.429 hollow base boolits?

[Canross]

I was redirected here from another forum so I apologise in advance if this is the wrong section for this question.

I have a problem - I shoot a lot of 44's, some of them with very generous bores... bores that are much closer to 45 caliber than I'd like :shock:. Consequently, I'm looking for a .429 hollow base mold as a "do-all" bullet for my various oversized bore gun. I don't expect great performance, but I'd like to at least improve bullet performance by using a hollow base.


EDITED FOR CLARITY/INFO: the cartridge in question is 44 russian and 44 colts and the firearms in question are antique and modern reproduction S&W top breaks, conversion open top colts, remingtons, and various sundry other strange revolvers that somehow ended up chambered in 44 russian or cartridges so similar that I can't find any difference in chamber castings.

[ku4hx]

Are you wanting to use a hollow base boolit in hopes the base will expand under pressure and thereby fit a variety of bore diameters?

[Canross]

Are you wanting to use a hollow base boolit in hopes the base will expand under pressure and thereby fit a variety of bore diameters?

Yep - it won't necessarily work perfectly, but it'll work better than just hoping that flat base bullets will bump out to fill the bore. I used this method on a revolver chambered in 41 long colt (heeled base design) and used a hollow base sub-bore diameter bullet and actually got better results than with a heeled bullet, so I know it works, just a matter of finding something that'll cast one.

[MtGun44]

Why not just beagle an existing mold to the right size or have a custom mold made? Also,
Erik at Hollowpoint Services will open up the driving bands on an existing mold to your
specs. The only HB .44 I know of is the ultra rare 429422 (IIRC) Keith's HB version of the
429421. When sold (and it is rare) they go for high prices.

Bill

[ku4hx]

Yep - it won't necessarily work perfectly, but it'll work better than just hoping that flat base bullets will bump out to fill the bore. I used this method on a revolver chambered in 41 long colt (heeled base design) and used a hollow base sub-bore diameter bullet and actually got better results than with a heeled bullet, so I know it works, just a matter of finding something that'll cast one.

The use of hollow base boolits for what you described may work, but I seem to recall the lead had to be very soft and many times the skirt separated from the main part of the boolit. For whatever reason, the molds are rare and quite expensive based on the very few I've seen over the years.

Think about it, with all the emphasis hard core casters place on best boolit to bore fit, the ultimate solution would be a universal boolit that swelled to fit every "over sized" bore. And that simply didn't happen to any great extent. What's actually done is the creation of a more or less custom sized solid base boolit that fits a given bore. The hollow base designs died out in modern firearms usage for a reason.

[williamwaco]

Canross,

You didn't give enough information for us to offer much help.

"Closer to .45 than I'd like"? what does that mean?

If you need them larger by a few thousandths, consider lapping the mold.
If you need them larger by several thousandths, say .006 to .010, consider beagling it.

Don't pay any attention to all the horror stories about hollow base bullets. All factory wad cutters are hollow base. Hornady, Speer, and others offer hollow base lead wadcutters and millions of them are fired every year. Unfortunately, nobody seems to want wadcutters for the .44.

The reason they quit making the molds is because they are expensive to produce and VERY slow to use. They quit making them because nobody bought them.

I would not recommend you try to buy one from EBAY. Those buyers over there are INSANE, and the molds are frequently abused.

If you really want a hollow base mold for your .44, contact Erik Oehler at hollowpoint bullet molds.com. He can probably convert a double ended wadcutter mold mold for much less than you can buy one and does excellent work.

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/

If that doesn't work, there are several members here who make custom bullet molds. Ask around. Maybe one of them will make you a hollow base SWC by turning the block around.

.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I have a Lyman 429422 mold I picked up cheap off of flea bay. It is missing the pin for the hollow base. I have not got around to seeing if one from my slug molds or my Lyman 454613 will work. I'll loan you the mold if you want to get a pin made. Just PM me your address. It may be the middle of the month before I get it mailed out as I'm away from home on work assignment.

[beagle]

And if that deal goes through, I can give you the dimensions for the plug./beagle

[w30wcf]

Canross,
I have some hollow based 246 gr bullets that I pulled from some 44 Special ammunition. I could send you a dozen bullets to try if you pm me your address.

w30wcf

[MiHec]

I can offer you .434-395 hollow base wad cutter or .434cal HG#503 mold.

[w30wcf]

NEI Handtools.....

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/429-222-hb.jpg

w30wcf

[williamwaco]

Canross,

Did you hit the jackpot? or WHAT?

I love this board.


.

[44man]

Canross,

Did you hit the jackpot? or WHAT?

I love this board.


.
Me too! But it would still be better to see some dimensions. Bore and throat. Revolver, rifle or single shot.
Years of experience with a Minie' ball in muskets has proven a better bore fit made them exceptional so I would expect the same with other guns. To depend on a skirt only to fill is not the full answer.

[Canross]

PM's sent to Williamwaco, Rattlesnake Charlie, beagle, W30wcf and MiHec - Thanks to everyone for the great replies! I'm definitely still wandering in the wastes as far as knowing what I'm doing with casting.... you guys have it down to an art, it seems I'm still at the finger painting stage :D

MtGun44 - thanks for the suggestions - if you don't mind my asking, what does "beagling" a mold mean?

ku4hx - Completely agree with you. At best this bullet is a stopgap solution. I'm not looking for great accuracy, but I'm also interested in experimenting, and possibly using the hollow base bullet in other guns to see if they like it more than their normal flat base bullets.


Thanks for the replies Williamwaco - I've sent you a PM.

Canross,

You didn't give enough information for us to offer much help.

