Wasted Wheel Weights

[cgrivois]

I’ve got a sickening feeling that I wasted a couple of hours and even worse a couple of hundred pounds of wheel weights. Smelted up a bunch of ww I had sitting in the shed into nice 5 pound ingots the other night. Wanted to try out my new lee six banger mould but couldn’t get one single bullet to fill out. Kind of like small waves around the sides. Figured it had to be the mould, so I got out the two banger, which I know worked from the day before, and same thing. I’m sure I had both moulds and the pot plenty hot. Only thing I can figure is that I contaminated my batch with some zinc weights. Used my Lyman thermo during smelting process, never got above 750. Just cant think of what else it could be. If I did in fact contaminate with zinc, is there anything I can do to salvage my stock, or do I need to get into casting fishing sinkers now. Think I need to invest in a digital thermometer as well, the Lyman I have doesn’t seem to be very accurate.

[Leftoverdj]

More likely, one or both moulds are contaminated. Getting a little lube in the cavities is common when you use Lee moulds and alloy that messed up is rare.

[cgrivois]

cleaned pot out and dropped in a couple of different ingots from different part of the stash, sprayed the crap out of both moulds with brake parts cleaner, same out come. I must also confess that this is only my second attempt at casting. My first attempt, acouple of days ago was with a new double cavity lee mould, and some "ww ingots" I bought off of the bay. Burned through all 50 lbs in no time. Thought to myself, this casting thing is pretty easy. Beginners luck I gues. My suspect bullets dont have the "galvanized" look Ive been reading about with zinc contamination. Just not filling out completely. Im stumped.

[cgrivois]

I also used accetone on a q-tip to swab out the mold cavities. One thing that I have noticed with my new lee 6 cavity mould is that when it heats up, one of the allighnment pins realy starts to move around. It actualy fell out this afternoon. Any suggestions how to prevent this from continuing?

[garandsrus]

cgrivois,

Take a toothbrush and liquid dish soap to the mold and give it a good scrubbing.

How many cycles did you try casting before you gave up? It may take 10 or 15 to get the mold hot. When heating up the mold, cast pretty much as quickly as you can. Don't let the mold cool between cycles.

John

[cgrivois]

Ill try scrubbing them tommorow, ran about half of a 20 lbd pot out before I gave up. 175 gr bullets.

[Marc2]

Did you try smoking the mold? Ive had Lee molds that would not cooperate until they we're smoked.

Marc

[rvpilot76]

Did you try smoking the mold? Ive had Lee molds that would not cooperate until they we're smoked.

Marc

+1 All of my Lee 6-bangers have to be smoked or they produce wrinkled boolits.

Kevin

[MT Gianni]

Did you use a preserative when youstored the mold? Oil. grease etc. If so it may not be fully removed as others have stated. If the pin came out on a new Lee mold I would call them and ask for their instructions on how to send it back. If the pins are off you will not have concentric bullets. I cast with a 6 cavity but letting it sit in the melt for a couple of minutes until it is warm then filling 1 cavity and dumping it adding one cavity every other pour. I have broken the sprue plate handle on a 6 cav that wasn't fully warmed up. I discard every bullet until the whole mold is warm. I have some 6 cavity's but far prefer the LY & RCBS molds. Good luck and let us know what happens next. Gianni.

[JeffinNZ]

Don't panic just yet. Agree with the above but I have had days when things just would not run for me then the next day all is well. Don't panic.

[3sixbits]

Man the first time that same thing happened to me was about the worst casting day of my life. The only thing different today is that I know what the problem is and more importantly the instance fix. Add Sn (tin), lower the temp and watch what a difference a little Sn can make in your life. Don't feel bad, the first time it happened to me I thought it was contaminated with zinc also, and that was back in the 60's when people still thought there was tin in WW's. Remember it's easy to get zinc out of your alloy if it is contaminated.

[buck1]

I would try casting fast and hot untill my boolits were evenly frosted. If they still wont fillout, hold the alloy at about 650F for awile.do not mix or flux. skim the pot and let it build up again, then skim again. Repete this several times. This can clean it up some times. Good luck..........Buck

[Pepe Ray]

cgrivois:
Your initial post tells me that there is some confusion/misunderstanding about "frosted" boolets.
Frosted boolets have been discribed as looking like galvinized metal or Zink plated. This is true. They do look like it, but that is all. This is NOT an indicator of Zink contamination. This is a clue that your running hotter than needed. Many casters like that look or claim they do cause they have to run hot for some other reason. Running hot should give you well filled out bullets.
I deferr to the other guys re; cause of your problem but don't confuse the frosting as a contamination indicator.
Pepe Ray

[Lloyd Smale]

Lee molds need to be run hot. Like was said cast fast till the bullets are starting to frost and then back off your pace till there right on the verge of frosting. Stick your mold right in your hot lead to warm it up. Ive done it for years and never hurt a mold doing it. It will save you alot of rejects during warm up.

[cgrivois]

What I was saying is that my bullets were coming out nice and shinny just wrinkled, not frosty or galvinized looking. Thanks for all of the responses. Going to finish my cofee, and head out to the shed for round three with your suggestions.

[44man]

Everything is just running too cold! Watch that Lyman, the thermostat can fluctuate way too much. Darn lead can get cold before it turns on again.

[Newtire]

What I was saying is that my bullets were coming out nice and shinny just wrinkled, not frosty or galvinized looking. Thanks for all of the responses. Going to finish my cofee, and head out to the shed for round three with your suggestions.

