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View Full Version : 30 cal rifle pondering



GREENCOUNTYPETE
03-30-2012, 02:23 PM
30-30 seems like about the ideal size 30 cal cast boolit rifle , allowing 1300-2000 fps with less powder and better ability to go slow than many others
then again using pistol power rather than a rifle powder like h4895 can make the slower rounds even in larger cases like 30-06

i have often thought a 30-30 bolt gun would be very nice , i know there are the Stevens 340 rifles that are out there and that would probably be the least cost

i have also pondered 30-06 and 308 , i like the 30-06 idea better as i don't want to stock another brass or get any more dies right now

is there such a thing as a 1in 12 or 1 in 14 30 cal , that isn't custom seems the slower twist works better with cast and allows a bit more velocity with a bit less work

i have even wondered if a stevens 200 short action 308 could have the barrel cut down and chambered for 30-30 , i was comparing the head of the 308 to 30-30 they measure the same obviously one is rimmed and the other not and in the end it would probably be easier and less expensive to leave it 308 or for that matter just get it in 30-06 so i didn't need different brass and dies , which is why i wonder about slower twist 30-06


i ponder these ideas , but will probably just be watching gun shows for a another reasonably priced marlin 336 looks don't matter much as long as they shoot ,

i am not all that interested in putting pointy bullets in anything
i would rather get the new RD170 mold and have 3 gas check 3 plain base

and in the end if i had more money i might do less pondering , but it answers questions i come up with in my head and in the end is well served as more learning.

i am kind of rambling out loud here , but i wonder if others have these thoughts

firefly1957
03-30-2012, 02:59 PM
I am thinking of getting a mold foe my 10" Contender in 30-30 load it to 1000 f/s it should make a good shooter. I think 1-12 is common on 308 Winchester rifles . I would not conciser .300 savage it is a great cartridge but that short neck is not for cast bullets. (do not hijack his thread if you disagree with me you know the saying about opinions and that is mine)

runfiverun
03-30-2012, 05:59 PM
some of the older 06's had 1-12 twist bbls so did some of the 308's
almost every 30-30 i have seen has a 1-12.
as a matter of fact there is a savage 340 in S&S probably on page 2 now for a very reasonable price.
i have one and still keep looking at it.
the 340 with open sights carrys about like my 94 does.
for a non custom cast boolit friendly caliber the 30-30 is the real deal.

clodhopper
03-30-2012, 09:23 PM
762X39, the short neck is a minus, but the small powder capacity a real plus.
You gotta love the long neck of the 30-30.

Kraschenbirn
03-30-2012, 09:53 PM
I load five different .30 cal. rounds...30-30, .308, .30-06, .30-40, and 7.5 Swiss...and agree that the 30-30 is probably the most flexible but, on the other hand, I've got a personal thing for the .30-40, too. Shooting cast in my Krag carbine, I can duplicate the ballistics of the original military load just as easily as assembling 'powderpuff' loads using 700X and boolits poured from straight range scrap.

Bill

GREENCOUNTYPETE
03-30-2012, 11:13 PM
well like i said i will probably just keep a lookout for used 30-30s at shows

my thinking with the bolt is that they are easier for kids no hammers to ease down if the deer runs off without a shot, but in all reality i should be getting them slug guns any way as our opening weekend deer hunting location is shot gun only
actually my son likes muzzle loading so he can shoot his deer with that in either place 1 more year and he can go on assisted hunts Wisconsin has 1 gun for student hunter and parent starting at 10 , at 12 they can carry their own gun as long as they have had hunters safety and are sight and sound distance till 14.

williamwaco
03-30-2012, 11:26 PM
30-30 seems like about the ideal size 30 cal cast boolit rifle


I love the .30-30 for cast bullets.

Try it. You will too.


.

GREENCOUNTYPETE
03-31-2012, 06:18 AM
I already load for 30-30 for a marlin it was my first cast boolit cartridge

i cast some for muzzle loader before the 30-30

i use a c309-170rf

i was just pondering things

absolutely got to love that long neck

gnoahhh
03-31-2012, 10:30 AM
One do a lot worse than a good used Remington 788 in .30/30. The ultimate .30/30 factory rifle IMO was the Model 54 Winchester bolt action, but they are pretty salty these days. 340's are good utilitarian guns but not likely to win many benchrest competitions. I've been around them for 56 years (counting back to when Pop bought his), and can report astounding accuracy with a couple and mediocre at best with others. Savage didn't lavish the attention on them that they did their lever guns.

I lust after a Ruger #1 in .30/30, as well as consider a high-end custom .30/30 on any good single shot action to be a rifle I would cheerfully grow old with.

There's lots of fun to be had playing with 1903 Springfields and .30/40 Krag-Jörgensens too.

