Please school me on lead types

[desteve811]

Just got a bunch of lead solder and old lead pipe. What type of shooting can I use these for? Are these considered soft/hard lead?

[ShooterAZ]

Solder is "usually" a mix of tin & lead, but can contain a variety of other metals such as copper and even silver. Not sure on the lead pipes. If your lead pipes are pure you might be able to mix with your solder for your tin. Should be OK for mild handgun or BP loads.

[Larry Gibson]

Lead is lead and is a basic element; Pb. Alloys containing lead are what we use to make cast bullets. There are 2 basic types of alloys most commonly used; binary and ternary.

A binary alloy contains lead and one other element as the main components; either tin (SN) or antimony (Sb). Common alloys of these types are lead/tin at 40/1, 30/1, 20/1 and 16/1. Those are primarily for black powder cartridges, muzzle loaders or CF rilfe or handgun bullets fo velocities of 1500 fps or so where expansion is wanted. Another is Lead/antimony with the alloy containing a small percentage of antimony, usuall not more than 5%. Common use of that alloy is lead shot of the "magnum" variety and lead cores of some types of jacketed bullets.

A ternary alloy contains 3 basic elements; lead, tin and antimony in various percentages for various uses. It is the antimony that is the "hardener" per say. Most cast bullets are of a ternary alloy. WWs, Lyman's #2 alloy and linotype alloy are examples.

Most alloys will have trace amounts of arsenic and other metals also.

A few bullet casters are experimenting with the addition of copper in the ternary alloy by adding babbit. This gives the alloy a different composition and grain structure which appears to make for a much harder bullet for higher velocity applications.

Your lead solder will have lead and tin in it. How much depends; if new it should say "50/50, 60/40 or some such. That means it is 50% lead and 50% tin if it says 50/50. The old lead pipe may be pure lead or close to it. It also may have some tin and be on the order of 40-1 alloy. The addition of tin makes it flow better and fill out.

I would suggest for a much better understanding of alloys and how they relate to casting you get a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd edition, currently out of print as the 4th edition is in print. Check at used book shops or in the swappin & sellin forum. The information section will give you the best basic understanding and the data section will give a lot of reference.

Both the solder and the lead pipe would considered "soft".

Larry Gibson

[desteve811]

Thanks larry

[Jeffrey]

A word on lead pipe quoted from an earlier post:

"Pure" lead will scratch with a fingernail. This is good for muzzleloader projectiles, soft point noses, and alloy mixing. The sheets and pipes will likely fall into this catagory. Apply the scratch test. PLEASE note: the pipe may have"wipe joints". These are oval splices joining two or more pipes. Think couplings. These wipe joints are high tin hard alloy and are worth keeping separate for rifle boolits.
Be especially carefull smelting the pipe. These will contain a lot of stuff that will end up as dross. Water WILL hide under the scale inside the pipe. Even if you know the inside is dry NEVER EVER lay pipe down in a pot of molten lead. A molten lead shotgun will result as the air inside the pipe expands blowing molten lead out both ends of the pipe. Think tinsel fairy times 100.
Muffin tins make good ingot moulds. Get the tins that are dark, NOT silver. Silver colored tins are tin plated and molten lead will solder tight to them. Cast iron is not necessary unless you get it cheap / free.
Some info on solder: It comes in two forms - bars and wire. Bar solder is in bar form, roughly 3/4" wide by 1/2" thick and 15 or so inches long. It should be marked 70/30, 65/35 etc. This is the lead / tin ratio. Plumbing wire solder is usually on a 1/2# or 1# roll. This can be almost anything: primarly tin with traces of copper, nikel, silver... The best way to find out what this is is to check the label on the roll. If composition is not there, check on line for MSDS. Composition will be there. Plumbing solder has been lead free for 20 -30 years.

Jeffrey

[runfiverun]

even extruded lead pipe can have antimony in it.
depending on where it was used and what for.
3-5% iis a common, extruding or swaging it the antimony poses no problems
add some tin to the mix and things change rapidly.
casting it will show the antimony in a harder final product.

[cactus clay]

good info jeffrey and run5, i'm a plumber and have just started casting w/ lead from drain pipe and traps. first run worked fine w/ my 9mm but just found the info on pencil testing the hardness and it seems just harder than pure lead (5B pencil). read somewhere else today that might want to add 2-3oz of lead free solder to about 10lbs lead to get a better hardness. does that sound about right to y'all?