Indication of an over-used case, or high pressure?

[DrCaveman]

Hello

I loaded up some nice hot loads using Lil Gun powder and my boolits cast from the Lyman 358430 mold. They dropped right at 200 gr for me, and this was loaded in 357 mag brass, shot through my 6" GP 100. Primers were CCI 500.

As a quick note, this felt more like a rifle than a revolver to me. Accuracy was acceptable when I did my part, but I am sure my exact powder charge could use some more dialing in. Im happy to say that there was no leading and absolutely no flattening nor extrusion of primers.

What concerned me, and prompted me to immediately segregate my shot brass, was a small line I noticed near the rim. I have seen this before in my loading manuals (never in real life), as a warning sign for case failure. The examples I saw involved 30-06 cases, I think. In any event they were significantly higher pressure cartridges than 357 magnum.

So, since when is a JPG not an image? I wanted to enlighten everyone with a carefully taken photo, but apparently I will have to research more to upload a JPG file. What is this, a MAC site?

While I am searching for a way for my image to be allowed to be hosted (I am looking at it on my computer screen... YES, it is an image), can anyone answer whether or not they have ruptured the side of a 357 magnum case?

This also begs my newbie question: when do you retire a case? My rifle cases are monitored very closely, with the number of loadings labeled onto each lot. I have not taken the same care with my 38/357/45 cases, since the volume I was consuming rendered this level of anality catastrophic to my attempts at reasonable time usage. So far I have not retired any cases at all, except those whose edges I mangled somehow or another, and a few chewed up by auto loader extraction. But I dont consider these as having "died of old age."

It may be obvious, but I havent been reloading or casting very long. Probably 5,000 total reloads, about 4,000 casts. Im sitting on a nice stock of my own castings right now.

So, how many re-loads do you get out of 357 brass, loaded hot?

[DrCaveman]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226994f7bb1d9d1eef.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4699)

Here is the picture I was intending to include with the original post. Apparently I had to size it down to 30% of the original. Word to the wise.

[Dan Cash]

Normal.

[Wolfer]

You can bend a 90 degree angle on a paper clip and then cut it on an angle to make it sharp. Insert into case and scratch back out. If your about to have a separation you will feel the groove very plainly.

Some of my cases get that look because that's where they hit in my cartridge boxes. I guess shaking around rubs them a little shiny.

[9.3X62AL]

I don't recall EVER having a 357 Magnum case have a failure in service. Of any kind. I've had 38 Special cases with LOTS of reloads on them have case mouth cracks due to crimping, and a couple have had longitudinal cracks--but that has been it. I don't coddle my 357 brass, either--some of it (W-W nickel-plate) gets used with #358156 running 1500 FPS+ from the Ruger Bishawk.

The location of your expansion mark suggests normal expansion of the case to fit the cylinder diameter, and nothing more. A lot of more recently-made RCBS tungsten-carbide sizing dies reduce casing diameters excessively, and I've gone to steel sizers and case lube to ameliorate that problem (excessive working of case metal).

[DrCaveman]

The location of the line is indeed the same as where the cartridge box might rub against the edge of the case. Thanks for the tip.

So, I feel fine now about reloading these cases again, but the question still stands: when do I retire my 357 brass? Maybe I should start a new thread with an appropriately titillating title.

[DrCaveman]

9.3, missed your comment while typing my last one. Thanks for the reassurance. How many reloads can that nickel plated brass withstand?

[stubshaft]

I usually retire mine when the primer pockets get loose or they split.

[jblee10]

I think that line may be where the sizing die comes to while sizing. I've never had a case head seperation in 357 brass, but I suppose it could happen. My brass fails with neck splits.

[303Guy]

I'm a fan of Lil'Gun so would be interested in the load you used. Chronograph readings would be fun. Oh, photo's of the primers would be interesting too.:roll:

Most of us can post pictures as big as we like, requiring scrolling across the screen to view. I do resize my pics to 640 pixels wide to avoid the scrolling thing. I use Photobucket.

