Bullet slides down in 45acp brass?

[grantr]

I have loaded 1200 45 acps with no problems using cast 230 gr and some FMJ 185 Hps. I ordered 100 Rainer plated bullets 200 gr RN from Midway. I had two that didn’t load tight.

One of them I could pull the bullet out of the case with my fingers. Even with a excessive crimp from my lee factory crimp die it still could easily be pushed down into the brass. The plated bullets measure between .451 and .452 with a micrometer. The brass is RP that the bullets are not fitting.

I knew something was different because my press had very little resistance during each step. I thought that was weird so i pushed on the bullet and it slide down in the case! These rounds do not touch the factory crimp sizer.

I am using Lee dies. Any suggestions?

[Lee W]

I stopped using Lee dies years ago just for this reason. Do not use any of those loaded rounds since they will most likely become seated too deep and cause an over pressure situation that will not end well at all.

BTW it is the belling die causing the problem. I would bet it measures 0.451 or very close.

[grantr]

.450 to .465 is the belling die. Not sure how that is a problem. The case has to be belled more that .451 so the bullet will start.

[ku4hx]

I have loaded 1200 45 acps with no problems using cast 230 gr and some FMJ 185 Hps. I ordered 100 Rainer plated bullets 200 gr RN from Midway. I had two that didn’t load tight.

One of them I could pull the bullet out of the case with my fingers. Even with a excessive crimp from my lee factory crimp die it still could easily be pushed down into the brass. The plated bullets measure between .451 and .452 with a micrometer. The brass is RP that the bullets are not fitting.

I knew something was different because my press had very little resistance during each step. I thought that was weird so i pushed on the bullet and it slide down in the case! These rounds do not touch the factory crimp sizer.

I am using Lee dies. Any suggestions?

I had your exact problem with 40 cal plated bullets from Berry's. My "solution" was to reset the taper crimp die to make all neck diameters .416". Yes it pressed pretty hard on the plating, yes they all chambered perfectly, no they were not inaccurate and no the plating didn't separate in the bore.

My ultimate solution was not to buy and more and stick with my cast boolits.

My cases were full length sized once fired Federal Nickle plated that were years past the problem FC had with weak 40 cal cases. Just fondling those little plated pellets showed them to be easily the slickest bullets I'd ever used. Still, they shouldn't have slipped down into the cases the way they did. I didn't call the maker; it just wasn't worth it since I had a work-around.

My taper crimp dies is Lee. If fact, all my taper crimp dies are Lee and all have worked just fine. That's not to say one, or more, can't be sold that won't.

[grantr]

I loaded six RP brass in the batch and all of the these are tight. I held the rounds in my hand and squeezed as hard as I could with my thumb and index finger and the bullets did not move. Maybe some of the plated bullets are not sized correctly? All of the RP brass came from the same box of 50 I bought.

[prs]

I use Lee dies with no such problems; but then again, I load boolits exclusively. The only times I have experienced such poor boolit retention is when the case has been found to have cracked when expanded. Lee dies are reputed to be designed for copper condom bullets with some what smaller expansion dies than what is best for us lead loaders. Perhaps you have an odd oversized powder through/expansion die or maybe got your 45-70 die mixed in with your 45ACP. Or, are you possibly using an M die or Cowboy die as an expander? Either way, other than split case, it is odd you have such loose fit, but no contact with the CFCD.

prs

The last two post above were submitted while I was keyboarding and coffee drinking. So, maybe not all the bullets were .451+ in diameter?

[1bluehorse]

Doesn't make sense for sure...the two bullets that fit "loose", did you mic them. Were they also .452 ?
Did the brass mic the same as the others ? Doubt very much if it's the dies. I mean, do fine for 198 but screw up on two ??????? Either two pieces of brass didn't get sized or two undersized bullets..

[grantr]

All of the rest of the bullets are sized correct. Thats why I only bought 100 to test!

Oce fired. Sized and deprimed. This is the Leee 4 die set for 45acp. None of my die are mixed up.

[slim400]

I would check the expander die I am make sure one of the adjustments had not changed I would also take a look at the case itself I do not know how many times they have been shot but if you are loading close to the maximum charge you can definitely get some stretching that you may not be aware of I would also try once fired case at the original setting and if I had access to it I would find a brand-new case and try it make your own judgments and be careful particularly if these are going to some kind of semi-auto or automatic a deeply seated boolit can change pressures greatly causing bulgeding Casas and in extreme conditions explodeding firearm

hope this help

slim400

[popper]

Just pull the bad ones, mic em. If they are OK, toss the cases, else toss the bullets. A 2% problem is a 2% problem, It's QC. Primary reason I still use a SS press. QC - if it doesn't feel right, stop and check it out. Good thing you caught it.

