Ruger 45 colt---can this be done ?

[gray wolf]

Howdy men,
You all know more about the 45 colt than I do so here is a question.
My friend needs black bear protection while working on a river.
He has a Ruger super black hawk in 45 colt but does not reload.
I reload but can't help cause I don't do that cartridge.
it has been my understanding that factory Ammo for the 45 Colt is all down loaded as to not blow up old guns. Is there any factor Ammo
available that would be suitable for black bear in the 2 to 300 pound class
What say you on this one ?

[jblee10]

Check out Buffalo Bore ammo. They make 45 Colt +P loads, one of which is a 300gr at 1200fps.

[Alvarez Kelly]

First, let me say I have no first hand experience, but I think 45 Colt is a pretty small cartridge for an up close bear encounter. I would want more gun.

But I second looking into Buffalo Bear ammo choices. I would also recommend you have your friend test fire/sight it in real well. He needs to know how it'll feel. Buffalo Bear makes some MAXIMUM load ammo. It'll get your attention.

[DeanWinchester]

I've played with some of John Linebaugh's data. I've pushed a 300g RNFP close to 1300FPS. The opinion of needing more gun........If you put it where they need to go, they will work. If you can't put the shot where it needs to go, maybe one should consider staying out of bear country until said skills are developed.


The Buffalo Bore +P loads will work just fine. They are hotter than a firecracker!!

[gray wolf]

OK this is not sounding so good for the friend and better for the bears.
I think he would be better off with a 44 mag, isn't the off the shelf choice for ammo better in the 44 mag ? if so what would be recommended ?
Here I am a self professed gun guru and I can't answer these questions.
Thank goodness for the forum.

[DCM]

+1 on buffalo bore ammo. Hot stuff! I have tried it in a couple of calibers.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=38 45Colt

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=48 44 mag

Take a good look at the specs. for each. These would be my first choices for these calibers/game.

[runfiverun]

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/23449
this would work for black bears.

[RayinNH]

If he has a .45 Colt stay with that. A hot loaded .45 Colt will smack every bit as hard as a .44 magnum will, and at lower pressure. The Buffalo Bore ammo would be considered hot loaded. It's not at all pleasant to shoot...Ray

[white eagle]

the 44 magnum has killed probably all that can be killed with a handgun
If I were to use a 44 mag I would definitely go with a heavy cast load
like 300 gr or so
in my humble opinion the 44 outshines the colt handily

[Lefty SRH]

Another one for Buffalo Bore and heavy hard cast bullets

[gandydancer]

If he has a .45 Colt stay with that. A hot loaded .45 Colt will smack every bit as hard as a .44 magnum will, and at lower pressure. The Buffalo Bore ammo would be considered hot loaded. It's not at all pleasant to shoot...Ray
RayinNH Has got it right stick with the 45 colt and the buffalo ammo. you can't go wrong with that combo.as for the Black bears leave them alone and they will leave you alone. If they have cubs then be on the alert. I have run into bear many times in both Maine and Penn and they were as scared of me as I was of them. and most of the time I never seen them but I would hear them if I got to close they would let me know to back off and to get. GD

PS The Ruger in 45 colt with hand loads and some factory ammo IMO will do any thing the 44 mag will do and do it a little better. But to be fair there is nothing wrong with a 44 mag. I like them both.

[jblee10]

If he already has a 45 I wouldn't switch to the skinny little 44, ha, ha. I think a heavy bullet 45 will do anything the heavy bullet 44 will do.

[gray wolf]

As for me ? --I agree to leave them alone.
OK so it looks like if I recommend the B B ammo in 45 colt with the heavy lead bullets he should be OK.
Fact is if he starts out with a box of 20 rounds and is worried about black bears
he will probly wind up with 20 rounds in a box.
I have stood on my deck with a black bear on the lawn eating my bird seed
15 feet away. I had to slow pitch a log at it in order for it to leave.
I would never try to push any bears buttons or challenge one.
I do believe that left a choice a BB would rather flight than fight.
Rogue animals excluded/ Bears with fur kids excluded.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
If he is working on a river is he in a boat? And if in a boat why not also have handy a 12 guage pump with a good solid slug load or round ball? I shoot 45 Colt in RBH. The 300 grainers are fine 45 Colt loads but I would 10x rather have my Mossy pump with 5 rounds of .685 up to .735 Round ball at 1550 fps. Carry the RBH in a holster but always have the Mossy close by in a good retaining systen easily accesable.
Mike in Peru

