Gas check design bullet without a gas check?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Will they work okay at low velocities (think 1200-1300 fps out of a 30-06) or am I just asking for trouble?

[Iron Mike Golf]

They can and lots of folks have had success with them checkless. Keep in mind, you end up with a complex shape on the base, which is the most critical for accuracy. There is more room for imperfections and you'll need more care during inspection.

[44man]

It can work or fail, needs tested.
The problem I had was the loss of the drive area so the boolit no longer matched the twist rate. It made the boolit too short.

[Moonie]

It can work or fail, needs tested.
The problem I had was the loss of the drive area so the boolit no longer matched the twist rate. It made the boolit too short.

Now that is an interesting statement. None of the twist calculators I've ever seen asked for the length of the full diameter of a projectile, are they (and I) missing something?

[44man]

Sounds crazy, I know but with a 30-30 contender I was shooing pennies and nickels at 100 yards. I ran out of checks so I left them off and every boolit hit the paper sideways at 50. I have no other explanation.

[Wolfer]

I've had good luck in my 8mm Mauser with the lee 175 gr and 7 gr of clays. Accurate ,pleasant and quiet. I didn't shoot them over a crono but I felt they were subsonic

[M-Tecs]

I've had excellent results in my 45/70 with 405’s and 10 gr of Unique . Fun plinking load and very accurate. On this load accuracy is no different with or without the GC and I have shot thousands both ways.

I also shoot a lot of handgun in light to medium loads with no discernible issues. If I push them hard I use the GC but I have never compared “hotter” loads for accuracy with and without GC’s.

In my mind it’s not a lot different the than shooting a bevel base bullet. The common training of thought is that PD will shot better than BB in the same design. I have H&G 68’s in both BD and BB and I can’t tell any deference in accuracy. Out of a Ransom rest both will do less than 2” at fifty yards with my 1911.

[nwellons]

I shoot the Lee C430-310-RF with BP and no checks in my .42 Berdan. Works great.

[Ola]

The problem I had was the loss of the drive area so the boolit no longer matched the twist rate. It made the boolit too short.

Sounds crazy, I know but with a 30-30 contender I was shooing pennies and nickels at 100 yards. I ran out of checks so I left them off and every boolit hit the paper sideways at 50. I have no other explanation.

This is interesting indeed. The shorter the boolit the easier it is to stabilise (it is not the weight it self; heavier bullets just are usually longer).

IMO the bullets length was NOT the problem. If it works with GC (longer) it should absolutely work without (shorter).

I can think at least 2 possible reasons:

-the loss of drive area caused the rifling not getting a grip of the bullet. If the drive area of the boolit is short, maybe.. (combined with stout load even more so).

-the lack of GC caused critical velocity loss. More slippery bullet because there is not a hard GC dragging -> lower pressure -> Just enough less speed to not stabilise the boolit?

-combination of the 2 above?

(-the problem might also be caused by bullet seating mistake, not enough flare and destroyed bullets bases. But not in this case cause 44man knows what he is doing).

44man: what boolit was this? And the load?

[Bret4207]

And the question gets asked for 9,457th time.......

[Ola]

Bret, if there is a thread about this some where, just tell me where to look. I really would like to know what kind of a bullet 44man is talking about.

[Catshooter]

Bret . . . :brokenima[smilie=1:


Cat

[Casper29]

I have shot. Some in my lubisizer 45 colt and they worked well at short range 15 to 25order yards. Just make sure that the bottom is full of lube were the check should go.

[Bret4207]

There is an entire whole giant sized section down the page titled "GAS CHECKS" that was specifically created because people ask the same questions about gas checks over and over and over. But people apparently can't look around in the section that would seem to apply to their questions. For that matter, they can't go back through this section and see that the exact same question gets asked here at least 3 times a month for the past 5 years.

Gets a little baffling after a while.

[44man]

Bret, if there is a thread about this some where, just tell me where to look. I really would like to know what kind of a bullet 44man is talking about.
I had to dig through a hundred molds but I found it. It is the RCBS 308-165-sil boolit. It was cast very hard and was so stinking accurate at 100 I think I could have lit a match with a scoped TC Tender from the bench.
I sold the gun long ago along with my load info but I might have used 4759. I wish I could remember and I E mailed my friend but he did not answer.
Leaving the check off was a disaster. I had perfect sideways holes at 50 yards. Load work did not help.
You just need to test your boolit from your gun, many work just fine. Some could be better without a check.

[Ola]

Ok. The drive area IS short compared to the OAL of the boolit. So maybe this design absolutely needs the GC to work because without the check the drive are is just too short.

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=3380&route=C12J059

[williamwaco]

I find that they shoot fine at low velocity - 1000 - 1200 fps

I find that they do not lead with the gas check missing even at relatively high velocity 1800 +/-

But at much over 1400, accuracy goes to hell. I am talking about four to five FOOT groups at 50 yards.


Will they work okay at low velocities (think 1200-1300 fps out of a 30-06) or am I just asking for trouble?

I would predict they will be fine at 1,000. I would not bet either way at 1,300. I would bet "no" at 1,400 - 1,500. Note that this opinion is based on results with only one gun and one bullet.

Thompson Contender .30-30 with the Lee 309-170-F


.

[popper]

Didn't work for me in 310-170 with TL, light or heavy loads. I think it invites gas cutting. Groups were 5 x same load with GC.

[Wolfer]

My experience has been exactly like williamwacos.
30-30 and 8mm mauser.
I used clays and I believe faster powders like BE and red dot are better than say unique IMO.

[rogn]

Ive used them with loads from about 1050FPS to about 1400 FPS in a 7mm WSM. They would shoot into <2" rested, but not bench rested. I never went faster as All I anted was a practice load.. Nevr leaded or turned off . Always hit point first out to about 160 yds.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

There is an entire whole giant sized section down the page titled "GAS CHECKS" that was specifically created because people ask the same questions about gas checks over and over and over. But people apparently can't look around in the section that would seem to apply to their questions. For that matter, they can't go back through this section and see that the exact same question gets asked here at least 3 times a month for the past 5 years.

Gets a little baffling after a while.

My apologies...