Sizing 9mm bullets

[BigCheese]

I'm just starting to cast 9mm lead bullets for a 9mm. Springfield XDM 3.8. Jacketed bullets are .355 diameter. Can lead be a larger size? I have .357 and .358 sizing dies, but am concerned about high pressure if the bullets are oversize. The mold is Lyman 356637, RN 147 grain. Advice would be much appreciated.

[Piedmont]

As long as they fully chamber bigger bullets are just fine. Even my tight Barsto 9mm (.355) will shoot .358" but is a little more accurate with .357".

It would be best if you slug your barrel, but the more important part is the throat (just in front of the case). The idea is you don't want your bullet to tip on ignition. Larger bullets minimize the tipping and therefor maximize accuracy potential.

You'll probably get better accuracy around 1,000 fps than running them full out. Most 9mms are twisted too tight for optimum accuracy with cast (1-10 is standard) but there are a few with more gradual rifling.

[CPL Lou]

When I first started casting for my 9mm, a SIG P225, I tried sizing to .356" and I had a ton of leading.
So, I slugged my barrel to see if it was oversize. Nope, spot on at .355".
Next I tried .357", still had leading.
When I went to .358" all was well !
It wasn't until I had the correct bullet diameter that I started working up a good load.
I haven't had a problem with excess pressure due to an oversize bullet doing my load workup this way.

Also, you might want to read this : http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
And this : http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=121737

Hope this helps !

[MikeS]

When it comes to pressure, it's easy to make a round that's got excessive pressure, but that's usually due to the wrong powder charge, or the boolits being seated too deeply. As far as the boolits being too fat, remember, even the hardest lead boolits (cast from linotype generally) BHN 22 or so are still less than 1/3rd the hardness of a jacketed round! (around BHN 100)

While some people feel you need to use a harder boolit in a 9mm due to it being a higher pressure cartridge, 'harder' doesn't mean the hardest boolit you can cast! Boolits cast from Lyman #2 (BHN 15) are plenty hard for most loads.

[williamwaco]

I'm just starting to cast 9mm lead bullets for a 9mm. Springfield XDM 3.8. Jacketed bullets are .355 diameter. Can lead be a larger size? I have .357 and .358 sizing dies, but am concerned about high pressure if the bullets are oversize. The mold is Lyman 356637, RN 147 grain. Advice would be much appreciated.

You can make them too small but you can't make them too big.
.355 or .356 is too small. .357 is probably optimal ( without slugging your bore )

You can fire them unsized with no fear. If you can chamber them, they will shoot fine.

BUT.

If you load them as-cast, you will find a significant number of them will not chamber and will prevent the slide from closing into battery and MAY even jam tight enough to require field stripping to remove the barrel so you can tap it out with a rod. NEVER force a round into battery. If it fits that tight, it will not expand to allow the bullet to exit the case easily and WILL raise pressure.

I tried the as-cast route and my conclusion is that sizing them is considerably less trouble than not sizing them.

All my 9s like .357. one of them leads slightly with .356. I have never tried .358 because .357 works perfectly.

.

[Alphalpha]

For you guys that use .357 cast bullets and claim no leading in a .355 barrel is this a 92-6-2 alloy or are you using soft lead ?. Just curious, because with my coated bullets sized .356 I never had any issues with leading.

[Buzz64]

+1 with the .356 through a .355 (slugged) barrel with no leading. COWW and carnauba red. 800 + rounds through a S&W Shield and probably five times as much through a CZ 75BD.
Green dot powder at 4.0 grains in a 127gr RN.

[fcvan]

I had a buddy who was pan lubing his 9mm boolits, push through sizing to .358, and still got horrible leading. I shot some his rounds and within one box there was leading. It turns out his dies were set wrong and he was resizing his boolit in the seating and crimping stage. Once he reset his dies to expand the case mouth without over belling his case, seating was easier and did not resize his boolit. He reset his crimp die to just remove the slightly belled mouth and his leading went away.