[evan price]

Revolver brass is fully supported 360 degrees and does not have violent ejection like a semi auto. If loaded to sane levels and the mouth is not overworked by crimping it will last a very very long time. I retire mine when it splits or the mouth cracks.

[geargnasher]

Evan Price has your answer: Straight-walled revolver brass doesn't get stretched as badly as rifle brass and is supported fully at the head. Even if it did separate, which I've never heard of, it's not going to have the same ramifications. I've only had one .357 Mag case split ever, and it was a victim of way, way too many reloadings. It split from just behind the crimp all the way to the web and I only noticed it because there was slightly more resistance to ejection. I was using a warm load of 2400 and it did zero damage to the chamber. The mouths usually give up and split before anything else fails, especially on nickel brass.

Gear

[44man]

I would watch Lil Gun in the .357. It burns blazing hot and might erode the forcing cone.
Shoot a cylinder full or two and touch the barrel! :holysheep

[uscra112]

Lil Gun doesn't burn any hotter than other powders, but it does give a slower decay in the pressure/time curve than, say, 2400. This means that the gas maintains its' heat farther down the barrel, which has led many people to the mistaken idea that is hotter burning.

That being the case, it's probably not the best powder for a 6" revolver, since more of it will exit the muzzle before it's done burning.

It does great things in longer barrels. In my 14" Contender Hornet it produces significantly higher velocity for less peak pressure than anything else there is.

BTW I see that ring on my .357 brass all the time. It's an artifact of the sizing process. Not to worry.

[newton]

I have had questions about some of my cases too. What I do is just take one and split it. Small sacrifice for peace of mind.

I loaded some .243 loads for my nephew this last weekend. They were HOT! Well, thats compared to what I was used to shooting with my cast boolits. Anyways, I stayed under the max load for the bullet/powder of choice. 40 grain was max, I was at 38.6.

When I took the cases out, its a single shot, they had developed a shinny ring around the base and the primers were flattened. I had always thought this was from sizing, the ring that is. But I compared it to one that had not been fired yet, and no ring. Then I fired it and the ring appeared.

I was uneasy about them so I took one and could not feel a split forming. But just to be on the safe side I split the case to examine it. There was no head separation starting, but I think if I continued to reload them they would eventually cause it.

What I think the ring was is the case fire forming to the the chamber of that gun as I do not have FL sizing dies for that round. It was interesting to say the least.

[Iron Mike Golf]

I've not had .357 Mag cases fail yet. I have had .44 Mag RP cases fail after a couple dozen full snort reloadings. Something like half a per cent. The fail at the mouth with a split going back half to three quarters of the case length.

All my revolver brass shows that "ring". It's just the part of the case that remains outside the sizing die's smallest diameter. Think forcing cone for the die.

[DrCaveman]

303guy, here you go.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226994f7cfb588c577.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4706)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_226994f7cfb646946b.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4707)

One pic shows my impression of little/no flattening. As I was looking through the brass, I found quite a few which seemed to me to be a bit flattened, and that is the other pic. I wouldnt say it is severe, as it is nowhere near what I have seen using Fed primers and light 38 spl loads. But you guys are much more expert than me, let me know what you think.

Disclaimer: I have not seen this exact load published anywhere, so please start much lower and be careful. It worked in my Ruger GP100 6" full-lug, but I cannot promise anything nor take any responsibility.

The load was 13.5 gr Lil Gun, loaded to 1.59" COL using CCI 500 (small pistol std) primers. Like I said, it hit hard, and seemed more potent than many CF rifles I have shot. Gotta figure this would take a white tail, but havent tried it against any flesh. I am planning to bump up to about 14.0 gr for the next go around. I dont think I would need any hotter than that.

No chronograph yet in my tool kit, but it is next on the list. Anyone have any good recommendations? The shooting chrony F1 is the right price, but I think that its lack of features may quickly become annoying.

[DrCaveman]

geez, now that it is posted, I cant tell the difference. The one on the right was supposed to be more flattened, and the cases on the left are less. I cant tell much from these pics, even though I posted them. I guess I gotta use an off-site image hosting service to allow larger pics.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Putting all 4 in the same frame so you have the same camera viewing angle helps when comparing, too.