Do I really need to size?

[Flintlock Hokie]

I have some "store boughten" lead 148 gr WCs that measure .358". So if I get a mold for .358" 140 grain SWCs do I still need to size the bullets? I'm new to casting, and have only cast a couple hundred .490 balls so far, but they measure dead-on at 0.490". So why is sizing necessary other than for super precision? :confused:

My Speer and Hornady jacketed bullets measure 0.357". I have some Remington components that measure slightly under 0.357". I can understand why jacketed bullets are slightly smaller than lead bullets.

Thanks!

[9.3X62AL]

I don't tumble-lube or flood-lube, and use a Lyman 450 for sizing and lubing. Accordingly, the 450 is as much (or more) about applying lube as it is about getting the size correct.

[Flintlock Hokie]

I was hoping to avoid buying an expensive sizer/lube press. I already have a press and have been looking at Lee dies and liquid ALOX lube.

[GT27]

I have 6 different Lee tumble lube Molds,I have never sized a boolit yet at all:awesome:!! With the tumble lube design you don't need to size,just lube, let dry,and load!!Saves money in my opinion! All shoot extremely well in all of my guns that the molds were intended for 9mm,38 special,45acp,7.62x39 ect... !:2gunsfiring_v1:

[Charlie Two Tracks]

For me, it depends on what mold I use, temperature of the alloy, method of pouring, composition of the alloy. All these can change the size of the cast boolit. You really have to pour some and see what you have. LEE has some sizer's that are quite economical. They fit on your press. I use Alox on some of my boolits but..... a better way (this is what I do) is use the 45-45-10 lube using Alox. You can read about it in the stickies of the lube section of this site. The real fun of casting, is finding out what works for you and your guns.

[WRideout]

I was hoping to avoid buying an expensive sizer/lube press. I already have a press and have been looking at Lee dies and liquid ALOX lube.

I use cast boolits in my .38 spcl, from a Lyman 358091 mold, and have always shot them as-cast, pan-lubed. I don't even know what the diameter is on them, but they always do what I want, in terms of accuracy.

There are a couple of reasons people use lubrizisers; to apply a gas check, apply lube, and to make the boolits a known uniform size. An easy way to size boolits is with the Lee sizer dies, which can also be used to apply the gas checks. Lubing is done seperately, which adds a step. Lee recommends Liquid Alox before running them through the size die, but any kind of lube would probably work.

I have in the past used a Lyman lubrisizer, but I can't justify the expense, as good as my standard load is working now.

Wayne

[Ole]

I have a lot of molds that I don't size at all.

Cast, tumble or pan lube, load and shoot. :Fire:

[slide]

If they shoot well without sizing then you wouldn't need to. Like the guys said , each gun is different in what it likes.

[3006guns]

Richard Lee asked the question years ago......."Why are we running a cast bullet through a sizing die when the barrel will do exactly the same thing?" Now, he's correct as far as it goes.....that is, IF the boolit is REASONABLY round and of the proper size right out of the mold you shouldn't have to size it.

Of course, this flew in the face of all previous casting logic until shooters began trying it. I have several Lee molds that cast about .001" over groove diameter and lubing is as simple as some alox and let 'em dry. As long as they don't bulge the case just load, shoot and enjoy. Yes, they are accurate.

I have a lot of Lyman molds and have experimented with the ones that are just over groove diameter. I don't size them and use alox for lube........they shoot great. Really increases my production if I can avoid the lubrisizer.

If you're still concerned about sizing, the Lee kits are ridiculously cheap compared to a regular lubrisizer.

[MBTcustom]

It depends......If you're shooting for fun, then no. If you're shooting for score, not unless you have to.
If you're asking if its safe? Like will it cause excessive pressures? Do me a favor, go out to your bench and run one of your jacketed bullets through your push through sizer so that you reduce the O.D. by .001. You may answer a whole bunch of questions in a few minutes.
Oh, and if the bullet gets stuck in the die, send it to me and I'll fix it for free. However, if you crack your press off the bench, thats on you!