.30/30 Guy
03-31-2012, 10:57 AM
I agree with gnoahhh on the Remington 788 in .30/30 and the Winchester 54.

I love the Savage 99 in .30/30 - surprising accurate.

Best of all is my Winchester 1885 Hi-Wall in .30/30.

gnoahhh
03-31-2012, 01:27 PM
Ha ha! Yes indeed, how could I have left out the Savage 99. One of my all time favorite .30/30's too!

Rockydog
04-01-2012, 10:17 PM
An H&R Handi rifle in 30-30 is a nice little package at a reasonable cost. I've been around one that my buddy has that is a tack driver with jacketed but I've never had the opportunity to try any cast in it. The twist in 30-30 is one in 10. I have one in 45-70 that's never seen anything but cast and it's a good cast shooter. RD

ksriverrat
04-01-2012, 11:16 PM
I am stuck in the same pondering mind set regarding 30 calibers.

As I see at the moment the 30-30 is a must have. Should have never rid myself of the two I had. Both lever actions. Both far more accurate than whats alluded to or blathered about on the interweb forums or gun rags.

The other thing thats blathered about by many is that the 30- 06 is not enough gun in some instances. But what gets me regarding this is how many big bears, Elk & Moose have fallen to the wimpy by comparison 44 mag handgun.
Heck the 44mag falls short of 30-30.
An old rascal of an uncle of mine has guided in Alaska for many years he has 3 rifles 2 stay at the house most of the time. His go to rifle, with very little if any bluing remaining, a BAR in 30-06.
He has taken all sorts of critters with it. Some say he is underpowered going against the big bears & much better served with some thing that can reach miles farther & hit with more authority. If you bring up his BAR 06 being under powered & that he would be better served by a bigger better bear blaster, he will not even enter the conversation.
In fact he'll ignore you & try changing the topic. No since arguing for what he knows has worked for him for 30 plus years.
With so many calibers at our disposal I think at times it is amazing what 1 man can acomplish with 1 rifle in a supposed anemic for the task caliber.

Then I am reminded once again of what a good number of folks have done with the 44 mag handgun.

But that dang gun bug has a terrible, ferocious bite & the fever that follows, once it takes a set, seems to be perpetual. No one after stricken with it can have just one!

starmac
04-02-2012, 12:25 AM
On the alaska forums, one of the guys that lives in the bush, has a sig line that says.
If you can't kill it with a 30/06 hide. I always thought that to be good info. lol

missionary5155
04-02-2012, 06:09 AM
Good morning
I have to throw in my vote for the 30/40 Krag. Nice long neck on that wonderful rimmed case. And when you want to get into 220 grainers or heavier boolits you still have plenty of powder space to push that monolinth past 2000 FPS. You can pick up a good cut down Krag for $250 and have a great , tough, ready to go over the mountain with you rifle that can handle any critter out there. KRAG for President !
Mike in Peru

Moonie
04-02-2012, 08:56 AM
As Townsend Whelen said "The 30-06 is never a mistake". I just got my first one, will be shooting my 245gr Accurate boolits in it.

gnoahhh
04-02-2012, 10:49 AM
Yep, if an 'all-around' .30 rifle is called for let it be an '06 or .30/40- both proven cast shooters with the ability to to be loaded with (gasp) jacketed stuff if the situation demands that kind of performance. My earlier response was geared toward a dedicated cast bullet .30 rifle.

GREENCOUNTYPETE
04-03-2012, 12:05 PM
06 is also covered , and the first rifle i ever bought age 14

if any one is interested , there is a sears 30-30 on the Wisconsin arms list for 200 my understanding is that the sears was a Winchester 94 with a beach stock

I be flat broke at the moment , so it's fair game to any of you looking

1Shirt
04-03-2012, 12:30 PM
For my 2 cents worth, I would go with a 308 based on the availability of brass, and reloadability. Will do any thing a 30-30 will do and then some. There are a number of Stevens and Savage bolt actions that are plain Janes, that shoot like a million dollars. Nothing wrong with 30-30, and think you ought to have one as well as a 308.
1Shirt!

Marlin Junky
04-03-2012, 01:53 PM
Without knowing more about your shooting preferences, it's kinda hard to help. With that said, if you're looking for versatility, flexibility and accuracy potential all rolled into one, go with a bolt action 30-'06 or .308. If I were to buy another factory '06, I would check throat length before taking it home. If you want to throw economy into the equation, the 30-30 may be the solution; however, you might be happier with a 788 than a 340. The Savage 340 with it's one action screw and barrel band can be a problem. Leverguns are fun, but can have draw backs that get in the way of accuracy (e.g., springy actions and 2-piece stocks... not to mention, they are simply more fun to shoot w/o scopes). It really comes down to your shooting style and what floats your boat. I really enjoyed my time shooting the old 336's with .004-.005" deep grooves (and 10" twists, BTW) but have moved on (at least for now) because I'm more interested in cast boolit varminters (to a couple hundred yards or so).

