Dacron for dummies

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

With the recent threads about fillers, this leads me to ask a question.
Is there a reference somewhere or "rules to live by: for folks not familiar with their use?
How does one decide if or when to use fillers, what to use for fillers etc? I see lots of recommendations when a specific set of circumstances are asked, but where would one go to find out how and/or when make these decisions? I've gleaned a bit of information for various posts, but somewhere there is surely a place that would be the "Beginners guide to using fillers"

[NoSquibs]

Looks like I'm in about the same place you are! http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109280

[runfiverun]

that is a very informative thread but read all of it and carefully.
if you can find it runfiveslittlegirl or me [i can't remember], posted a thread where we shot a series of tests that showed the difference, with and without fillers, in three different bbl lengths over the chrono and the on target results.

but here is a thumbnail version.
h-322 through @ 4064 fillers are good, drop the powder down the weight of the filler [rounded up] and one more grain to start.
the slow pistol powders, there are some situations where a filler will help.
and some where they just add more pressure and velocity to the load and don't do much more than that.
fast pistol powder a filler is not needed and usually cause more problems than they help.
some of the slower rifle powders will benefit from them [if they fill less than 80% of the case use one, especially ones with a kicker charge
[a filler here is mandatory to keep the kicker from mixing with the main charge]

[TNFrank]

I tried to work up some 3031 loads for a 45/70 that I had using a dacron filler but finally gave up and just went with Pyrodex.

[missionary5155]

I tried to work up some 3031 loads for a 45/70 that I had using a dacron filler but finally gave up and just went with Pyrodex.

Good morning
Were you trying a reduced load ? If so you would have been better served with Unique up to 1200 fps and 2400 from 1200 fps to 150 fps.
Mike in Peru [smilie=2:

[Larry Gibson]

As per the post it the “sticky” “filler” at ; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109280

I have for many, many years found dacron (polyester fill) to be the best "filler". I use a filler only when appropriate. Many think I always use a filler with every powder....I DO NOT!!!! The use of the filler can cause problems if not used correctly and when appropriate. If the powder is not correct for the bullet/cartridge combination then the filler is not going to make it "right". Many want to use a specific powder for a cartridge because the powder is "cheap" or because "they have a lot of it". There are lots of powders that are not only poor choices to use but that can be dangerous if used in an inappropriate bullet/cartridge combination. Do yourself a favor if you are wanting to use an inappropriate powder (usually "no data" available is an indication the powder might be inappropriate) and get an appropriate powder. You will save yourself a lot of frustration. The use of the dacron filler only makes an appropriate powder perform better. The dacron filler will not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I don't use the dacron filler or a wad with the fast to medium burning "fast" pistol /shotgun type powders. I find one of these fast burning powders that is fast enough to ignite and burn efficiently at the velocity I want and avoid using a filler with them.

I almost always use the dacron filler in rifle cases with the slower “fast” burning powders (4227, 4759, 5744, 4198, etc. with lighter medium weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 140 - 165 gr bullets in .30/.31 cals of 30-30 through '06 case capacity), the medium burning powders (RL7, 3031, 4895, etc.) up through the slow burning powders (RL19, AA4350, H4831SC, RL22, 3100, etc.) that give around 80% or less loading density under medium to heavy weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 170 - 220+ gr bullets in .30/.31 cals. Those examples are for the .30/.31 cals but the same guidance applies to other calibers. The dacron filler is used only between the powder and base of the bullet.

The “dacron” is polyester fill as commonly found in pillows and toys. It also comes in sheets called “batting”. It can be obtained very reasonably at most any fabric store.

The dacron batting comes in various thicknesses. I prefer that which is about 5/8" thick. My wife recently bought me 10 yards which will give many, many thousands of cast bullet loads. With this current batch of batting I cut it initially across the width into strips about 3/4" wide. I then "eyeball" cut 1/2" wide chunks which is close to 3/4 gr.

A smaller chunk is cut for 1/2 gr and larger for a larger amount. I've cut some chunks that weight 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 grs and have them in a "snack" baggie stuck on a poster board above my loading bench for quick reference when I need to cut new chunks. The batting will run thin and thick throughout the sheet so I again just "eyeball it" based on the thickness of the batting when cutting the chunks.

Pretty extensive tests have demonstrated that the weight of the filler does not have to be exact, only close. What is important is that there is enough so that it “fills" the space between powder and bullet. A little too much hurts nothing but too little poses problems. That's why I have the different size "chunks" so I can use the right size for the case capacity I am filling. For example; with most medium burning powders (3031, 4895, 4064) in and '06 to function an M1 a 3/4 gr dacron filler is about right. With slower powders that give a higher loading density like 4831 a 1/2 gr filler is about right.

I use a section of .22 cal cleaning rod in cartridges of .30 - .375 cal to push the Dacron chunk inside the case just so it is all in. The 6 to 10" section gives plenty to hold onto and sufficient "feel". Merely hold the chunk of dacron over the case mouth and shove it in with the rod. Sometimes it takes a couple three pokes to ensure all is inside the case mouth. I poke the chunks in until all the dacron is at the bottom of the neck or at least all in the case. It doesn’t matter exactly where just so long as you don’t tamp it down on the powder as a wad and leaved a space between the base of the bullet and the dacron.

What you want to do is push it in to let the base of the bullet finish pushing it down and adding any compression against the powder. Thus I do not push it down on the powder but let the bullet do that when the bullet is seated. Using the right size chunk of dacron this method then provides a "filler" in the air space between the powder and base of the bullet.

A small length of coat hanger works for the .22-7mm cartridges and an unsharpened pencil works well for .45 cals. With the charged cases in a loading block I simply hold the chunk of dacron over the case mouth and push it in with the rod. It is quite easy and a lot of “precision is not required, just get the dacron into the case and let the bullet finish pushing it down.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

I tried to work up some 3031 loads for a 45/70 that I had using a dacron filler but finally gave up and just went with Pyrodex.

Shouldn't have been that difficult. Suggest for a starting load with a 400 - 425 gr cast bullet try 35 gr 3031 with a 3/4 dacron filler. It will run close to 1230 fps with less than 20,000 psi (measured with Oehler m43) and accuracy will be excellent. You can work up from there; how much depends on the 45-70 "level" your rifle will take. However, accuracy with PB'd cast begins to deteriorate around 1600 fps.

Larry Gibson

[1Shirt]

I consider Larry a Garu( if thats spelled right) on the subject of dacron fillers. I have been using dac for years when appropriate. I started way back with toilet paper and kapoc fillers, and switched to dac when it became available. It is cheap, and it works.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[TNFrank]

Good morning
Were you trying a reduced load ? If so you would have been better served with Unique up to 1200 fps and 2400 from 1200 fps to 150 fps.
Mike in Peru [smilie=2:

Nope, standard Springfield Trapdoor load for my Sharps Breach loader. According to my notes it was 38grs of RX7(my bad, thought it was 3031) but it still didn't come close to getting the case half full so I wanted to use a dacron filler wad to keep the powder up against the flash hole for better ignition. Either way it was just easier for me to use Pyrodex and fill it up,LOL.