[nicholst55]

Greetings
If he is working on a river is he in a boat? And if in a boat why not also have handy a 12 guage pump with a good solid slug load or round ball? I shoot 45 Colt in RBH. The 300 grainers are fine 45 Colt loads but I would 10x rather have my Mossy pump with 5 rounds of .685 up to .735 Round ball at 1550 fps. Carry the RBH in a holster but always have the Mossy close by in a good retaining systen easily accesable.
Mike in Peru

Absolutely agreed - the best handgun for bear defense is a long gun! A 12 gauge pump loaded with slugs or a .30-06 or larger would be my preferred options. If I couldn't keep a long gun available, then either the .44 or .45 with heavy-for-caliber bullets (read: over 300 grains). Don't forget to shoot enough of your bear-defense load to become proficient with it, regardless of what it is.

[AkMike]

Is he working alone? Anyone around at all?
If he's consintrationg on something he won't hear it coming to start with. They're pretty quiet.

[troy_mclure]

The super Blackhawk is a strong enough gun to take really hot .45lc rounds, hot enoygh to exceed what the same gun in .44 mag can throw out.

[zac0419]

Also check Grizzly cartridge

http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=45colt

and Doubletap who now sells a 360gr hardcast.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_38

I've had good results with BB, Grizzly, and DT.

[429421Cowboy]

Buffalo Bore 340 gr +P+ hard cast gas checked at 1450fps is what i choose to carry in my .44 mag in grizzly country, they sell .45 Colt ammo (Ruger only!!) that will meet those numbers easily, and make 99% of factory .45 Colt ammo look sickly compared. The 125 year old .45 will do everything with modern brass and powder that the .44 can and then some! The .45 is a handloaders dream, but recently those who don't handload have caught a bit of a break with the Judge and the Ruger SBH Hunter gaining popularity, which has lead to great leaps and bounds in factory "designer" .45 Colt ammo. HSM (Made in Montana!) offers what they call their "Bear load" in .45 Colt (325 GC at 1150 fps) which will probably be the cheapest and could plow the length of most any black bear, Double Tap and Cor-bon both offer +P .45 loads, as does the afore mentioned Buffalo Bore (also Made in Montana!). I would never feel under gunned with a Ruger .45 in bear country with the right handloads or any of the factory ammo listed above.

[starmac]

Didn't this start out talking about 2 to 300 pound black bears. There is no need for a gun, just tell him to jump in the river and swim. Any bear wearing that much armor plate will drown trying to get to him. LOL

[pdawg_shooter]

Greetings
If he is working on a river is he in a boat? And if in a boat why not also have handy a 12 guage pump with a good solid slug load or round ball? I shoot 45 Colt in RBH. The 300 grainers are fine 45 Colt loads but I would 10x rather have my Mossy pump with 5 rounds of .685 up to .735 Round ball at 1550 fps. Carry the RBH in a holster but always have the Mossy close by in a good retaining systen easily accesable.
Mike in Peru

Keep that shotgun clean and dry and moss wont grow on it!

[runfiverun]

holy cow 360 gr 45 colt rounds.
the guy needs something he can shoot with some confidence.
keep him in the 250 gr area.
i have a 45 colt black hawk and holding onto 454424's and 9.5 grs of unique is a chore.
a 360 gr +p+ would be a one and done deal [mainly because i would be looking for the revolver]
look at the ones i linked to, at least he will be able to shoot them.
yeah they are expensive but they are barnes and copper so he can take them anywhere,and they will penetrate.

[429421Cowboy]

GRIZZLY 45 COLT +P 320gr PUNCH Price:$82.95/20 WTHeck? Did i read that right? :shock: I think i might rather shoot him twice than spend $4.14 a round!

[Mk42gunner]

Wasn't one of the original requirements for the .45 Colt to be able to put down a horse in combat?

