First time caster...maybe last time caster.

[Shoot2Load]

Hello guys,
First let me say I'm computer stupid and it seems double dumb when it comes to casting bullets. I have been fighting a new mould I got for.40&S&W its a Lee 175-TL. I don't have much to offer except questions at this point, after lurking on this site for a month or so I had to register but feel outgunned, pardon the pun. I started with WW and added 2 oz. of 95/5 solder. My boolits weigh in at 185-187grns. I bought AA #2 per the data supplied by Lee. I shot 30 rds. at 4.6grns of powder and started seeing what I think is leading. I read some more posts and slugged the barrel on my sig and as best I can tell tell it is somewhere between .3995 and .4005. I pulled some bullets from the batch I loaded and they were .399 which I assume got swaged by the cases when they were seated as my sizer isn't quite .401 it is .4005. I tried loading as cast which are.403 but after loaded and pulled seem to be .401-.402 . I thought about shooting a batch of those but to tell you the truth I have read so much about the .40 and the high pressure they develop I am almost at the point of sticking to .38s and .45s as they seem to be a little more forgiving. What is the max oversize a boolit can be safely fired. As for the leading I think I'm getting it was a thin silver line on the leading edge of the rifling, but I thought it would be prudent to wait until I got some guidance.

[Wolfer]

I think it's common for there to be a little lead in the barrel, leading problems are when it builds up enough that accuracy falls off. What I see is that after 20/50 rds there may be a little lead but the rifling is still sharp, after 200 rds it looks about the same.

Lead goes down a barrel a lot easer than jacketed. If your powder charge is max or below I would have no qualms about shooting any boolit that would chamber.

[wv109323]

Two thousandths over bore diameter should not hurt.
You did not mention lube but that is importatnt.
It sounds like you are experiencing leading from your description.
A lead bullet .001 or .002 bore diameter with proper lube should not lead. I am not familiar with the load but try to keep the bullet 1000 fps or less and try.

[Bullwolf]

I tried loading as cast which are.403 but after loaded and pulled seem to be .401-.402 . I thought about shooting a batch of those but to tell you the truth I have read so much about the .40 and the high pressure they develop I am almost at the point of sticking to .38s and .45s as they seem to be a little more forgiving.

You don't need to worry about oversize cast lead boolits raising pressures. Just about any oversize cast lead 40 caliber boolit that you can still fit in the chamber in your 40 s&w will be fine pressure wise.

Hard J-word boolits do not swage down as easily as lead boolits do, and they will raise pressures. With cast lead boolits, oversize boolits are just fine.

My recipe for 40 s&w success is a .401 diameter Lee 175-180 grain TL TC boolit and a mild dose of a medium to slow burning powder like Accurate Arms #5, or Alliant's Unique, or my favorite for this cartridge Alliant's Blue dot.

This doesn't mean you cant make Bullseye, Red Dot, Winchester 231, or AA#2 work, however. I am just relating what works easiest for me with cast lead boolits and 40 s&w.

The only overpressure you really need to be worried about is an unsafe powder charge, or seating a boolit too deep in the case. Just watch your overall length, and if you are in doubt as to where to start, get yourself a nice loading book, (I would recommend Lyman) you can also look up quite a few recipes online from the powder manufacturers websites.

Don't discount the free, and convenient Accurate Arms loading pamphlets that are there for the asking, often sitting on or behind the counter of your local powder supplier.


- Bullwolf

[462]

Shoot2Load,
Don't give up, man!

I don't do .40 S&W but there are many, here, who do and they will give you the absolute best advise that's available anywhere.

I predict that, when all is said and done, the fix will be so simple you'll be amazed.

[mpmarty]

I use that same boolit in 10mm and never size it. My LEE drops them at .4025 and my Tanfoglio barrel sizes them to suit itself just fine. No pressure signs at all and with AA9 and max loads in new starline cases the fired cases are as clean as new inside after these loads. No leading, no sizing, no problems.

[runfiverun]

the seating the unsized ones and letting the case do the work is perfect.
you are letting them sit for a week or so after casting....right?

