Plain Cast Bullet or with Gas Checks

[JohnnyFlake]

I am on the hunt for a .45 Colt Lever Gun with a barrel length of between 18.5" and 24", with my preference being 24".

To help increase velocity and distance, is it better to use Cast Bullets with Gas Checks over plain Hard Cast Bullets? I plan on developing a load for a 270gn or 280gn Keith Style bullet.

Any ideas on what the difference would be?

[runfiverun]

thats a good plan. it won't work without some effort, but a good plan.
rossi makes a 20" carbine,a 20" short rifle.and a 24" octagon
remarlin makes something, maybe, if they are backing them.
i have heard of a 44 popping up.
leverguns have an oal issue, they will only move rounds of a certain length from the tube onto the lifter and lift it into place past the little ramp on the bottom of the bbl, where the bolt face picks up the rim and shoves the round forward towards the chamber.
the length of the round matters here too. as it must cam over and aim into the chamber as the bolt starts pushing it.
the boolit glances off the roof of the chamber and the rim slides through a widened spot in the side rails as it raises up into straight alignment with the chamber.
the bolt slides forward with the rim sliding under the extractor and the lugs lock into place.

you can modify a couple of things to make the swc type boolits work in some guns.
i modified my lifter and took a little off the bbl ramp in one of my 44 mags to work with the 429241 in the crimp groove.
i could have used shorter brass.
or to use the 454424 in all 4 of my 45 colts i seated the boolit like a swc in a 45 acp and crimped over the front drive band.
which lowered my case capacity.
i use plain base non hard cast [i find casting easy] in mine.
and really see no difference in 19 grs under a 452664, and only 9 grs of unique under the slightly heavier swc type boolits, except about 500 fps in favor of the rnfp.

[Nobade]

I have a Marlin 1894CB 45 Colt. From time to time I have tried really heavy loads in it, way more than SAAMI spec for pressure. Even at stupid high pressures that made the lever unlock at the shot it worked fine with plain base boolits. Check out Ranch Dog's 455-290 that is made for lever guns. I don't think you could find a better boolit for them, and his moulds make 6 at a time. Lust tumble lube and load, after you make a correctly sized expander plug for your die.

[Larry Gibson]

I've 2 Lever rifles in 45 Colt; a Rossi M92 with 24" barrel and Uberti M73 with 20" barrel. I have also shot several other rifles (M92s/M94s and M73s) of various barrel lengths. I find with PB'd cast bullets, especially any with a bevel that accuracy isn't best over 1150 fps or so. True FB'd ones cast hard can be pushed a little higher to close to 1400 fps. My testing was with 190 to 260 gr PB'd bullets.

With my 245 gr GC'd 452490 cast soft for expansion I have puhed to 1500+ fps out of the M92 and another 24" M94 to 1500+ fps with excellent accuracy. Accuracy with this bullet was always better above 1200 fps in every rifle (note; I did not push the M73s above 1200 fps with any bullet) than with any PB'd cast bullet.

If you intend loads below 1200 fps a PB'd bullet will be fine. If you intend to push above that then I suggest a GC'd bullet for best accuracy and that you get a M92, a Win M94 or the Marlin M94.

Larry Gibson

[felix]

If possible, investigate the chamber before purchase. Large chambers will destroy brass over time when loads are heavy. Take dummy loaded rounds into the store having various sized boolits seated. If the intention for the gun is cowboy loads, no need for the embarrassing checkout in public. ... felix

[Ziptar]

I would recommend a 20" barrel. Best combination of carry, handling, and velocity.

For the bullets I don't think you'll find any better than the 45-270-SAA. It is a modified Keith bullet originally designed for use in the Colt Single Action Army. Originallyit was sold by RCBS but, Miha from MP molds makes an excellent version, better then RCBS's.

http://www.ziptar.com/bullet_casting/MF_45-270-SAA_02_sm.jpg

Excellent write up of it here: http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf

Its currently my absolutley most favorite bullet, weighs in at ~285 grains. I like mine plain based and solid nosed over 10 grains of unique. I sometimes load 9 or 11 but, 10 seems to be the sweet spot. I shoot them sized to .452 in a Marlin 1894 with a Microgroove Barrel.

OAL is ~1.58". It feeds smooth and perfectly, I have yet to have a single one not feed exactly as it should in about 750 so far.

Dead nuts accurate at 100 yards (the range at my club stops there.), no bullet drop practically at all. Its all the bullet you'll ever need if you could only have one. Theres no need for additional velocity or gas checks either, it'll do the job a plenty without it.

Miha still has some available from his last re-run.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=112739&page=16