I think his .45 will be fine for a 300 lb animal at conversational distances, with a good flat nosed boolit at around 1000 fps. My choice would be a 452424 with decent, but not overly hot loads.

Much better to be able to control the gun and shoot two or more times if needed than to get one round off because of recoil.

Since he doesn't reload, he would propably balk at buying enough boutique ammo to get profficient with it.

My personnal choice for a handgun in this scenario would be a double action, or even a 10mm Glock.

Robert

[bob208]

and to think the old guys used 250- 255 gr. lead bullets with 40 gr. of 2f and killed bears with it.

[gray wolf]

I don't think he can handle some of those very heavy hot loads.
We are not talking grizzly here, However he has shot a 29 smith 44 mag.
Factors are : noisy river, busy working, looking down, on or near the shore line or river bank. Busy collecting samples.
I would think a 250 grain lead flat point @ 1100 FPS would make a BB want to change direction. Is my thinking wrong ?

[Alvarez Kelly]

Many a bear has been killed with a .22 also, but I would not want to rely on one. This thread started out as a self defense question. Hunting a bear is different.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I don't think he can handle some of those very heavy hot loads.
We are not talking grizzly here, However he has shot a 29 smith 44 mag.
Factors are : noisy river, busy working, looking down, on or near the shore line or river bank. Busy collecting samples.
I would think a 250 grain lead flat point @ 1100 FPS would make a BB want to change direction. Is my thinking wrong ?

I don't think you are "wrong." As many have pointed out, the black bear will most likely move away from your friend, unless there are cubs involved.

Is he proficient at handling the Ruger?

[starmac]

I carry a 44, because I have always had one, but many actually like the 45 better. Bigger hole to let air in and bigger hole to let blood out. There is really not much more a guy can ask for.

[Kraschenbirn]

Last fall, just before deer season, I watched a shooting buddy...a quite experienced and proficient handgunner, I might add...attempt to sight in a 7 1/2" RBH using those Buffalo Bore +P .45s. By the second cylinder-full, he was flinching like a first-day-on-the-range newbie and his 25-yd groups were more like buckshot patterns. Dunno what's commercially available but I'd think something like 250-260 gr SWCs at around 1000-1100 fps would be adequate for about anything in the 200-300 lbs range...given reasonably decent shot placement, of course.

Bill

BTW...after giving up on those Buffalo Bore wrist-breakers, my shooting buddy went back to his 6" M29 Smith and filled both his permits with one-shot kills

[MtGun44]

I think that the normal 1000 fps LRNFP will be adequate for black bear if planted
in the right spot and will not be difficult to control. If necessary, load him up
20 rds of a Keith boolit in the 250 gr range at 1000 fps, like 9 gr of Unique and be
done with the whole thing. If he wants to practice with it, load up 40 and he is
set for life.

These are not griz, but I did get a bit frightened when 'pushing' a 300-400 lb brown
colored black bear off my property in Colorado some years ago. I was throwing some
2" x 20" "logs" at him and waving arms to scare him off. Suddenly, I over did it and
he scampered, and that is exactly the correct word, just like a squirrel - 20 ft up a 8"
aspen. Yikes! I immediately realized I had pushed too hard and frightened him - not
smart on my part. I backed way off, he came down and started ambling away. I came
back and tossed another stick in his direction when he was about 50 yds away.

He turned, stood and gave me a long, hard look. The wife and I both said "UH, OH!"
and I switched the .44 mag from the left hand to my shooting hand and got ready for
a charge. I said quietly "Don't do this", and we stared at each other for about 1 full
minute. Finally he turned, and swinging his head from side to side, wandered off.

I thought I was going to have to shoot him and really did not want to do this if there
was another option. I had small children coming the next day for a few days and really
needed him to be gone.

Never saw him again.

"Discussions" with a black bear are rarely violent, but if they turn that way - you must be
ready to take serious action.

Bill

[runfiverun]

i think you got it.
the load and the gun balanced.
it it were a bigger handle [like a bisley or red hawk] i'd go more.
i have no problems shooting my 450 express, 375/445 supermags.
but they are different platforms, the 44 special,41 mag, and 45 colt are about all i want in the blackhawk.

