311041 HP for coyote hunting

[Wolfer]

I am talking with Erik about HP one cavity on my 311041, I want two pins.

One small no more than 1/4" deep
The other quite a bit bigger and deeper but not going below the first driving band.
I shoot a pretty soft alloy of 2 pb/ 1 WW and get good expansion in my recovery box ( Bob Hagels design of fine silt and rotten sawdust )
I'm an avid coyote caller and usually use a 223 with jacketed bullets and its pretty good about anchoring them on the spot. I've found the low velocity stuff to not put them down as good unless perfect hits are made.
I personally find coyotes to be one of the hardest critters to consistently make perfect shots on.
I want this deep HP to flatten or schrapnel the nose soon after impact in the hopes of putting them down faster.

You guys have any thoughts,questions,concerns,advise?
Now that's a silly question.

[badbob454]

well the 311041 won fit in a 223 so what is it going in ? if its going to shoot at 15-1600 fps i think this will do real well in most any case from 7,62x39- 308 30-30, 30-06 , alot of people use unique powder for this load search it hopefully you can find it ,,, i think both depths should work ..

[MT Chambers]

Well there is another post on here about 311365 and i commented on it being the worst design for game, and I believe that 311041is prolly the best design for a .30 cal. game bullet, and hollow pointing it will only make it better...IMHO

[Ben]

Wolfer

I realize that deer and coyotes are two different animals, but you find this interesting :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=44927

[Wolfer]

Ben
Yes, that's the performance I'm looking for on coyotes, one main exit with several large chunks flying around.
I'm shooting this boolit/alloy @ 1700 fps out of a 30-30 and 30-06 with 2400. This seem to be as fast as I can push this in my 10" twist barrels

[Larry Gibson]

Having shot numerous coyotes with the 311041HP I suggest the deep pin, cast them of WWs + 2% tin and push them to 2000+ fps from a 10" twist 30-30, .308W or '06. If you’ve a 12" twist 30-30 (M94 Winchesters/old ones) or .308W with 22 - 24" barrels then all the better as excellent accuracy can be had upwards of 2200+ fps, especially with slower powders like LeveRevolution.

I certainly have to agree that "personally find coyotes to be one of the hardest critters to consistently make perfect shots on." A coyote is a very, very tenacious animal and a marginal hit with a cast bullet at 1500 – 1600 fps does not anchor them well and they can go a long, long ways before dying.

Larry Gibson

[JDL]

I agree with them being tough! I shot one using a .30-30 loaded with a 311466 flatnosed, at 2050 fps. Hit him on the shoulder and he flopped around like a fish out of water for about 10 seconds, got up and took off through underbrush. Never could get on him for a second shot.

[runfiverun]

if you change that alloy to 1-1 or straight ww's and waterdrop it you can push it up to 1900 or so.
the extra antimony in the alloy will help the nose break apart with the hollow point.
you have enough body there to penetrate even with all the nose gone.

[Wolfer]

I agree with them being tough! I shot one using a .30-30 loaded with a 311466 flatnosed, at 2050 fps. Hit him on the shoulder and he flopped around like a fish out of water for about 10 seconds, got up and took off through underbrush. Never could get on him for a second shot.

Yep, I've seen this several times. Last year while out in the yard I saw two dogs cross the power line a couple hundred yards below the house. I grabbed my caller and my 8mm Mauser stoked with lee 175 boolits cast of WW @ 1500 fps, I forget the powder. I get down in the brush and get set up, give a couple squeaks and right now they were on me. At about 25 yds I put the bead on the front ones shoulder and lit the fire. There was a good solid thump and the dog hit the ground kicking and spinning. I could have shot every shell I had into the storm but was trying to get on the other dog. About the time the other dog got in the brush the shot one got its feet under it and scooted into brush. Two weeks later I could smell it when in the area but never did find it.

I have had this happen so many times that anymore if one don't just smack the ground I keep shooting until it does.

[Wolfer]

I agree with everybody about the alloy. So here's my situation, I have more pb than WW. I've been having a hard time getting WW lately. So far I've never paid for lead in my life but that may have to change. I shoot primarily handguns and this is the alloy I use. I only have one lead pot and I just keep the same stuff in it. I reclaim most of my lead from my sand box so a hundred lbs of lead will last me for years. However after it been shot several times it's all getting mixed up pretty good. Anyway that's why I shoot an alloy that I consider slightly less than ideal.

[runfiverun]

i consider hunting lead expendable, 20 lbs of 170 gr boolits is a lot of them.
800 or so off the top of my head.
enough to work up a load,and hunt for a year or two.

[KCSO]

Try 26-28 grains of WW 748 powder behind the hollow point and it will do the trick for you on coyotes.

[Wolfer]

Run five run
Your absolutely right. I doubt if I have more than 50 lb of WW but when I get the mold back I'll throw a pot full and try to get my velocity up.

KCSO
I've never shot 748 but I've been working with Exterminater in the 06 which is real close in burn rate. Initial 3 and 5 shot tests showed 28 grs to be 50 fps faster and slightly more accurate than 2400 but when I went to 10 shot groups the 2400 edged it out.

Haven't picked up any Dacron yet but I believe filler would help. I've also played with h4895 some but without filler my SD is too high for my liking

[Wolfer]

Shot my first coyote with the big HP this morning. A big male of a pair I called in. They came in kinda cautious and hung up at 70 yds.
We been building a house this summer and it has occupied all my free time so I didn't get any cast from straight WW. Put a few together with my standard soft alloy and 20 gr of 2400 for my 30-06 for 1700 fps.
Shot him thru both shoulders, 30 cal entrance and exit was about an inch across. It appears the boolit held together even though it hit shoulder bone.
This dog went down without a twitch but a solid in the same place would probaly have done the same.
I certainly wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer behind the shoulder with this load ( or anywhere else I wasn't planning on eating )
Soon as I get a chance I'll cast some of straight WW and see if I can get the velocity up

[runfiverun]

excellent.
don't be afraid to try waterdropping the soft alloy,you get the hardness for the bbl without sacraficing to expansion.
one of my favorite alloys is copper coated 22 range scrap with some lead and tin added to it and water dropped.
gives me a bhn in the range of straight ww's with all kinds of muuush on a flat nose i can't imagine what a deep hollowpoint would do with it,but a small one would initiate pretty good expansion.

[Shakey Jakey]

I like a 243 with a 87 gr Vmax at about 3300 fps. The way they kill fawns in my area I dont even pretend to play fair.