More GCs and Lee sizers

[JohnFM]

In another thread I got to asking about LLA, sizing, etc.
Williamwaco provided a link to some good stuff on that liquid Alox.
He recommended a double application, OK I can see that.

So, yesterday I got out another newly received mold, a Lee C309-113-F made for Gas Check use.
And I cast a batch, more nice looking bullets came out of that one too.
However the as cast size was .311, but the taper at the base was the correct size to accept a GC. Is this how a GC bullet mold is made?
Requiring a pass through a sizer to seat the check and also size the bullet to the stated size. After a pass through the Lee die they are a perfect .309.

Seating the check was where I had a problem. Pushing through either forward or backwards the die chopped a ring off the copper GC while entering the sizer.
The Lee sizer has a sharp corner edge at the entrance into the die.
There's a short section of free lead before entering the actual sizing section proper, but it's too small to allow entrance of the open end of the GC into the bore.

These dies are only about 16 bucks, so I figured, OK, I'll work on it a little.
I chucked up a fine grit mounted taper in the drill press and began honing out that opening at the bottom of the die.
I opened it up just enough so that, with the bullet entering nose first, the flared end of the GC would just get into the lead of the sizing portion.
Actual bore of that on this die is about 0.750 in length.
After doing that the bullet would enter, begin getting sized and the GC would go in fairly smoothly with no cutting and also get sized to 0.309.
Um, make sense what I did?
I'm posting a picture of a couple done.

Now, I think I could load and shoot these as cast at 0.311 without the check, but polishing out a little taper at the bottom of the die sure seemed to make a smoother job of installing the GC if I want to go that way.

Looking at the photo, do you all think that the bullets should get another coat of LLA?

Sorry about the long winded post.

[grouch]

I'd say you could shoot them. You should try them(5 or 10 of them) and see if more lube is needed.
Grouch

[JohnFM]

I hadn't let the LLA get dry and so while I was handling them doing this reworking of the die and messing around I rubbed off a lot of the lube that was in the grooves.

[williamwaco]

I hadn't let the LLA get dry and so while I was handling them doing this reworking of the die and messing around I rubbed off a lot of the lube that was in the grooves.

Good Grief Charlie Brown!

Did you learn why they call it Mule Snot?



.

[JohnFM]

Gooey stuff, smells good though.
Good thing I don't own any white shirts.

[ku4hx]

If using LLA, I relube all mine after sizing. But then I also wear a belt and suspenders.

[Larry Gibson]

Try the .311 sizer. What's the as cast diameter of those bullets?

Larry Gibson

[JohnFM]

As cast .311.

[Junior1942]

I lube & push-through size & install gaschecks when wet . . . the bullets, that is.... Then I apply another coat of LLA and let dry. Why not apply a 2nd coat of LLA? It would cost maybe 2¢????

[JohnFM]

Why goo everything up more after sizing?
Two coats before sizing should leave enough in the groves available.
Looks to me like that stuff is going to forever remain a dirt and dust magnet.

[ShooterAZ]

I had the same problem, I took a wood dowel and a piece of fine emery cloth and worked a tiny bit on the "sharp corner" at the bottom of the boolit sizing die. The problem went away. The reason you want to relube the boolit is that you want lube on the bearing surfaces...not just in the lube grooves.

Shooter.

[JohnFM]

On the bearing surfaces? Really?
I would think any of that lube there would be scraped clean passing through the bore.
I guess I'm too used to commercial cast with the hard lube only in the lube grooves.

[Sonnypie]

I don't see anywhere that you have slugged your bore, so I'd suggest you do that to see what size you want your finished (sized) bullets.
Good that you have a .309" sizing die. I went thataway and then honed mine to .3105" out the poop shoot. Which is .002" over my bore slug.
(Because Lee for some damned reason decided to skip right over .310") :?

One of the fun things about casting your bullets is it opens up a whole realm of tinkering to get where you, and your gun like to be.

I've come up with my own method of hot dipped lubing (http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Boolit%20Gloob/) that has some LLA in it. But I never liked anything about LLA except how convenient it is to apply.
It's messy, it dries sticky, and it goobs up you and your presses/dies.
Otherwise, it's great stuff! Good use for Cosmoline. :-?

I have cadence I use.
Cast. Check. Lube. Size. Clean.
Then the little boogers are ready to load.
Never saw any reason to have lube on noses or butts of the bullets I load.

