1886 Win. in 40-65

[pmer]

I am looking at a 1886 in 40-65 WCF and wondering what you guys think. The bore is not bad with enough rifling for shooting, the finish is about 10% and the wood is dark and tight with no cracks. The forearm has some old denting on the bottom.

The only thing I can find is that it has a crack in the reciever at the rear upper mounting screw for the but stock. The crack goes right and left and the little peice of metal is held in place between the stock and the wood screw.

When I showed him the crack he held his ground at $1950 and I'm wondering if it's a good deal or not.

He also has a 45-75 1876 that is in pretty nice condition with about 10% finish too. I was thinking of trading some things for either of these lever actions. Actually he has more old lever actions than new ones and old Colts too. And there is a new lite weight 1886 45-70 in the rack as well.

The 1886 was built in 1892 and I'm can't remember when the 1876 was built.

[shrapnel]

I have both 1886's and 1876's and by the sounds of the '86, he needs it worse than you do. Let him keep it. It wouldn't be worth it at $1500.00. Both of my 1886's are 40-65 and I love the caliber, but you are best to move on.

Now for the 1876, I would really look hard at that one unless there are similar issues with it. If there are problems, it sounds to me like he is peddling junk, move on...

If the 1876 is in good condition, I would take it over the 86 in like condition any day. An 1876 is a real gun of the West, by the time the 1886 got there, the West was already won. I have a couple and have shot everything from rabbits to antelope, deer and moose.

1876's are a better gun for buying as there were only about 63,000 of them ever made. They aren't as weak as everyone wants to claim they are and they are truly a masterpiece of design and simplicity. 45-75 isn't an easy caliber to get shooting as the brass is very limited and what is available is not always consistent. I have one in 45-75 and I am glad I have it, I have taken it as far as Alaska and my son shot a bear with it.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_1026.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_0568.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_0373.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_3113.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_0209.jpg

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I really like that photo of the prairie dog ! Have a 76 in 45/60 with a 28 inch barrel vintage of 1882/3. One of my favorites to haul about. Ground hogs are the biggest critters I can pop in ILLinois when up north there. Can use a 414 Supermag revolver to pop corn crunchers but not a 45/60 ???
Hope to this year get an opportunity at one of the cougars IDNR released in the Danville area. So far they deny the big cats exist so there is no prohibition what rifle I use to shoot a ghost.
Mike in Peru

[Gunlaker]

I'd pass if there is a crack in the receiver. I just picked up a shootable 1886 in .38-56 that sounds like it's in similar condition but maybe rougher wood. I paid $1200 for it and I'm in Canada where everything costs 50% more than it does in the good ol' US of A.

Chris.

[pmer]

Thanks for the good advice. Those pictures are fun to look at.

Can you make 45-75 brass from 45-90s or some other brass?

[405]

pmer,
shrapnel and gunlaker gave very sound advice. The original 76s are in a completely different league of value/market so the approach to purchase is different. I too would pass on the 86. Take a very close look at the 76 for sound mechanics and bore. Cosmetics become very secondary when looking at them.

[pmer]

The 76 does have a shootable bore and usable sights. the dust cover moves pretty free and might be considered a little loose. The action moves like it would freely lift a cartidge. The lever lock is there and turns good. I didn't look in the butt stock where the rods are stored but is said to be empty. I haven't looked to close at the crown and the some finish is present mostly in low spots like in the flats of the barrel next to the mag tube and low spots of the receiver.

It isn't marked for a cartridge and I didn't see any cracks or missing parts. The rod that the hammer hits to fire a round moves but could be a little more free unless its supposed be that way.

If it's good to go what should it be worth? I can't quite remember but I think the price was $3750

[405]

Now comes the hard part.. huh! Without looking at it, any advice won't do much justice to your decision about what to do. Judging only from your posted description and without pictures or looking at it in hand... I'd say the $ is on the high side- but not totally wacky if it's all "correct" and sound and shootable. The serial number will tell the year made and there is a small price premium for the older models. The dust covers are almost always loose on well used 76s and 73s- it's not unusual. The firing pin is held in the bolt by a partial, elongated key-way slot along the edge of the pin. And, with the action open the firing pin is under a little upward tension by the hammer so it's normal to seem a little tight when in that position. Another little thing to check is tightness in the action/toggle lock up. To check, cock the hammer then simply nudge the lever down a tiny bit. If gravity takes over and the lever continues to drop down on it own then the action is very worn.