[Wolfer]

My experience has been just like everybody else here. If your boolit will chamber, shoot it. Cast boolits go down a barrel a LOT easer than jacketed. I didn't own a sizer for a long time and shot thousands of out of round boolits out of my 45 colt. My cyl are .452 and my boolits were .452 x 457 and I had no problems. I bought all my sizers to install gas checks. Their all lee by the way. Some didn't come in the size I wanted so I just honed them out.

There have been times when I didn't have any boolits lubed so I did like Elmer said and just wiped the grooves full by hand. My lube is a toilet bowl ring and a cake of parrifin so it's pretty soft. Works great on the low velocity stuff and makes pretty good flux.

I'm all about cheap.

[Flintlock Hokie]

Thanks for all the replies! Good stuff.

[runfiverun]

i go the other way here.
i size, all of them.
all but one boolit it's a plain based 25-20 boolit from a rapine mold that pours out at 259.
it's a lube grooved boolit i swirl lube it but fill the lube grooves while doing so.
my most accurate stuff is sized and not hugely oversized either.
3235 for my 8mm
358 for my 358 win
2245 for my 223/22-250/and swift
285 for my 7x57's
310 in my old 94
in my 308's with the long bore riding nose boolits the noses are 302 and the body is 310
in my old eddystone i size 311 because the bore is that big right at the throat.
i try to get the boolit transitioned into the bbl,down it, and out the muzzle with as little damage to it as i can.
this includes jamming it into a case with a ton of neck tension.

[zxcvbob]

I have a Lyman lubrisizer, but I haven't used it in a couple of years. (all my boolit molds have bevel bases :() I shoot them as they drop from the mold. Visual inspection and remelt any that are misshapen or too big, then lube with a mixture of paste wax and Alox.

The ones that I load for competition or for self defense (.38 Special) I run thru a Lee Factory Crimp die, and cull any that actually get resized. (the culls get shot for practice or just plinking) The FCD is just for quality control.

[Flintlock Hokie]

... i swirl lube it but fill the lube grooves while doing so.
...

I'm assuming "swirl lube" means swirling the boolits in a tub with liquified lube. Is that correct?

It also sounds like I could just wipe the lube on with my fingers, making sure I fill the lube groove(s). Right?

[zxcvbob]

It also sounds like I could just wipe the lube on with my fingers, making sure I fill the lube groove(s). Right?

Theoretically you could do that, but you won't be happy with it. Too messy and too slow. (I've tried it, using lithium complex grease)

Get one of the Lee resizing die kits. It comes with a sizing die that fits in your press, a ram to push the bullets thru, and a 4 ounce bottle of liquid Alox. You can try it with and without sizing the bullets and see what you like.

[hiram]

Different people have different philosophies. Some people size the bullet to get a certain size. Others believe the largest bullet to fit the throat and still able to chamber a round is correct. I'm not sure which is correct, but I feel the barrel is the final sizing die.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I have molds that come out right about what i would size them to any way . maybe i am lazy but the least amount of time and money put into a projectile that gives me satisfactory results especial in pistol boolits that will be fired at 5-15 yards for non competition recreational shooting the better

a good example is the c309-170rf that i use for 30-30 it drops from the mold at .310 so the .311 sizing die is only if i am putting a gas check on , so no plinkers get sized

the lee kits work just fine , but check out RECLUSE LUBE 45/45/10
seems to be a benefit to adding johnson past wax to the alox , it dries without the tackiness and reduces fouling

[runfiverun]

for that one i use a thickened swirl lube.
using 3 parts of jpw [reduced] and one part b-wax, with some mineral spirits,and a hint of lanolin.
the mineral spirits is just to speed the dry time, other wise it takes about 10 days to dry fully but makes a lube that is very close to the lube on 22's.