[44man]

Water drop and let them set a week, then load.

[Cherokee]

Welcome....do not give up. You have alredy received some good suggestions, try them.

[ku4hx]

Hello guys,
First let me say I'm computer stupid and it seems double dumb when it comes to casting bullets. I have been fighting a new mould I got for.40&S&W its a Lee 175-TL. I don't have much to offer except questions at this point, after lurking on this site for a month or so I had to register but feel outgunned, pardon the pun. I started with WW and added 2 oz. of 95/5 solder. My boolits weigh in at 185-187grns. I bought AA #2 per the data supplied by Lee. I shot 30 rds. at 4.6grns of powder and started seeing what I think is leading. I read some more posts and slugged the barrel on my sig and as best I can tell tell it is somewhere between .3995 and .4005. I pulled some bullets from the batch I loaded and they were .399 which I assume got swaged by the cases when they were seated as my sizer isn't quite .401 it is .4005. I tried loading as cast which are.403 but after loaded and pulled seem to be .401-.402 . I thought about shooting a batch of those but to tell you the truth I have read so much about the .40 and the high pressure they develop I am almost at the point of sticking to .38s and .45s as they seem to be a little more forgiving. What is the max oversize a boolit can be safely fired. As for the leading I think I'm getting it was a thin silver line on the leading edge of the rifling, but I thought it would be prudent to wait until I got some guidance.

Casting is a process and as such, you're going to experience "hold points" along the way. And like so many other things, the rewards of sticking to it when the going gets testy can be many.

My favorite load for 40 S&W is 5.3 Grain Unique over a Lee 175 grain Traditional lube Truncated Cone boolit. I do have the Tumble Lube mold, but prefer the traditional. I size my boolits to .401", lube with thinned LLA and dust all my boolits with Motor Mica. I generally shoot these in my Lone Wolf barrel but they work fine in my Glock barrels too. I clean after ever range session.

You can most certainly build overpressure 40 S&W rounds, but assuming all other parameters are safe, a cast boolit .002" over bore diameter is not going to cause you pressure problems. An otherwise safe load in 40 S&W can become a danger when the boolit is seated too deeply via setback from too many chamberings or deep seating during the loading process.

[Iron Mike Golf]

I expect lead fouling to build up on the trailing edge of the land first. After shooting, run a really tight fitting patch down the bore. The cloth will snag lead and tear out slivers. Real bad, and you get flakes the width of your grooves.

I'd make sure I got all the lead out and then shoot, say, 100 of those as cast. I'd water drop them and wait a week for them to harden good, as suggested above.

While shooting these, keep an eye on group size. You want to note at what point the groups start to open. Then you have a baseline as you work things to tell if you're making prgress or going the other direction.

Just like powder fouling, you can have a slight amount of lead residue that doesn't seem to build up. Each round pushes out what the previous one left behind. If you get to that point, you have succeeded. At that point, you won't need to "clean" the barrel. Just attend to rust prevention when you put it up.

[mdi]

Sounds like you're swaging down your bullet a bit when loading (.399" from .4005", isn't much, but smaller than groove diameter; .4005") Are you using a Lee Factory Crimp die? If the as cast rounds will chamber, I'd shoot them. I've read of shooters using bullets up to .006" larger than groove diameter without pressure problems. I aso read of a feller that made barrels chambered for 22 lr. but had bores of 20 and 17 caliber. Lead will squirt down a barrel much easier than bronze/copper jacketed bullets...

[Shoot2Load]

To all who responded,
Many thanks, I knew I would be in good company with the wealth of knowledge on this forum.I did forget to mention I am tumble lubing with Lee liquid alox. I only let the bullets sit for a couple of days before trying to size and load. As of this writing they are well over a week old. I tried to figure things out on my own before asking for help. I checked the Lyman 2nd edition for 185 lead and the closest I found was 180 lead and I happen to have gobs of HP-38 but I have never been one to deviate from published data, which is why I was reluctant to use the advice from the shop owner to start at 3.8 -5.0 . I opted for AA #2 because it was listed in my data along 5,7,9 but I chose 2 because it showed the lowest velocity. In my research it seems the softer lead bullets do better under 1000 fps. I do have unique and red-dot but the current data I have only covers 180 lead. I dont know for certain if it matters but I wasn't going to experiment if I couldn't find data for what I had exactly. I do feel alot more confident as far as being on the right track with all the great advice. Thanks again guys and I will keep you posted