"Closer to .45 than I'd like"? what does that mean?
The bore on this gun (starr conversion) is something like .490 or even more - I'll have to re-slug it to check the exact measurements, but it's definitely oversized. I do get that this shouldn't work, but after using some heavily crimped pure lead 9mm HB loads with decent results I'm thinking it's at least worth trying.


If you need them larger by a few thousandths, consider lapping the mold.
If you need them larger by several thousandths, say .006 to .010, consider beagling it.


Don't pay any attention to all the horror stories about hollow base bullets. All factory wad cutters are hollow base. Hornady, Speer, and others offer hollow base lead wadcutters and millions of them are fired every year. Unfortunately, nobody seems to want wadcutters for the .44.

The reason they quit making the molds is because they are expensive to produce and VERY slow to use. They quit making them because nobody bought them.

I would not recommend you try to buy one from EBAY. Those buyers over there are INSANE, and the molds are frequently abused.

Good to know - that was one of the main places I was looking!

If you really want a hollow base mold for your .44, contact Erik Oehler at hollowpoint bullet molds.com. He can probably convert a double ended wadcutter mold mold for much less than you can buy one and does excellent work.

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/

If that doesn't work, there are several members here who make custom bullet molds. Ask around. Maybe one of them will make you a hollow base SWC by turning the block around.

.


Canross,

Did you hit the jackpot? or WHAT?

I love this board.
.

Seems I definitely did! It's a nice reminder how many good people are out there - even in the much maligned shooting community! ;)



Me too! But it would still be better to see some dimensions. Bore and throat. Revolver, rifle or single shot.
Years of experience with a Minie' ball in muskets has proven a better bore fit made them exceptional so I would expect the same with other guns. To depend on a skirt only to fill is not the full answer.

Definitely - I've added the info I have on hand to this post and edited my first post. Essentially I'm trying to avoid reloading for 44 colt with the heeled bullets because I don't see myself shooting the conversions much, but would like to shoot them a little, so would like a multi purpose mold that can be put to use in other roles. In this scenario it's for a starr conversion gun that's supposedly in 44 colt, but has an oversized bore.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

So, what's happening on this "project"? My original offer still stands. I want to see old guns shoot!

[MtGun44]

Sorry to be late replying. "Beagling" is adding small squares of aluminum (metal foil) tape
between the mold blocks to intentionally increase the size of the casting. Yes, they are out
of round, and no, it doesn't make a difference in accuracy. You can easily increase the size
of a boolit by .005 or more.

Bill

[Triggerfinger]

Have a question for an old Thread, What's the going price of a complete Lyman 429244 HB? Very good condition.

[Mal Paso]

Have a question for an old Thread, What's the going price of a complete Lyman 429244 HB? Very good condition.

The Lyman 429244 is not hollowbase and still in production. Do you mean 429422?

As a practical matter the MP hollowbase mold is a Lot more productive.

[Triggerfinger]

The Lyman 429244 is not hollowbase and still in production. Do you mean 429422?

As a practical matter the MP hollowbase mold is a Lot more productive.

Thanks for the correction, it is a 429422. Must of had happy fingers. I came across this mold when I purchased 60 molds from a widow of a gentleman who had recently passed. I didn't look at all the molds when I bought them and found this one as I cataloged the rest. Would you have a estimate of value?

[jethunter]

I have used Mihec's HB wadcutter mold in 44 and 45 calibers for the same purpose, which is to get a better fit on some oversized bores. I don';t shoot these old guns enough to want to build a custom mold for each one. The HB WC works well for that purpose most times. BUT the alloy needs to be soft enough to expand and the powder charge needs to be heavy enough to make it expand. Harder bullets and light charges don't work even with a hollow base.

[Mal Paso]

It's a single cavity nose pour 429421 with the pin in the base. Not very popular but since it's a nose pour it can't be cut with the 421 cherry. Add hysterical and semimental value and it could fetch a couple hundred or more. Not an expert, just shop.

There was a hollow point as well that was more popular.

There was a good deal of excitement when MP Molds brought out the #503 which is available in hollowpoint and I think in that first group buy also a hollowbase. I will have see if I can find it. You see in post #10 Miha offers a #503 but it's not clear to me that it's hollowbase like the wadcutter.

[Triggerfinger]

Well I'll cast a few out of and see if it suits me. Thanks for the information on the mold, nice little return for a what I paid for these molds.

[Forrest r]

They are in the +/- $100 range when the come up on e-bay. Lately they've been selling north of $100, just depends on who wants it.

I have 3 different hb molds for the 44cal's. They all are excellent bullets for the snubnosed 44spl's. The last tests I did with a charter arms 2 1/2" bbl'd snubnosed revolver.
https://i.imgur.com/fo57jjU.jpg

top left: lyman 429422 hb swc with a hp put in it with a forster hp tool
top right: Mihec hbwc
bottom right: H&G #142 as cast swc hp with a gc
bottom right: raphine 44cal hb fn with a hp put in it with a forster hp tool

A side view of that 429422 bullet pictured above. As you can see the bullets body compresses and the base flares out.
https://i.imgur.com/9Ht2FPC.jpg

Others have mentioned mihec's 44cal hbwc. This 1 was turned backwards to make a huge hp and shot from the 2 1/2" bbl'd bulldog.
https://i.imgur.com/td95NhG.jpg

I have 2 429422 molds, didn't like the factory round hb pin so I made my own pin. The factory hp pin was designed more for taking weight out of the bullet/make the 429421 bullet lighter.This style/shape of the hb pin I made allows the bullet to seal cylinders better. I've used the same bullet with the home made hb pin cast/coated/sized to .430" in revolvers with cylinders that measured .429" to .4325" with excellent results.
https://i.imgur.com/rVx5uvQ.jpg

Enjoy your keith hb bullets, I like them enough that I have 2 429422 molds and 2 358431 molds (35cal version of the keith hb bullet).