[MtGun44]

Good advice above. Too big is only a problem if it will not chamber, not a pressure
issue unless you let the feeding cycle push the boolit way into the case, reducing the
combustion chamber volume a lot. Expect to need .357 or .358 in 9mm.

This may help.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

I encourage all newbies to spend some weeks reading the stickies.

Bill

[Shiloh]

My personal experience in the 9mm is that .358 works best. Commercial cast at .356 pattern, .357 is good, .358 is very good.

Shiloh

[Pbaker]

Reviving an old post here… but how are you guys getting around the bullets swage during seating? At .357/.358, my bullets are being swagged down to sub .354. Curious if there’s a work around for this, possibly an expander or neck sizing. Not sure how much you can get away with in that area before you run into chambering issues.

[Soundguy]

Are you telling the case neck prior to seating?

[Bigslug]

Reviving an old post here… but how are you guys getting around the bullets swage during seating?

I use the sizing die out of a Lee .38 S&W set, which is designed to set that round up for a .360"-.362" (ish) bullet. A small bit of fiddling was required to not open the cases too much, but no big issue. I then finish the job with the Dillon 9mm seat and taper crimp dies.

[243winxb]

03-16-2012, 01:08 AM[smilie=s: Day of original post.

[Pbaker]

Yes, I’m using a Dillon powder drop and flaring just enough to not shave the bullet. The lead is approximately 13BHN, which is good enough for 9mm, but it’s getting swagged down to .352 after seating. I use a Dillon seating and crimping die, with only enough crimp to remove the belling. Bullets are being sized to .357, barrel slugs at .356. I suppose the easiest way to fix this is hit the reset on my alloy and make them harder, but I was hoping there was an easy fix.

I’ll have to look into the 38S&W dies. Wasn’t aware they were close enough.

[Soundguy]

I'd go with the 38sw if it's swaging while closing the bell.

[fredj338]

I shoot a lot of coated lead. Sized them 0.356”-0.358”, all seem fine, even in my stock glock bbls, but i settled on 0.357” for every gun. In my Springfield loaded, tight match bbl, it was finicky with some brands of brass.

[Bashby]

Yes, I’m using a Dillon powder drop and flaring just enough to not shave the bullet. The lead is approximately 13BHN, which is good enough for 9mm, but it’s getting swagged down to .352 after seating. I use a Dillon seating and crimping die, with only enough crimp to remove the belling. Bullets are being sized to .357, barrel slugs at .356. I suppose the easiest way to fix this is hit the reset on my alloy and make them harder, but I was hoping there was an easy fix.

I’ll have to look into the 38S&W dies. Wasn’t aware they were close enough.


Uniquetek makes a powder funnel that replaces the one from Dillon and has the profile of an Mdie. I was using an Mdie when using a single stage and got the one from Uniquetek when I upgraded to a 550. I was having the same swaging problem as you before.

[pacomdiver]

Yes, I’m using a Dillon powder drop and flaring just enough to not shave the bullet. The lead is approximately 13BHN, which is good enough for 9mm, but it’s getting swagged down to .352 after seating. I use a Dillon seating and crimping die, with only enough crimp to remove the belling. Bullets are being sized to .357, barrel slugs at .356. I suppose the easiest way to fix this is hit the reset on my alloy and make them harder, but I was hoping there was an easy fix.

i would check your seating die, sounds like there might be buildup of crap in it causing the squeeze down. im using that exact same die set except im using PC'd bullets (brn 10-11. sized to .355, pc'd then sized .357) and my dillon dies dont swage the bullet down, ive pulled many rounds and mic'd them when i first started loading cast and was worried about them being too small.