MJ

GREENCOUNTYPETE
04-03-2012, 04:54 PM
Without knowing more about your shooting preferences, it's kinda hard to help. With that said, if you're looking for versatility, flexibility and accuracy potential all rolled into one, go with a bolt action 30-'06 or .308. If I were to buy another factory '06, I would check throat length before taking it home. If you want to throw economy into the equation, the 30-30 may be the solution; however, you might be happier with a 788 than a 340. The Savage 340 with it's one action screw and barrel band can be a problem. Leverguns are fun, but can have draw backs that get in the way of accuracy (e.g., springy actions and 2-piece stocks... not to mention, they are simply more fun to shoot w/o scopes). It really comes down to your shooting style and what floats your boat. I really enjoyed my time shooting the old 336's with .004-.005" deep grooves (and 10" twists, BTW) but have moved on (at least for now) because I'm more interested in cast boolit varminters (to a couple hundred yards or so).

MJ

cast boolit varminters (to a couple hundred yards or so).

What are you shooting as a cast boolit varminter

it sounds interesting , what cal , and twist are you shooting what kind of velocities do you run

when i think varmanter , i think 22cal like 223, 222, 22-250 going 3-4k fps with jackets that go flat for 2-300 yards

excess650
04-03-2012, 05:23 PM
I am DEFINITELY a 30-06 fan. I have (3) for now, a couple of 30-30s, a .308 and a 7.62x39.

My Remington 700 30-06 is plenty accurate, will handle heavy and light boolits and loads, and isn't all that fussy. For heavy loads it uses more powder than the 30-30. Too my mid 50sHusqvarna 30-06 acts almost exactly like the 1967 vintage 700. I'm just beginning to work with my 1st year 700 30-06 carbine, but am expecting good things from it.

My 30-30s are a Marlin 336CB with 24" octagon barrel and a Savage 99 carbine (yeah flat topped butt, carbine buttplate, and barrel band). The Marlin is the better shooter of the two, but seems to prefer modest loads.

My 7.62x39 is a CZ527 and its absolutely stellar with cast. In fact, I've never fired a single round of jacketed through it. My 160gr (Lee C309-150-F)are running near full throttle over 24gr H322. I've shot compressed charges of the same powder, but this seems to be a best load hot or cold.

My 308 is a Remington 700VS. It has the longest throat of all of my 30cals. The only boolit that I have that will stay more than halfway down the neck and contact in the throat is the 311284. I haven't shot cast out of it yet, but the previous owner did and it shot fine groups. The throat fit has me puzzled...rounds loaded to contact with the rifling won't function through the magazine. GRRRRRR!

Oh, and I have a couple or 3 K31s in 7.5x55. I really like 'em and they're fine cast shooters with the same capacity as the 30-06 but slightly slower 1-10.65" twist. they wouldn't be much good for a youngster with their odd safety, however.

The Marlin 1894C in 357 is another favorite of mine. Most of them have the crossbolt safety, so that shouldn't be a concern. Recoil is modest even with heavy 185gr loads. They can be shot with barrel sights, receiver sight, or centrally mounted scope. They're definitely light and handy, but not inexpensive.

DeanWinchester
04-03-2012, 05:46 PM
As usual I seem to be the odd man out. I had mediocre results with 30/30 and never cared for the 30/06 to cast for the few rifles I've ever owned in it. The .308 and I however seem to be two peas in a pod. I have had so much luck casting for it it's unreal. Not to mention the recoil is as manageable as a 30/30 and if [God forbid] I decide to stick some of them copper condoms down the bore, I can get darn close to a 30/06 in the weights my rifle likes.

Marlin Junky
04-03-2012, 05:47 PM
For now I'm concentrating more on lubes that will keep me in one hole out to 100 yards. Obviously, one is going to need boolits that really fit their gun in order to do this but so far I've been able to achieve the goal at 75 yards with Lee c309-170 and a '51 vintage M70 30-'06. At near 1900 fps it's pretty easy to do this for 3 shots but there's usually a flyer thrown in that opens a 5-shot group to an inch or so at 75 yards. Alloy up to now has been fairly soft in the 13-16 BHN range and powders have been on the slow side (for the application) in the Re7 to 4895 range.

There's lots of possibilities for varmint rounds when it comes to using cast boolits but for now I'm working with the .30 cal's using mid-weight boolits with a typical meplat which have a B.C. advantage over the .22's. One can probably get .22 caliber boolits cast of a high Sb alloy to blow up on varmints but velocity is a rapidly diminishing variable when dealing with 50-ish grain projectiles having BC's < .200; therefore, I elected to see how the bigger boolits perform first. Incorporating a range finder should increase the success factor assuming the accuracy holds to a couple hundred yards or so. Actually, the main reason I decided to start with .30 caliber is the adequate selection of molds readily available. Otherwise, I probably would have started with a 7-08 utilizing a custom barrel and a 12" twist... which I very well may end up using. Ease of assembling ammo in the upper regions of the small bore category is also a plus opposed to fussing over .22 caliber castings.