[MikeS]

There's a real simple reason to size your boolits, and that is consistency. Few moulds will drop boolits at exactly .358 (or whatever size they're supposed to be), so boolits need to be sized to whatever size you need. And even if you have a mould that drops boolits fairly close to the size you want, it won't do that for EVERY pour, and if you don't size your boolits, you won't find out that one is slightly larger until it won't fit in your gun! If you're just plinking this isn't that big of a problem, but if you're shooting for score, or protection, it can be a big problem! Having said that, a Lee push thru sizer will work just as well as a lube-sizer for making your boolits the size you want, they just don't also lube, but if you're using LLA, that's not a problem either. I have a lube-sizer, as well as Lee push thru sizers for all the calibers I cast, there are times when the Lee dies just come in handy.

[Flintlock Hokie]

Note to MikeS: What is LLA?

[Wolfer]

LLA. Lee liquid alox

[Recluse]

i go the other way here.
i size, all of them.

i try to get the boolit transitioned into the bbl,down it, and out the muzzle with as little damage to it as i can.
this includes jamming it into a case with a ton of neck tension.

I'm with RFR here.

I size everything. I'm pretty anal about my handloading and strive for consistency as much as anything. Lot of variables in handloading and if I can eliminate even one by doing something as simple as sizing my cast projectiles, then I'm going to do it.

Secondly, as R5R points out, I don't like jamming oversized boolits into cases. In fact, I don't like "forcing" anything in the handloading and shooting process.

:coffee:

[runfiverun]

i liked the richard lee comment.
he believed in it so much he sells sizing dies.

[Bret4207]

There are several very long and involved threads regarding the need to size. In short, it depends on the specifics of the gun, mould, design, etc. Sometimes you have to size, sometimes you don't. Look back through the posts in the various sections for further info.

[gefiltephish]

As MikeS pointed out, often the bullets vary in size as cast. Not only can the odd large one be hard to chamber, it can be a real bear to clear if it has been chambered. To prevent leading, my XD9 needs the largest bullet that will reliably chamber and had no problem chambering rounds that were slightly too tight (perhaps due to thick case walls). The first two times this happened, I didn't have a wood block (with 2 holes) to force the slide back. At that time I had no choice but to shoot the round, fortunately I was at the range. But what if I was at home and couldn't shoot to clear it? I couldn't even decock the gun. Here in the police state you can't transport a loaded weapon, so no trip to the range (which is an hour away). After that experience I made 2 changes. 1. Make up a wood block. 2. Size all bullets. End of problem. I've never had to use the wood block since sizing.

[luvtn]

i liked the richard lee comment.
he believed in it so much he sells sizing dies.

In buisness you cater to your customers wants and percieved needs.:lol:
lt

[ScottJ]

Of all the molds I've accumulated in 3 years of casting (yeah, I'm still a newbie compared to many here) I've found I have 2 that I absolutely must size:
RCBS .45 230gr round nose: I have a 1911 that won't chamber them unless I size to at least .452.

RCBS 9MM 115gr RN: unsized it has given me chambering problems across several guns.

I learned last week I ought to size my 358156 even if running without a check in .38. Unsized they just barely go into the chambers of my model 10. They don't just drop in like normal. I have to give them a little press with the thumb.

[mistermog]

I admit I skimmed over but if you measure the bullet and measure your bore, if they are the same or the boolit is .001 over the bore, you wont need to size. :)

I have some lee molds that are all over the map from .001 under to .003 over what they should be, it all depends on the lead mix used and everything.

measure everything or size everything, safety first. :)

[BAGTIC]

I have been casting over 40 years and never sized. A sizing die may produce a bullet the right diameter. The bore WILL produce a bullet the right diameter.

If your mould does not throw them perfectly round the bore will size them perfectly round. I believe the use of sizing began with the muzzleloaders where shooters wanted a well fitting bullets but could not easily and consistently ram an oversized bullet without deforming it. Apparently the reason for sizing never made the transition to breechloaders.

Of course I am not a competitive shooter. If it hits where I need it to at ranges where I
shoot I am happy. If my rifle holds minute of deer at 200 yards it is OK. If my handgun stays on rabbits at 25-50 yards I'm content. For those guys who need milimicron groups at 7.56 light years I don't know and I doubt I ever will. For me it is good enough.