[Pbaker]

I’ve checked my dies, they are clean. I think it’s an issue of soft-ish lead mixed with hard brass. I have mixed brass, and it’s just used for blasting ammo, so I’m definitely not interested in going through the sorting process. I size all my bullets to .357 as that seems to be the best average for all my 9mm guns. I think getting a modified powder funnel is the best solution at the moment, just need to do more research as there are a couple to choose from. The one I have found so far only expands the neck to .353, which I would think is still going to cause problems. Might have one made as it is a simple part made from bar stock.

[mnewcomb59]

Make sure you don't use super clean brass on the large expander plug or it might stick and rip the rim off! The cases need wax or neck lube or you have to have some method from getting clean metal on metal.

I bought some stainless pin cleaned brass once and ooooh it was so shiny inside and out. I had to wash them in some heavy wash and wax and only rinse like 98% of the soap off so it left some visible residue. Others I used some far diluted alox and a q tip and lubed all the interiors of the case necks. Now I just leave my 9mm cases relatively grimy but still segregate by headstamp.

[remy3424]

Reach out to lathesmith, he is a vender here, just tell him what Dillon press you have and that you are loading, he has made many custom powder funnels (expanders) for Dillon presses...the one he made for me is perfect for loading cast. That should solve the problem. The Lee 38 S&W insert will make the Lee expander die work like a champion.

[243winxb]

With barrel out of gun- Take an oversize bullet & tap it into the throat. Measure the sized area. Choose a sizer thats a tiny bit smaller then the throat. My .3568" chamber throat, needed a .356 H & I Die. Working great. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/free-bore-throat-diameters-in-9mm-luger.3612/full

Your 147 grain bullet will go deep into the case. An oversize diameter may bulge the case, causing chambering problems.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/to-fit-my-chamber-120-gr-158-gr-bullets-9mm-luger.3636/full

(Just in case the OP is still alive.) :grin: HIS LAST ACTIVITY- 01-03-2022 02:47 AM

[Half Dog]

It seems you have plenty of good advice. I use a M-Die, size to 0.358”, and then adjust loads for accuracy. For me, the leading didn’t stop until I got the right size bullet into the barrel.

[Pbaker]

Thanks all for the advice. I am using Dillon dies, so it tends to undersize the brass, causing case bulge in just about any scenario. I’ve loaded other 147gr cast, but these were significantly harder and the case bulge was noticeable. I think I’m going to try the over sized powder funnel for my Dillon. Took some research and help from other posts, but I may have found a possible solution.

https://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1736

[pacomdiver]

I’ve checked my dies, they are clean. I think it’s an issue of soft-ish lead mixed with hard brass. I have mixed brass, and it’s just used for blasting ammo, so I’m definitely not interested in going through the sorting process. I size all my bullets to .357 as that seems to be the best average for all my 9mm guns. I think getting a modified powder funnel is the best solution at the moment, just need to do more research as there are a couple to choose from. The one I have found so far only expands the neck to .353, which I would think is still going to cause problems. Might have one made as it is a simple part made from bar stock.

thats all i use. range pickups, and softer lead that you are using and dont have that problem.

[pacomdiver]

so i guess my dillon expander is a qc fail, it measures .3555
298303
before loading
298304
loaded round after running thru dillon crimp die
298305

[pacomdiver]

round pulled
298311
pulled bullet next to unloaded bullet
298312
pulled bullet measurement, so my bullets are actually getting swaged slightly (.005 from .356 to.3555)
298313

[Pbaker]

Yeah my powder funnel measures .352”, which is why my bullets are being swagged to .353-.354. Definitely not big enough to build pressure and seal most chambers. I have a few Sigs and an AR9 that measure a .356 barrel, so I settled on sizing to .357. I may even bump it up to .358 and get and oversized powder funnel.

[6622729]

As suggested by others, you should slug the barrel then go about .002” over. I’m shooting .357 sized in 3 different 9mm Glocks with KKM stainless barrels. The all slugged .355 and they all shoot great. My alloy is approximated Lyman #2 (90/5/5). I have shot a lot of Lee “as cast” but the consistency created by sizing all of them is worth the few minutes it takes.

