"Safe Stop" type boolits?

[John in WI]

I recently picked up a nice police trade in Smith and Wesson .38.

I was digging around on the web, and came across some info on a now discontinued round called the Safe-stop

It looked like a jacketed full wadcutter design, but with a deep V-groove cut across the face. I guess the idea was that the bullet would rip in half on impact. It sounded like about 5 years ago they were all the rage, but that the maker got out of the game.

Anyone have info about them? Or a guess at how you could modify a commercial bullet into a similar design? would it be as simple as taking a jacketed wad cutter, putting it in some type of jig, and cutting a deep V across the front?

It seemed like an interesting idea. I guess my problem with using full wad cutters is just that they are a bugger to load from a speed loader!

[John in WI]

42785


I forgot, here was an image that someone posted on the web

[Mk42gunner]

Never heard of them, but I guess the v-groove might make it easier for the bullet to break up on a steel backstop.

Truthfully, I have no interest in searching for any of these projectiles to try out since I don't shoot on indoor ranges anymore.

Robert

[ku4hx]

Interesting article here on "Dum Dum" bullets which is basically what these are:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot32.htm

Neither variety, single or cross cut, were much of a success as hoped.

[John in WI]

Hmm, thanks for that ku4hx,
Looks like the old Box-o-truth is telling us that it doesn't do a whole lot of good until you get up to .30-06 kinds of velocities, where the boolits seem to just blow apart on impact.

[mdi]

It seems like a manufacturer would test ammo like this before putting it on the market. Or maybe they are hoping they'd sell just because of it's "looks"?...

[ku4hx]

It seems like a manufacturer would test ammo like this before putting it on the market. Or maybe they are hoping they'd sell just because of it's "looks"?...

A large part of it is marketing. Every [bullet] company wants you to buy their product and they try and get you to do that with claims of superiority, lower cost or whatever. Think of all the exercise equipment you see in infomercials in the off hours of the day. How many different devices do you need? Same for just about anything really.

All they need to do really is make a modest profit and if they can do that and then discontinue sales they better off for it. A lot of small companies just don't have the R&D budgets the Winchesters, Remingtons and others have so the public ends up being the "beta" testers. Somebody somewhere will buy just about anything.

[Texantothecore]

According to the "Handbook of Ballistics", the garden variety wadcutter is more effective than the hollow point. So this was probably just another variation on that theme.

Marketing is the key to understanding some of the ammo offerings that come out on occasion. They are testing to see if anyone is going to buy them and use them because they are new and different which are powerful sales points for "Early Adopters".

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

shoot some 2x4s , the bigger and flatter the nose of the bullet the faster it stops



i was shooting 2x4s with a jhp 40 and it would clog and go thru 3+ 2x4s going thru 1.5 inches per board then some factory fmj 40 with a fairly flat nose 2 and stop in the against the face of the 3rd i should retest with some 401-175TC

the 9mm fmj or jhp zipped thru all 3 2x4s and into the back stop every time the hole looked like a drill went thru

i have also heard that light weight 40-50 gr 22 cal varmint bullets going 3k+fps break up quick and the pieces loose energy quick when going thru walls , i will have to test that some day , with a box at the range

my house is old enough 1909 that there is some benefit to 2x4 that are really 2x4 and lath and plaster and wood sheathing under wood siding , the interior walls are 6-7 inches thick the exterior are about 8 inches

my old house had walls 16 inches thick and were 1870s brick

[Chicken Thief]

Look at the 12 gauge door breakers.
Cintered copper/brass, that will shatter a lock but is safe for humans just 3-4 feet behind the door.

So a handgun shotshell that is reinforced with wax maybe?

Swaged lead pellets?

Some http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Blandet/Smilere/Brainfart.gif from me

[John in WI]

I guess that's kind of my question---the best load for a .38 for light recoil and decent stopping power. The .38 was for my fiance. I love shooting. She doesn't mind it--but keeps complaining about all the gizmos on my CZ-82 and Ruger 9mm.

So, for a shooter who's not really into it, it seems like a DA revolver is the way to go. No safeties to fumble with, no magazines dropping out the bottom if you don't seat them right... When you pull the trigger, it goes "bang". When it's empty, you dump them out...

I kind of like the wadcutter design, and am thinking of going that route. At least keep the cylinder stuffed with them, and the speedloader with something that is easier to load.

The crushing power of a wadcutter, and the excellent penetration I've seen on the Bullet Catcher ballistics gel videos on youtube make me think I wouldn't feel under-gunned with them. They were getting 12-14" penetration with really moderate velocities.

[Houndog]

A wadcutter loaded to starting velocity makes a good all purpose round for a semi-nonshooter or someone that's recoil sensitive. My Wife and Daughter both started with such a load and finally moved up to my "standard" 158gr SWC over 5 gr Unique. If you REALLY want to see expansion load a swaged hollow based wadcutter backwards! They aren't much for penetration, but the spent slug comes out about quarter size.

[John in WI]

Thanks Houndog--I've heard a lot about "old timers" loading hollow based wadcutters backwards, but haven't been able to find any specifics on it.

Do you think I could just find a recipe for a HBWC, and follow it except for installing the boolit backwards? I'd be really interested to try it--it might be just the ticket for some close range whallop. I'm looking for something that would excel in the 0--15' range. As for not having great penetration, if it could get it to go through a good 6-8" of wetpack phone books, and come out the size of a quarter, I'd call that a pretty effective round!

If nothing else, it would be fun to blow up milk jugs with it.

[Cherokee]

John. a conventional loaded HBWC (flat face up) will not go thru 6-8" of wetpack. However, a load of 2.7 Bullseye should work nicely for the ladies.
This "old timer" tried the backward loaded HBWC, they were OK but not worth the effort IMO.

[John in WI]

Thanks Cherokee--I just finished doing some reading on the upside down loaded HBWC's and there's one thing that scares me about them--the skirt ripping off and obstructing the barrel. That would be about the worst possible thing that could happen in an HD situation. Your gun blowing up on you! The chances are pretty small, but still, it has been known to happen.

I saw some pictures of something that looked like a wadcutter, but the "hollow point" was just a huge, shallow bowl shaped depression across the face. Do they make wadcutters with a base like that?