[rexherring]

As far as the "flinch factor" goes, you'll never notice it if you're shooting at an advancing bear only at the target range. I start flinching a little when sighting in my Ruger .45 with heavy loads but have never even noticed it when shooting at a deer. My RCBS 255 gr cast with a stiff load of AA#9 will penetrate lengthwise a large mule deer so it shouldn't be a problem with black bear either. I know that when they hit a deer, it sounds like you hit a bull in the a$$ with a scoop shovel. WHAPPPPP!!!

[x101airborne]

If I may offer.... I have a 300 WFN mold and a set of 45 colt dies. I would happily loan you the mold and dies if you would reload your buddies ammo. OR I would cast you some boolits and ship them with the dies for you to load and return. (The dies, not the boolits! LOL!) This would give you and he the opportunity to try them and see what he likes without spending that much on ammo.
PM me if this interests you.
Trey

[runfiverun]

i could send some 452664's and 454424's sized to 452.
if you want, p.m. me i'll send 50-100 of each no charge.

[x101airborne]

I just remembered..... I also have the RCBS 45-270-SAA. I could throw that or those in as well.

runfiverun.... Thanks for joining me in your offer to our friend.

[troy_mclure]

If I hadnt gotten such a deal on the .44 mag I would have gotten a .45 colt. One of the main reasons is you can still shoot it with black powder with reasonable power. The .44mag doesn't have the case capacity for efficient black powder use.

[Harter66]

Pm if you like I can't loan my dies but I have some Lee 454242s that are 258gr and 454 dia. 9gr Unique delivered 1050fps in my 7.5 in RBH and over 500 ftlbs left at 50yd . Worked them up for hogs but didn't get to try them.

I too could send you a few to load.

[gray wolf]

Well I guess we do take care of our own EH.
Thank you all for the generous offers to loan dies and send bullets.
You men are the best
Let me find out exactly what this guy decides to do.
Sometimes folks that are unsure of what they want to do change there mind.
I don't mind loading the cases for him--I just want to make sure of his final intentions before I loan anything from you folks.
I will return PM's for the offers if it's necessary.
Option #2 I may just direct him to a somewhat heavy load that I think he can handle and tell him to get a box or two, site in and have at it.

Much thanks to all for the help.

[x101airborne]

For the money he will spend on that factory stuff he could shoot a hump load of hand cast boolits.

Would be happy to help, let me know if I can.

SOME of us take care of our own..... Others make it CLEAR we are NOT family.

[gray wolf]

OK men Like I said in another post, nothing is final till the large lady sings.
I got the last word on the gun he will use and I must say it's a fine looking pistol.
He showed up with a --- get this ---
a Ruger super black hawk bisly hunter I almost fell over.
It's a 44 Mag, I guess they only make em in 44 mag.
I don't know to much about the 44 Mag and off the shelf ammo and Bear.
But the comment was: hey what can you load for this.
Well at this time I can't load squat, no dies, no bullets, no mold, and a limited supply of powder, Bulls Eye, tite group, long shot, IMR 4227, H322
I would imagine he will shoot some factory and have some cases.
So if some of my friends want to give advise and or help out with this venture let me know. Also let me know how to go about loading for this beast, or what I should know NOT TO DO What bullets, what powder,
do I need Mag primers ?
Sorry we started this with the 45 Colt and wound up with the 44 Mag.
(not under my control)

Sam

[x101airborne]

Better to find out now than after buying several boxes of rounds.

Same offer stands. I in fact have many more 44 mag molds than 45 colts, so too easy. I have a GEM of a Mihec 430-265 plain base and have several hundred Ranch Dog 300's GC'd cast up hard. Bullets or molds, dies, etc...... Let me know if I can help.

[troy_mclure]

I like 4227 in my .44 loads. Iirc the bisely model isn't as strong as the regular super redhawk. If so don't load ruger only loads.

[pdawg_shooter]

Didnt know they made a redhwak in the bisely style!

[gray wolf]

are you saying that a ruger super black hawk bisly hunter in SS can't take ruger only loads ?? in a 44 mag.

