Using herco/universal in 30-30, and 30-06

[newton]

Hello gents, been mulling around here for a while now and figured I'd join. I am new to reloading, been doing it for a couple of years. And now I have decided to venture into casting.

I am going to cast for the 30-30(M94) and an old Stevens 30-06. I have all the equipment, been researching/studying for the last year. Recently purchased two lee molds. 113gr 'soup can' and 170 fngc. I am sure the collection will grow, but this gets me started.

The question I have is in reference to the 170 boolit. I also want input for the 113 grainer, but that's a side note for now. In the research I have done, for the low velocity rounds I am looking for, Unique seems to be the number one powder of choice. And I would go with it, but it seems like its popularity keeps it off the shelves.

But the Lyman book I have shows most of the same load data with Herco being an option. And to boot, it always seems to follow Unique loads +1 grain. So is it a pretty good powder to experiment with? Or is there a powder closer to Unique I should consider?

Uses of the ammo will be paper punching and tin can hunting. Maybe some small game mixed in, but anything larger will get a gas check and some 4198. I was looking at Universal and it seems to be real close to Unique, but not a spec of load data I can find for my calibers. Please let me know what you guys think about what I should be looking for. Many thanks.

[L Ross]

How's the availablity of Red Dot or better yet Promo? Promo can be used as a Red Dot substitute by weight, i.e. grain for grain. I use 6.5 gr in the 30-30 and 13 gr. in the 30-06. I bought Promo at $79.95 for an 8 lb. jug.

Duke

[357maximum]

Welcome to the fray.....I bet you do not even know how much trouble you are in since landing here. :bigsmyl2:

I use alot of Herco....I call it slow Unique. Your thoughts are right on cue....just twatch the +1 grain generalization. Even though that formula has always worked for me also....I am sure there is some as of yet to be tried load that will not follow the generalized rule.


have fun,
Michael

[runfiverun]

i like herco but it's not alway's available in big jugs.
i use it in my 357 loads.
it meters better than unique,and i would use it more if i could get it easier.

[newton]

Red dot was another option, but further down the list. However, guess what, it is popular too. Haha. Promo on the other hand I had not considered. I honestly cannot say I have seen much data on it. I'll have to check it out.

I do realize how much trouble there is around here... Yes, I definitely am not going to just try to match it against unique grain for grain +1. One thing I found interesting is the pressure differences in relation to velocity.

Thanks for the input so far, hope to hear more. I did go ahead and got some herco because I am itching to load my first casts this weekend. Unique is 'hoped' to be in stock at the end of next week so I will more than likely get a pound of it whenever possible. Just looking for some cheap plinking powder and safe loads for me and my boy.

[GP100man]

Welcome to the Madness ,after a spell you`ll fit rite in the picket line :lovebooli kikin lead with the ole dirty-30 can be a load of fun & suprising at the same time !!!

You`ll be giving the copper condomed projectiles the :bootgive:

[newton]

When using Herco, do you notice a difference between a crimp and one without? I have a factory crimp for my 30-30. Eventually I will get one for my '06. But I am wondering if it helps with the Herco powder. From what I understand Herco seems to like higher pressures to burn well.

Any thoughts on this?

[35remington]

Crimp won't make a bit of difference in how Herco works. You are not that load critical.

"Herco needing higher pressures" has to be considered in light of its intended use, which is for shotshells at 8-10,000 psi. At that range it is not spotlessly clean burning but it's clean enough.

You're running it at higher pressure than that in most loads, most likely, so "cleanliness" won't be a significant issue.

For the 30-06:
With the Soup can, using Promo I get around 1550 fps using nine grains, and while higher charges are usable with decent accuracy, accuracy is better for me at nine grains in my 1-10 twist '06's. Increase that a grain or so with Herco to get similar speed.

Besides, at 1550 fps with nine grains Promo I duplicate a medium speed 32-20, a useful place to be. If bullets are hard, meat damage is fairly minor, but increasing speed increases meat damage. And expense for powder and noise with a bit of an accuracy loss. Since it's essentially a 100-125 yard load, this matches velocity to the rather blunt bullet shape. Killing power is very good.

It seems to make sense to use modest pistol/shotgun type powders with this modest pistol type bullet.

[newton]

Interesting. I see what your saying about the pressure thing. I am not so worried about cleanliness as I am consistency. I have a gun cleaning kit and know how to use it. haha. I like to shoot ML so I am not afraid of a dirty gun.

I'll play around with your suggestion. My load data does not show Promo, but does show Red Dot with a similar weight boolit. But I do realize Promo is on par with Red Dot in grain weight. Whats interesting is that the starting load is 11 grains of Red Dot. Of course it also comes with a starting velocity of near 1700. And at that velocity I am thinking a GC would be wise, but staying under the 1600 mark eliminates the need for one which makes sense for intended purpose.

Starting load for that boolit in my manual for Herco is 14.5 with a velocity nearing 1900. So I guess a little playing around is in order. Of course this is a completely different style boolit than the lee so things will definitely be different. I am going to have to convince my wife I need a chrony. haha.

I agree with you on the powder thing. To me it makes no sense to use double the amount of powder, which usually costs more per pound to begin with.

I am thinking my boys are going to love shooting dad's "big" gun loaded up with some of theses soup can's at the low velocities. From what I have heard it is about like shooting a .22 with a lot more punch at the receiving end. And they like shooting the .22

[williamwaco]

Herco is one of my favorite handgun powders. It is also great in rifles for reduced loads.

Your 30-30 will love 8 to 10 grains.

Your shoulder will also love it.

Your ears will also love it.

And your cases will last forever.

I use a tiny crimp. The smallest amount of crimp that I can detect visually. Applied with the seating die.

.
.



.

[popper]

Haven't tried Herco but I use a lot of Unique and Lever for 170 LFP. I haven't found the accuracy of GC CB sans GC to be very good so I changed to a PB mould. 7.5 of Unique seem to be my accuracy load (marlin MG). So far 45/45/10 has been a good lube, but I want to try plain LLA for lite loads to decrease smoke.

[runfiverun]

popper it's the alox that smokes.
sometimes it's just the powder.
using alox or unique in high humidity situations will produce smoke.
using them both makes smoke on a regular day.

[35remington]

For best accuracy with the Soup Can at 1550 fps, leave the gas check on.

The light charges of powder, below the start levels in most manuals, produce modest pressure and it is at these modest pressures where fast powders do their best. As in the teens, pressure wise in psi. It is fair to state that the starting loads often do not go quite low enough in many instances with fast powders when speaking of best accuracy.

Don't worry about consistency at these pressure levels as it's within within or above Herco's normal operating pressures.

With Universal, check position sensitivity in rifle size cases with powder forward and powder backward, compare to Promo and Herco, and make your selection based on the powder that shows the least position sensitivity, especially if accuracy is a wash.

I already know which ones will come out ahead, but best if you find out for yourself.