I'm seeing all the reasons I have experienced myself. My 6-bangers all took awhile to get to where they were clean enough to throw some good boolits. I used the boiling pot of water with detergent and then a toothbrush scrub with more soapy water and rinse and then brake-clean (Don't use carb-cleaner as that leaves a residue) and finally a good smoke with matches or a butane lighter.

If there's the least bit of oil, the boolits were wrinkled. I also try to make sure that I pour straight down and hold the mold level.

I had one that needed to have the vent lines cleaned out & then it started casting.

[Bass Ackward]

Yep. Too cold.

If you run a tin mix and it liquefies at say 500 degrees, then you can get away with running a steel mold at about 700 degrees and be pretty sure of fill out with no voids. With brass, you might need 750 degrees to make that same claim. With aluminum, it may take 750 or over 900 degrees. Most pure lead guys run 900+.

If you add tin which lowers the melting point which is why you get "better" fill out. You get more time before solidification if both mixes are the same temp. Some guys get wide spreads in their bullets and some don't. This is also why guys say frosted bullets are better. They are using heat to increase the liquid state time and give air more time to escape.

All of this depends on how many cavities you have and what volume of lead you are pouring, how fast you are casting, ambient temperature, bullet design etc. So watch your mix and use this as a guide for starters. Then record your casting details for each specific mold so you don't have to reinvent the wheel each time you start out.

But don't get hung up on temp, it takes what ever it takes.

[454PB]

Regarding tin content in wheelweights, I found this interesting:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=898&forum_id=9

[44man]

I never have a problem with straight WW metal and adding a small amount of tin never changed anything. I wonder what our local weights contain. I won't be wasting any more tin after reading that post even though I don't know how much is in my WW's.

[Sundogg1911]

not filling out the mould, and bullets that look like they're melting isn't really a symptom of zinc. I agree that things just arn't up to temp. or the molds are not free of oil. Degrease 'em with a good degreaser, or dishsoap. scrub them good with a toothbrush and dry them with compressed air, heat, or a hair dryer. preheat the moulds either by dipping a corner in the alloy or setting them on the pot, hotplate etc. If they look like they are frosted, or a beadblasted appearence, they're just too hot. you may want to add some tin. (50-50 bar solder works) but rember that more than 2% tin is a waste and gets very expensive. If you do have contaminated alloy the only thing that you can do economically is put it back into ingots and add a few ingots at a time to known good alloy. other than that...pitch it. But I dont think the problem is the alloy.

[leftiye]

He added 1 1/2 lbs. solder. Still, the outcome seems high.

[cgrivois]

You were absolutely right in regards to heat and mould contamination. I thoroughly scrubbed the mold with warm soapy water, then got a real good smoke on it with a candle lighter. Immediately started casting better bullets, and only got better as the mould got hotter. Thanks for the help guys, I thought for sure I screwed up my ww stock.

[leftiye]

There are other contaminants besides zinc that can get into lead alloys. May sound dumb, but I can't tell you exactly what they are. Most don't make very much difference and the alloy will still cast good boolits.

Also, there are many oxides that can form and they affect the melt to varying degrees.

Zinc makes maybe the most spectacular problems for casting, but it should be relatively hard to get to melt into your smelt unless it is already in some of the lead being smelted. Conversely, zinc can be kept out of your alloys pretty much by staying below 700 degrees when smelting, 650 is better.

True zinc pollution is actually pretty rare, and is mostly avoidable.

[corvette8n]

I backed off the temp on my Lee pot while casting 150gr fngc from a Lee two holer, started getting wrinkled bullets, put the temp back up and cast a little faster, wrinkles went away.

[44man]

Five pound ingots are too big too. They are hard to pre heat and you have to almost empty the pot before adding one. Then you have to wait for all the lead to come up to temp. Make them one pound and you will be happier.

[Nickle]

You were absolutely right in regards to heat and mould contamination. I thoroughly scrubbed the mold with warm soapy water, then got a real good smoke on it with a candle lighter. Immediately started casting better bullets, and only got better as the mould got hotter. Thanks for the help guys, I thought for sure I screwed up my ww stock.

Glad to see it fixed for you.

I love that avatar. I take it that that picture is you? If so, thanks from a fellow service member.

[Shuz]

44 man--I've seen the tin content of recently mf'd wheel weights posted on a wheel weight mfr's site, and as I recall, it was only around 1/4 of 1 per cent.

[cgrivois]

Yes the avitar is a pic of me on the front of one of our gun trucks in Baghdad. While in country, I bought all of the tools to start casting since I allready reloaded. While home on R&R I broke open the boxes and started the learning process. Must have gotten lucky on the first day with my two hole mould becasue it didnt matter what I did, it just cranked out boolits. Then went to the the 6 hole and thats where the problems started. With the help of you all, on my last day of leave I was able to get my 6 hole working right. Im now on my way back to the sandbox, but only for a couple more months. This site absolutly rocks and is a great source for info on my new hobby.

[3sixbits]

Watch your six o'clock Man, comeback to home safe and sound. You got a lot of old vets pulling for you and all of you!

[Nickle]

Yes the avitar is a pic of me on the front of one of our gun trucks in Baghdad.

PM sent. Watch your '6' when you get back, and let me know if you need anything, fellow soldier!

[cgrivois]

thanks all, just keep the site going, gives me a source to learn from.