MJ

P.S. A 30-'06 is not a .308W and they have different boolit requirements. I thought my 30-'06 was "shot-out" until I started using boolits that fit it.

P.P.S. I almost forgot, .30 cal's are within the realm of being easily paper patched and relatively easy to cast in hollow point molds too. A hollow pointed 160-180 grain PP boolit should be devastating even at long range if launched at 2500 fps or so.

runfiverun
04-03-2012, 09:14 PM
your 22 cals can be pushed into the 3 k area.
i have easily gotten 2700+ with the 223.

pushing 3 k in the slower twist 250/220 swift should be doable.
i started with my h/v 223 load in the 250/swift and they performed just fine,[by just fine i mean @ 1/2" at 100 yds] so i bumped them up another grain.
there is more to just casting and shooting them though.
i have had some very good luck with a 4/6/90 alloy and swaging the weight culled boolits to bump the nose larger and shorter for the 250's throat.
the little flat on them is right dangerous to small animals,especially @ 2800 fps.

MT Gianni
04-03-2012, 09:45 PM
The ideal wildcat 30 cal for a caster might be a necked down '06 to 308 Win with the neck length of a 30-30. Plentiful brass, common case size, [shoot 308 in a pinch].

Marlin Junky
05-03-2012, 03:52 PM
30-'06 vs. .308W kinda comes down to what molds one has available. The typical '06 needs a .311" boolit (for the best accuracy) that's long enough to reach the rifling. In my '06, for example, Lee c309-170 sized .311" (even when cast out-of-round on the nose with a shimmed mold) and seated to 3.135" in my M70 always beats very, very round RCBS 30-165-SIL boolits sized .310" (also seated to touch the rifling) while using the same alloy, same charge of 4759 and same lube. The .310" 30-165-SIL will also foul the barrel first when shot rapidly (rounds per minute, not fps) with the same lube (BAC) at 1800-1850 fps.

MJ

Harter66
05-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Why not use a Savage 10 or 110 w/a 30-30 bbl? A fella could even bbl an ol'beat up truck gun Mauser for it pretty inexpensively. I mean you did say that the rims are very close 308/Mauser/06' and 30-30. I have a Carcano that is on its way to becoming a 32 Win Spcl (actually a 32 Rem its mine leave it alone).

Another possiblity is necking 6.8 Rem back up to 30 cal in your 30-30 dies you just need a bolt action 762-39 w/a 30-30 bbl. A Carcano would be suited to this and they are still plenty cheap...er ...cost effective. Mine will except by advertised dimentions a large ring bbl . For about $250 and some well spent time you have a bolt action 30-30 clip or single fed custom 1 off very light compact rifle.

Marlin Junky
05-03-2012, 05:21 PM
The 6.5x52 Carcano has a .450" rim while the .30 and .32 Rem's have .422" rims... wouldn't that result in kind of a sloppy fit?

Has anyone successfully converted a Mauser (or any other claw type extractor action; e.g., Ruger short action M77) for the 30-30 with slightly modified (turned down) rims/extractor grooves? Loading the magazine box may be slower with the modified 30-30 cases than with a true rimless case; however, Winchester successfully chambered the M54 and the M70 for the 225 Winchester which is nothing more than a modified 30-30 case.

MJ

Harter66
05-03-2012, 06:04 PM
It may be a little off . I have a list of cartridges that will "fit" my Carcano action. Once the head and shoulder are tight and the case is fire formed I shouldn't matter accuracy wise for a field gun. I've measured the .473 family and had rims and heads from .465 up to .478. W/my 32Rem I've used shell holders ,w/mixed results, for 40S&W 357 and 762-39 the 6.8/25/30/32 shell holders don't seem to be a really avaible shelf item. If 1 is turning their own rims they can be what ever you need them to be as in my case . I have formed split neck Rem cases and 6.8s to 7.62-39 w/o functional issues . I do think .027 might make a difference w/a stuck case or in the loading press but I don't believe it would be a major issue w/nominal loads . My Carcano action has a very wide Mauser style extracor the catches about 1/4 of the cartridge rim and is forced off the bolt side w/357 as well as 762-39 _cases . It never occured to me to try a Rem case as the parts only became availible about 36hr ago and won't be in hand for another week. I could be all wet might not work at all .

The 35 Rem is the one they wildcatted ,6.5/35 Rem for the action. I have looked at many options for this action and excepted that the bolt face might have to be worked or the brass might have to be customized.