[grantr]

So it looks like I mush have flaired the case mouth too much. i fired the round wit the sliding bullet. I checked it in the chamber to make sure it didnt get pushed down before firing. I had the flair set for .452 230 grain cast while doing .451 20o grain plated. i guess some of the rem brass was just thin enough to have problems.

I ran the same case back through my press and barely expaned the mouth. This time I can not push the bullet down the case so i guess it was me.

Thanks!

[mpmarty]

Inasmuch as I never use LEE dies for anything I've never encountered this type of problem. My 45acp dies are Dillon in a 550B.

[wallenba]

I picked up one of these a while back for knurling cast boolits. http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/bullet/12000 I found that it can put a knurl on my 45 brass mid-body that prevents setback.

[Echo]

I will not use R-P brass for reloads for my .45's. It is thinner than W or F, and 'way thinner than GI (except GI Match). I give any R-P's I have to my neighbor, whose die set accepts them (I use RCBS dies).
So mike the necks of the R-P's you have, checking for outliers.

[Tim357]

My experience matched Echo's. RP brass has given me muy problems with boolits not fitting tightly. No such problems with either Federal or Winchester.

[George369]

I give all of ny once fired R-P brass away I alson have had problems with it being too thin and cannot be relied upon to always hold the bullet.I have not had this problem with Win. Federal or any G.I brass.

[canyon-ghost]

Remington is a thinner brass, I use Winchester or Starline.

[Michael J. Spangler]

did the case get sized? i was setting up dies once and was testing the crimp. i seated and crimped a bullet using the normal setting for the die, and when i pressed on the bullet it kept falling in.
so i would tighten the crimp and the same thing happened, i did that a few times before i realized when i was testing seating depth and crimp settings on the die i was grabbing unsized brass. the sizing is what holds the boolit in not the crimp, i was looking too deep in to the problem that i didn't see the obvious.

i sized the case and went through the steps again to a perfect seated and crimped boolit that did not slide in to the case anymore

[HangFireW8]

I give all of ny once fired R-P brass away I alson have had problems with it being too thin and cannot be relied upon to always hold the bullet.I have not had this problem with Win. Federal or any G.I brass.

My personal collection of 45ACP brass has lots of thick (and soft) RP and not-so-thick but hard Winchester, with Federal somewhere in between. They're all a few years old, maybe something has changed lately. I like them all, rejecting only MagTech.

I also find it odd that those terrible Lee dies did 1198 cartridges right and 2 wrong. In this case I would look at the components before the dies. Sometimes Lee dies aren't just right for oversized cast boolits. I've had the same issue with Hornady, Redding and RCBS. RCBS makes Cowboy dies for this reason, though I haven't tried them yet. There are plenty of threads here about lapping out sizing and seating dies.

It is not unusual to run into an occasional brass case that has different hardness and springiness than the rest. This is work hardening, it could be from multiple reloading, from an unusual pressure or oversized chamber, or just from a quirk of manufacturing.

It is also not unusual to run into a cast or swaged boolit that is a little smaller than the rest.

If anyone wants to get rid of lots of once fired RP cases, please PM me, I'll cover shipping.

HF

[lead-1]

I also had this problem with Remington brass and now when a round comes off my press I squeeze it to check if the bullet moves. I tightened the crimp down as far as I thought I could and still had the problem, until I figured out the brass was too thin to get a firm hold on the bullet.
My Remington brass doesn't seem to give me the trouble with cast, I figure its because the cast boolits are bigger diameter, jmo.

[Jammer Six]

I've had the same problem with Armscor brass and Berry's plated bullets.

I switched to Hornady jacketed, and the problem went away. I do not appear to have the problem with lead, although I've only used Precision.

I use a Dillon Square Deal, so the dies are Dillon proprietary dies.

[mistermog]

I dont know if this helps but I had the same problem with the 9mm bullets from lee with lee dies, but i took the 9mm powder die out and reset them all and dont have that problem anymore with any brass.

[Blackwater]

I've reloaded the .45 ACP for over 40 years, and over that time, I've found an occasional brass case that just plain had thin necks, and thus, wouldn't hold a bullet securely. 2 in 1200 ain't too far from what my own experience has been, so I don't think I'd blame the die manufacturer, or anything else. It's just something that's going to be encountered on the rare occasion. It's also a good reason to keep alert when reloading. I prefer my old RCBS Reloader Special non-compound linkage press specifically because it keeps me honest. If I don't lube the cases right, it tells me MUCH more reliably than the 4 or 5 Rock Chuckers I've had and sold off. It also is more sensitive in telling me when a bullet seats TOO easily, as you encountered.

Reloading just isn't a past time that's very well suited to those who don't pay attention. Ya' done good, brother! But don't worry about 2 pieces of brass out of 1200. That's a pretty small rate of attrition.

[rockshooter]

another option is to call Lee customer service and order a .45 ACP "u" die. I have one in .40 and .38/357 just for batches of thin brass
Loren