I'm guessing (without looking!) it's in maybe about average or low good condition (antique type grading). Both pricing sources I looked at say it's priced a little high (but like I said- not wacky high). If it were me, the bore condition and the mechanics would tip the scale yes or no on seriously pursuing this gun and making a slightly lower counter offer. Sorry, no absolute answer here since these decisions are so subjective! And good luck no matter the outcome.

[ammohead]

Shrapnel,

Are you the Shrapnel of Mike Venturino fame?

[shrapnel]

Shrapnel,

Are you the Shrapnel of Mike Venturino fame?

Yes, there is another story due out in th June issue of "Guns" magazine. I have a copy of the article, it is well written as usual and makes me sound idiotic as usual, but I am not as bad as the stories make me out to be. I did shoot a hole through his steel plate target and blew the muzzle brake off the gun, but neither was my fault...

[shrapnel]

Shrapnel,

Are you the Shrapnel of Mike Venturino fame?

Actually the articles he wrote in "Guns" magazine on the newsstand right now are about money guns and BPCR. He mentions a friend in both articles that are me, but he doesn't want to confuse "Shrapnel" with any of his friends. As a matter of fact the 1886 he wrote about in his Money Guns article is the 1886 in the picture above with the mule deer buck...

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was about to ask the same question, however you are in fact the one.

Talk to Venturino and get him to chime in here from time to time. We always need experienced information coming from "them that knows".

It makes us better!

Randy

[KirkD]

Regarding that '76, they are hard to come by in original, umessed with condition. What is the barrel length? What is the distance from the muzzle to the middle of the front sight dovetail. I'm wracking my brain to remember what the caliber might be if it has no caliber marking. I could go downstairs and check, but it is past my bedtime and I'm feeling lazy. I seemto remember that the 50-90 was not caliber marked. If it is a 50-90 and umessed with, $3,750 is a smashing good deal. Otherwise, it is hard to get any original, umessed with '76 in decent condition (parts all there, they work, and the surface has no finish, but is not rough) for less than $3,000 around here. I know where there is a dog of a beater for sale for about $2,500. The only thing it would be good for is a Turnbull restoration.

[shrapnel]

No caliber marking would make it a 45-75, but it had still better be in good condition to fetch $3750.00.

These 2 76's are what I would consider real good and great condition, the top gun is at least 90% and would bring $10,000.00-$12,000.00, while the lower gun would be in the $7,000.00 range.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1077.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1080.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1081.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1083.jpg

[pmer]

Wow, I am amazed and humbled by the company you can find here at Cast Boolits. Thanks again, Shrapnel, for the pics of the 76s they are treasures. So Mike V. borrows your rifles to write a article and ribs you in the process, that's funny! It reminds me of bumming a smoke and asking for a light.

The shop owner said he paid $3200 or $3250 for it. So there is some wiggle room. The test to check the toggle lockup that 405 mentions sounds like a very good thing to try. And the finish is no where near the rifles in Shrapnels pictures.

He also has another 1876 marked for less but I should've taken a closer look at it.

[hickstick_10]

The only thing I can find is that it has a crack in the reciever at the rear upper mounting screw for the but stock. The crack goes right and left and the little peice of metal is held in place between the stock and the wood screw.

When I showed him the crack he held his ground at $1950 and I'm wondering if it's a good deal or not.



The guns broken. It may function but so will a car with a U joint thats about to go, but it is broken.

Let the man keep trying to sell his broken gun, and really consider if you want to do business with someone who tried to pass that gun off on you, remember YOU pointed out the crack to HIM, man sounds about as crooked as a question mark. Who knows what else hes not telling you.

[John Taylor]

Thanks for the good advice. Those pictures are fun to look at.

Can you make 45-75 brass from 45-90s or some other brass?

You can make 45-75 brass from 348 or 50-110 but it will be about .015" undersize in front of the rim. It's a little spendy when new http://www.midwayusa.com/product/159148/bertram-reloading-brass-45-75-winchester-box-of-20

[pmer]

Well the idea is out for me. Wife caught wind and since the rifle doesn't "cook or do other things" l am going to have to hold off.

Don't want to trade enough items to match that sum.