Win '73 .32WCF Still Tumbling

[FromTheWoods]

We have followed some of you members' advice and tried Alliant 2400 and Desperado Soft Cast bullets.

Still getting random tumblers.

1873 Winchester DOM=1886 .32-20
Desperado .313
8.5, 8.7, 9.0 grains Alliant 2400.

The "official" data I have lists 9.0 grains as the maximum. I have read that some reloaders go beyond that. Do you folks have sources that list a heavier load that would be safe in the '73?

At present, I'm wondering if we need a bit more of a slap on the base of the bullet to get it to more snuggly fit the bore. Is my assumption of a heavier charge going to expand the base a bit more?

[excess650]

Have you slugged the bore? What is the inside diameter of the necks of fired cases?

I don't recommend that you load hot in a '73. I do recommend that you load as large diameter boolit that will chamber. Harder isn't necessarily good.

I have a .311008 that casts in excess of .314".....

[JeffinNZ]

Sounds like an undersized boolit to me. I shoot .314 also.

[FromTheWoods]

Whew! You fellows are quick! Thank you.

Yes, my youngest son slugged his rifle's bore. He came out with .315.

I was concerned that a larger bullet would not chamber, but--Duh!--I should have checked the case-mouth diameter.
I just remembered that one person's advice was to measure the mouth of a fired case--I neglected to do that. I'll get on it.

[runfiverun]

313 don't fit 315.
you are on track now.

[FromTheWoods]

Inside the mouth is .322. Outside is .332.

Where does a non-caster find .314 and .315 bullets?

[runfiverun]

you'll be looking for 316-317 actually.
you could look at carolina cast bullets.
i don't know what jerry has though.
i would have a mold made to get a 73 up and going myself, as i really love the old winchesters.
but lack the funds to get anything more than an old shooter 94.
if i had something that would work i would just send you some, but i have nothing suitable.

[FromTheWoods]

Been looking, but can't find the larger diameter bullets to try out.

Would it be unsafe to set a bullet in a cylinder, give it a perfect rap or two on the front of the bullet to attempt to expand the sides, reload it, and fire it? --to help determine what diameter this rifle needs in order to ask a manufacturer to run a batch for me. ????

[supertodd]

Fromthe Woods- I would email some of the commercial casters and see if its possible to get an oversized bullet or if they offer anything in a hollowbase design. Or you might try posting a want ad for the diameter of 32 caliber bullet you want in the classified section. Hi- I'm also in OR.

[popper]

I asked Jerry for .311 which he didn't have, now it's on his site. I asked, he provided and they are good, GC as well.

[runfiverun]

you could bump up a boolit.
i bump 379's up in my 44 swage die to 430 they aren't perfect in the lube groove area, but they do shoot quite well.
a slightly shorter cylinder at 316 internally and squeeze in a vice would produce pretty consistent results.

[w30wcf]

You can bump up a bullet in your seating die. Take a fired case and cut off a piece of 5/16" steel rod (hardware store) to a length that when inserted into the case will be at least 1/3 of the way into the case neck from the bottom of the case.

Square the end of the rod. A lathe would be the preferred method.

Adjust the seating die so that it does not crimp. Drop a bullet into the case neck and run it up unto the die. Turn down the seating screw until it touches the top of the bullet. Back the case out slightly and turn the screw 1/4 of a turn and run the case back up into the die. Measure the bullet. Keep adjusting until the desired diameter is achieved.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Another option is to use PSB (Polyethylene Shot Buffer). It acts as a gas check and will keep the gas behind the bullet allowing it to transverse the barrel undisturbed.

I have a '73 Winchester in 44 WCF that has an oversized barrel (.433"). .428" diameter bullets were hopelessly inaccurate as you can imagine. I used PSB over H4227 and the accuracy was much improved.....no more keyholes and 1 1/2" groups at 50 yards!:smile:

w30wcf

[doctorggg]

hi,
i have an 1873 winchester made in early 1886. The barrel has good rifling and slugs at .428. the barrel has lots of pitting. Would you gentlemen fire cast boolits with full power black powder loads in this rifle? I've been told the bore would be especially hard to clean.
Greg

[canyon-ghost]

When you load a larger bullet, be sure and back off that powder charge! I'd go back to starting out slow and working upwards. No need to hotrod an old veteran rifle.

[Tracy]

8x22 Nambu uses a .320 jacketed or .321-.323 lead bullet that is the correct length (about 110 grains). If you can find a source of cast bullets for the Nambu, you can probably get a custom sizer die from Lee to make them a diameter you can use.
RCBS makes a Nambu mould. Personally, I would buy a mould and start casting.

[FromTheWoods]

Thank You for the comments, Fellows.

We do use Original Shot Buffer in our "normal" loads for this rifle--and they are quite accurate. But, we would like to reload on our progressive press without removing the casing to add the shot buffer.

That method of bumping the bullet in the seating die sounds like a much better way to use than the ones I was imagining. Much more controlled and precise.

I just thought of another question--Why do jacketed .312's shoot accurately in this rifle if the bore is .315?

(doctorggg: If you move your question to a new post, I suspect the members would be very helpful in answering it.)

[9.3X62AL]

Likely because the j-words are getting sufficient purchase on the rifling to be supported and spun in the bore. Jacketed bullets can get away with dimensional differences that lead/cast boolits cannot, owing to their much softer surfaces and metallurgy.

I can only imagine the gas pressure flowing past a .322" cartridge mouth--over a 312" bullet--into a .315" groove diameter. That's a generous chamber--thicker brass (Starline) might take up some of that slack.

[FromTheWoods]

Much of his brass is Starline.

[w30wcf]

From The Woods,
In thinking about this a bit further, I remembered that I have an RCBS 98 gr mold that drops w.w. bullets at .315"-316" diameter. I lube them in an oversized die then run them nose first into a Lee .311" diameter push through die for "Short Range" loads in my 30-30's.

I just checked and have 10 bullets that were left as cast. If you will PM your address, I'll send them to you to see if they would work to your satisfaction.

If they do, I would suggest getting Accurate Molds to make you a mold that will drop bullets at the proper diameter.

Regarding the accuracy of the jacketed bullets, 9.3X62AL is correct. I find that the Hornady 200 gr. XTP (.430'") shoots very well in the old Winchester even though it is .003" undersized.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

hi,
i have an 1873 winchester made in early 1886. The barrel has good rifling and slugs at .428. the barrel has lots of pitting. Would you gentlemen fire cast boolits with full power black powder loads in this rifle? I've been told the bore would be especially hard to clean.
Greg

Yes, I would. I have a similar '73 and shoot black powder in it. It definitely requires more patches to clean. What will shorten the job quite a bit would be to make a fitting with a hose and funnel attached that could be placed into the chamber and hot water dumped through the barrel.

A fired 44-40 case drilled out to accept a 3/8" diameter fitting with the hose and funnel attached works well.

In firing, the fouling will build up quickly in the grooves and accuracy will start to deteriorate. I have used duplex loads to keep things running much better (4 grs 4227 or 4759 under 30 grs of b.p.)

The "Big Lube" bullets (MAV 200) offered by Springfield Slim are definitely a plus to keep things running well for multiple shots with straight b.p.
http://hstrial-mwhyte2.homestead.com/BigLube.html

w30wcf

[lbaize3]

Here is a good read on loads for the 32-20

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3220wcf.htm

[w30wcf]

FromTheWoods,
In addition to the RCBS 98's (post #20) I have some Hornady .314" hollow base WC's I could send as well.

w30wcf