[runfiverun]

it will take them, i have a bisley hunter in 41 mag.
imr 4227 is a fine powder for casual shots but not for target [long strings] type shooting in the 44.
for hunting or other stuff it's fine.
longshot will do what you need all the way up to 350 gr bullets.
standard primers are fine.
offer stands on the 44's too.
i have 429241's, a 240 rnfp by magma,the 429667,and the rcbs 240 swc gas check.
all at 430.
i also swage 250 gr fp's [or hollow points but they open too quick for use on a bear] from 40 S&W cases.
i do heavier in the swaged too [315-350] but don't have any made up right now.
let me know if you want some.

[DeanWinchester]

I like 4227 in my .44 loads. Iirc the bisely model isn't as strong as the regular super redhawk. If so don't load ruger only loads.

First there is no Bisley Redhawk and second the Bisley Blackhawk is the same as any blackhawk and it will hold up to any Ruger only loads. I think what you are remembering is that the Vaquero is not as strong and should not be fed Ruger only loads. Knowing Ruger, I have my doubts about hat too but I wouldn't bet my Vaquero or my face on it.

[troy_mclure]

oh, you are likely right.

[MtGun44]

Federal Cast Core - fantastically accurate in my guns, expensive but a LBT style cast
factory load, perfect for the application. Buy two boxes, shoot one for practice.

Bill

[gray wolf]

YUP--
Some of em Factory rolled --over the counter loads for the 44 mag don't look to bad.
BUT the cost of them would feed us for 10 day's or so, sides I love to cast and do my own. After doing a lot of looking, asking and searching, it seems the 240 grain bullet is a bullet that is very popular. I like the 300 grain but I think the 270 grain would be a nice compromise, what say you all ?
It could be loaded down for paper and cans while also loaded up for the Black bear.
Some day in my dreams perhaps I can get a mold like that.
Seems it would make a fine Deer bullet also.
At my age It's hard to get all row deed up over things, but pistols, shooting, casting and reloading will do it every time EH.
I still have a love for the 45 Colt but hey shooting a 44 bisly hunter will do just fine. Here I am talking like I know about a 44 mag, fact is I know very little cept what I learn from you folks and book reading.
I guess I will have to see what I can do with the long shot powder,
and the IMR 4227. I don't think I quite grasp why the 4227 in not good for long strings ( extended shooting ) I have been told not to use light loads with the H110 and 296 ( explosions ) I am thinking ?? that a 270 grain hard cast should do OK at about 1150 to 1200 F P S for the old 300 pound black bear, and Deer.
Cans and paper the 240 at about 900 F P S should be OK.
Loading for a new cartridge is like a new girl friend, got to find out what makes em purr EH.
Anyway I sure do appreciate all the feed back on this new venture and I welcome all the help.


Sam

[arkypete]

Ya know it maybe cheaper, considering what the cost of this specialist ammo for the 45 Colt cost, to take along a partner that he out run.
I've never felt the least bit inadiquate carrying a 45 Colt with cartridges loaded with 9 to 10 grains of Unique and a 250 grain hard cast bullets.
Black bears are right friendly types as long as you keep your distance and understand bear ediquette.

Jim

[DHB]

I don't think it has been mentioned yet. The original loading for a 45 Colt was a 230 gr boolit in front of 40 gr black powder. This load (the original) was contracted for by the US Army (cavalry) to drop a horse at 100 yards. I would not want to stake my life on anything smaller than I could handle. The loads mentioned would certainly do the job (kill) a bear of 200-300 pound weight, but NOT IF THE ONE WITH THE GUN COULDN'T HIT SH*T!!!!!!! Practice with what ever ammo you get. Stopping a horse at 100 yards is a whole lots easier than stopping a bear at 20 feet.
DHB

[troy_mclure]

my ruger sbh .44mag 7.5"bbl was most accurate with rainier ballistics 300gr plated bullets(fp) and 21.4gr 4227, federal large mag pistol primer.

i shot thousands of these thru it. while i was only shooting at 25yd 6" steel plates i rarely missed.

now that my barrel is cut to 5.25" it likes a lighter boolit, 240gr seems to work best with a wider variety of powders.