[Pbaker]

I have slugged my barrels, and they all measured at .356. Last year I reloaded some Winchester white box brass using a harder alloy sized to .357, they shot great. But the bullets were not being swagged during the reloading process either. Since I have this bucket of mixed brass now, and with my softer alloy, it’s an issue. That’s why I made the comment of getting the oversized powder funnel and sizing to .358 for good measure.

Honestly, the undersized bullets shoot fine in my Sig’s, it just leaves me with dirty brass. But I really notice this issue in my AR9 as it completely fouls the action after 60 rounds or so because of blow by from not sealing properly.

[mnewcomb59]

You might just find that 9mm blowbacks run filthy and there is not much to be done about it except making the bolt heavier. The case has a pronounced taper. It is not a parallell straight wall. As soon as the bolt begins moving backwards the gas seal is lost.

[gwpercle]

I load for 4 different 9mm Luger pistols , one being a Springfield , and size all boolits .357" .
I get best results with a steel CH resizing die that sizes with the tapered case ... carbide sizer only sizes in a cylinder form and you loose some of the seal that the tapered case gives ... ditch the carbide sizer and use a tapered steel sizer !
Flare the case mouth . NOE M-Die case expander plug in the Lee Universal Neck Expander keeps the case from squeezing down the boolit ... get the M-die insert that fits your sized boolit ... this is a huge help !
A boolit with a gas check also helps seating w/o sizing down and you can load them +1,000 fps with no leading . I ordered mine from NOE along with the correct case expanding plug .
I load on a single stage press ...if you a Dillon user with Dillon Dies ... I don't Know !
Gary

[243winxb]

RCBS 9MM dies- Taper size & have M expander. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/rcbs-expander-m-type-9mm-strange-black-coating.3604/full

[lotech]

I've had five size dies from .356" to .360" on hand for many years for use with 9mm and .38 bullets. There are exceptions, but generally, the largest bullet that will chamber without difficulty will not only be the most accurate, it likely won't lead the bore. In 9mm, the best diameter I've found for use in several pistols (Walther, Beretta, and a Sig) has been .358". Again, there are exceptions. You can slug the bore, but seldom is this really necessary if you'll try different bullet diameters. For 9mm, a hardness anywhere between 12-15 BHN is fine for most loads.

[Pbaker]

Iotech, I agree 100%. With my avg barrel size measuring.356, I think I’m going to go with a .358 powder funnel and start sizing my bullets to .358 as well. With softer lead, I don’t think that .002” of squeeze is going to be detrimental.

[Soundguy]

round pulled
298311
pulled bullet next to unloaded bullet
298312
pulled bullet measurement, so my bullets are actually getting swaged slightly (.005 from .356 to.3555)
298313

Try a uni expander.. that one is simply not belling enough...

[pacomdiver]

Try a uni expander.. that one is simply not belling enough...

its not shaving and shoots good thru all the 9s i load for from pistols to carbines, so why mess with success

[Soundguy]

If the bullet is bigger than the case neck..its swaging or shaving when going in.

[Pbaker]

That isn’t necessarily a true statement. I had some hard lead (18BHN) that loaded great in 9mm. There was visible case bulge though as well. But yes, I’m starting to think that more often than not, people are experiencing bullet swagging to some extent. For me, the undersized bullets weren’t noticeable in my handguns. It wasn’t until I shot them in my AR9 that this became an issue to me, they were not building pressure and sealing the chamber. I think because I had successfully loaded a previous batch with harder lead (18BHN), I didn’t even consider that I had issues with bullet size on my new batch (COWW @12BHN).

Just some adventures in reloading I guess!

[trixter]

I've been using Lee 358-105 SWC, and have been liking it a lot, but wonder if the 358-140 SWC will work as well, I also use the Lee TL 356-124 2R (ease of casting) powder coated just barley .357". Just wondering what you like (seems most of you like cast in the .358" size.
Thanks for all replies.