoot this in matches. It was often said this AP ammo was more accurate thru an M-1 than the standard ball ammo. After the Marines were caught doing this little trick to beat the "doggies" all ammo that was used in matches was issued the day of the match to be all the same.Robert

[DonMountain]

And why would anybody be interested in buying armor piercing ammo? I got it by mistake and then never did anything with it. What would anybody use it for? Modern, carefully loaded and sized cartridges would be far more accurate than any old military armor piercing stuff loaded that long ago? And I have a whole can of the stuff? It might be cool for a kid to shoot a few through some steel plate or something, but you wouldn't want to just take it to the range and shoot targets with it. Although when I was a kid I did shoot one clean through an old engine block in a rusted out car behind the barn. But what I really would like to have is some brand new Winchester or Remington rifle brass in 8x57 Mauser. I counted them and I have 148 of them on links. :drinks:

[Char-Gar]

Don..You would use it for any purpose you would use regular USGI ball ammo. It is not less accurate or more accurate. You don't have to shoot steel or wood with it, paper targets will do just fine. Like all ammo, just make certain you have a good backstop. I shot many many targets with many thousands of round of this AP stuff.

Depending on how it has been stored, ammo that age may be just as good as fresh stuff. I am shooting a large lot of LC 67 7.62 rounds, that will often time give better accuracy than fresh commercial ammo.

[Wolfer]

Many years ago my uncle in law told a story. They were trying to knock a hole in an old cellar to make into a septic tank. They had beat on the 8 inch thick concrete with a pick for some time to no avail. His dad went to the house and got his 06 and a handful of APs. Every shot went through but it took 8 shots to round the hole out enough for a 4 inch pipe.

When you live in the sticks you learn to think outside the box.

[jah141]

And why would anybody be interested in buying armor piercing ammo? I got it by mistake and then never did anything with it. What would anybody use it for? Modern, carefully loaded and sized cartridges would be far more accurate than any old military armor piercing stuff loaded that long ago? And I have a whole can of the stuff? It might be cool for a kid to shoot a few through some steel plate or something, but you wouldn't want to just take it to the range and shoot targets with it. Although when I was a kid I did shoot one clean through an old engine block in a rusted out car behind the barn. But what I really would like to have is some brand new Winchester or Remington rifle brass in 8x57 Mauser. I counted them and I have 148 of them on links. :drinks:

If you wanted to trade I have once fired 30-06 Brass if you want to ship let me know how much brass you would want to trade for.

[snuffy]

Saw the web section of a piece of train rail severely chewed up by black tip AP.
Some went through, some made huge craters and pooched out the back of the rail.

I heard of somebody was killed trying to punch through a rail road rail. Seems the bullet hit high, did a "U" turn hit him in the forehead.

We've all seen the video of that fool shooting a 50 BMG at something hard, the bullet took his ear phone type hearing protection off his left ear.

I suspect that the "preppers" are looking for AP ammo and bullets for that last ditch shoot through whatever they throw at us scenario.

[johnpineal]

I like to have a few ap's around for those deer who hide behind trees. Would you sell me a few?

[gwpercle]

The black tipped are armor piercing, before I found out what they were I shot about 200 through my 1903-A3, years ago. They are not corrosive but the primers are crimped in place. A buddy , who was a police officer , traded me 10 rounds of regular factory ammo for each round of AP. He wanted them for use in road blocks, they would shoot through an automobile engine and disable it, the regular ammo would not do this.

I am sure someone out there will buy / trade you whatever you want for the AP stuff. It's probably not even legal in some states for us common folks to own such terrible things. But I did keep 2 boxes of the stuff for my ammo collection.

Except for the hassel of removing the crimped in primer , then removing the crimp from around the primer pocket, the brass is very good and I'm still using the first batch to reload cast boolits in my 03-A3. Thats been at least 20 or 25 reloads with only a few neck crack failures.