YMMV.

http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/Sonnypie/Boolit%20Gloob/california_nut-loobed_boolits.jpg

[ShooterAZ]

I went thataway and then honed mine to .3105

I did the exact same thing. It works way better in my 1903 Springfield, and .30 carbine.

[JohnFM]

The bore I'll mainly cast these for is .3085 and it like .309 so I see no reason for messing with the sizer.
These things are weighing 115 grns, so I might load some up for my old 30-30 to carry around on beaver patrol. :)

[ku4hx]

Looks to me like that stuff is going to forever remain a dirt and dust magnet.

A light dusting of Motor Mica and storage in 40 oz. Peanut Butter jars or 35 oz. Coffee Mate jugs will take care of that.

[JohnFM]

Hmm, I got a bullet box full of shot and graphite.
I loaded a bunch of those 358s I made a few days ago this morning.
Just went and dunked those still half sticky things in the shot, they sure feel slicker.

[Gohon]

A light dusting of Motor Mica and storage in 40 oz. Peanut Butter jars or 35 oz. Coffee Mate jugs will take care of that.

Plain old corn starch will do the same thing. A hand full thrown in a butter bowl, half teaspoon of corn starch, shake as if using LLA, dump into a wire strainer and blow off excess with a air hose or canned air........the're ready to go and no stickiness.

[Wolfer]

I have to hone the sharp edge off most of my lee sizers. I use a split Dow rod with Emory cloth wrapped around it. IMO if you can see LLA you probably have enough. It usually doesn't take very much.

[Larry Gibson]

As cast .311.

That's what I would size and seat the Gc at unless a .311 sized bullet won't chamber.

Larry Gibson

[JohnFM]

I'll give it a try and see if they'll work.

[newton]

Good thing you caught it when you did. I had the same thing happen to me, but instead of thinking it through, I kept on pushing the buggers on in and wound up severely damaging the punch. I had to cut a chunk off of it and file it down smooth again. Then I realized that I should hone out the entrance to the die and it would keep the checks from getting caught. Works like a charm now. Each sizing kit I buy from them gets the treatment.

You don't mention what your shooting them in. I just shot some this weekend out of my stevens 110 30-06. They worked great. I use the .309 sizing die also. And have noticed the taper of the as cast boolit you describe, must be a mold makin issue.

As far as lube, I shot some without any additional lube other than LLA - twice applied. But then I switched over to a softer lube to fill the groves completely and ran them through the sizer again. They are sweet little lead pills now.

I would shoot some to see how your gun likes things. The worst its going to do is leave a little lead in the barrel that you'll have to get out. Its not that complicated to do so. I am not an expert, but I think length of barrel has some importance in how much lube you need to have on the boolit.

My 30-30 170 grain boolits just are tumbled lubed and leave an incredible lube star on the crown. But the little soup cans I shot this weekend never did, even with the lube grooves filled. However, in the end, its all comes down to what your specific gun likes. There are a lot of things you can do with reloading and casting, but its a matter of tailoring it to your specific gun.

[JohnFM]

I bought that mold mostly for my Ruger BH 30 carbine, since I really like to shoot it and use a lot of ammo in that thing.
I'm still looking at various methods of lubing. Just can't bring myself to plunk down the bucks for a Lyman or RCBS lubersizer at this stage of the game.
I won't be playing with that bullet for a while now, I also got a Lee 358-158-RF and have cast enough with that to try some loads.
My S&W 19-3 really likes it right as it come from the mold and I need to spend some time and cast up a couple thousand.
14grns of 2400 made a dandy load.

[newton]

I bought that mold mostly for my Ruger BH 30 carbine, since I really like to shoot it and use a lot of ammo in that thing.
I'm still looking at various methods of lubing. Just can't bring myself to plunk down the bucks for a Lyman or RCBS lubersizer at this stage of the game.
I won't be playing with that bullet for a while now, I also got a Lee 358-158-RF and have cast enough with that to try some loads.
My S&W 19-3 really likes it right as it come from the mold and I need to spend some time and cast up a couple thousand.
14grns of 2400 made a dandy load.

Funny, I heard that the soup can was a good fit with the 30 carbine and thought that I had a good excuse to buy me another gun...haha. I have a 45 convertible in the BH, but I saw a 30 carbine for sale the other day.

[williamwaco]

I do not lube before sizing with the Lee push through dies.
I tried it and decided it was not necessary.

I size then Tumble.
When I was tumbling before sizing, I learned real quick that that IS NOT going to work.
They will lead like crazy if you don't re-lube after sizing.

.