[ku4hx]

To all who responded,
Many thanks, I knew I would be in good company with the wealth of knowledge on this forum.I did forget to mention I am tumble lubing with Lee liquid alox. I only let the bullets sit for a couple of days before trying to size and load. As of this writing they are well over a week old. I tried to figure things out on my own before asking for help. I checked the Lyman 2nd edition for 185 lead and the closest I found was 180 lead and I happen to have gobs of HP-38 but I have never been one to deviate from published data, which is why I was reluctant to use the advice from the shop owner to start at 3.8 -5.0 . I opted for AA #2 because it was listed in my data along 5,7,9 but I chose 2 because it showed the lowest velocity. In my research it seems the softer lead bullets do better under 1000 fps. I do have unique and red-dot but the current data I have only covers 180 lead. I dont know for certain if it matters but I wasn't going to experiment if I couldn't find data for what I had exactly. I do feel alot more confident as far as being on the right track with all the great advice. Thanks again guys and I will keep you posted

Just hang in there. maybe you need a short break. Sometimes a break from what's bugging you can sort of even things out and recharge you. Your call of course.

I'd allow you have a good grasp of the basics and now all you need to do is build confidence, have a few enjoyable successes and perfect your craft. Just remember, a small batch of perfectly formed boolits is a success. So is a batch of sized and lubed ones ready to be loaded.

Enjoy the small successes and the BIG success of shooting them down range or at your intended game will follow as sure as the sun's gonna come up tomorrow.

[geargnasher]

Having pulled and measured seated boolits and compared them to a bore slug is half the battle, and the part most people miss. You have already identified part of your problem!

Be aware, as others have mentioned, that ternary lead alloys need some time to age harden. Wheel weights take a week or two if you air cool them, sometimes less if water-quenched. If you load them "green" they will be too soft to resist the extra-hard, extra-tough, extra-thick brass of the .40 which is designed for .357 Magnum-level pressures regardless of whether you load it to potential or not.

If your boolits are at or under groove diameter when they are fired, they will lead. There are two ways to prevent this: Have a longer, larger expander spud made for your expander die just for use with cast boolits, or use a harder cast boolit that can resist the case swage. Don't use a Lee FCD for this caliber as it will surely swage the boolit below .400" inside the case, as this is what it's designed to do (it is a positive "GO" gauge to ensure all ammo will chamber, and is meant to be used with copper-jacketed bullets only).

Get yourself a dedicated taper crimp die and use only enough crimp to allow the cartridge to "clink" home in your gun's chamber with the barrel removed. You can bellmouth a case fired from your gun and measure the ID of the "neck" area where the boolit is seated to determine how large you can go with your cast boolits before creating chambering and pressure issues. I've found I have to shoot a minimum .402" boolit most of the time and use and expander spud that is .401" and leaves a sized, expanded case at .400" or so after springback. This .002" interference fit is plenty for boolit retention, in fact about the max you can get with this caliber, yet will allow air-cooled, aged wheel weight boolits at 13 bhn to be seated without swaging them undersized. Still, with a .402" boolit, some of my guns have tapered chambers and won't allow the cartridge to fully chamber freely without taper crimping a bit, and a pulled boolit will have a ring in the top band from the case mouth being swaged into it slightly. They work fine as long as only a little of the top band is swaged and not the whole boolit.

Here's a thread I started on custom expanders, and another member made a drawing of an expander we both had custom-made for softer alloys in our .40s, see post #19. We were both using Lee 401-175-TC boolits, and the spud length is designed for them with typical OAL of 1.100 to 1.120" seating depths.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=93108

Liquid Alox has always been a poor choice for the .40 IME, but some people make it work just fine if the boolit fit, alloy, and powder choice is exactly right.

Gear