Primers???

[trixter]

I'm probably sure there have been a lot of (Ford vs Chevy) Brand W vs brand C primer discussions on here, put please help with my delema.
The last time I went to my supplier he was out of Brand C, so I got Brand W. The went through my progressive reloader nicely and the first bunch , about 100 worked just fine. I went back to the reloading and again all went well, but at the range, I encountered my first 'DUDS'. Bang, Bang Click???. Hand ejected the cartridge and looked it over all is well, there is a dent in the primer. I doesn't seem to be as deep as the fired ones, then Bang, Bang, Bang, Click! OK now I am just upset. The 'DUD' primer looks just like the other one that didn't go off. The fired ones were just fine looking. One opinion is that the Brand W "DUDS" are Metal too hard primers. If so I guess I have to go thru all of them and those that fire are good, and those that don't are too hard???. Any of those I will over haul with my Inertia hammer, and try again with Brand C. Also these were tried in another pistol of the same brand and, same problem. I am ready to hear what you have to say.

[edler7]

Did you try shooting the "duds" again ? Sometimes a high primer will be seated by the first strike and will shoot on the 2nd time. I'm assuming you were shooting them through some type of semi-auto from the "Hand ejected the cartridge" statement.

I use brand W by the thousands, and haven't had any trouble in either 1911 or revolver...but I hand seat all primers.

[Rocky Raab]

Pistols have fairly light firing pin "hits." So do revolvers with lightened actions. Different primers may not ignite well. Even the ones that fire may have had momentary hangfires too short to notice - except on the target or chronograph tape.

It may or may not be the primer cups, which really don't vary as much as folklore would have us believe. The priming mixture DOES vary, however from brand to brand. Federal primers use a more sensitive mix than other brands. Sometimes they are the only cure for "dud-itis."

[Larry Gibson]

Would help to know what the "clicker" pistols were? There may be a problem there as I've used Winchester primers for many years without a problem.. BTW; odds are that one in about every 300,000 primers will misfire. Primers are only man made and no matter how well we make a product like that there will be the occasional problem.

Larry Gibson

[ShooterAZ]

Two of my S&W revolvers, a 625 & 686 with action jobs will only function 100% with Federal primers. These have softer cups for sure. Sometimes a dirty gun will induce this or make it worse as well.

[Bwana]

I'm probably sure there have been a lot of (Ford vs Chevy) Brand W vs brand C primer discussions on here, put please help with my delema.
The last time I went to my supplier he was out of Brand C, so I got Brand W. The went through my progressive reloader nicely and the first bunch , about 100 worked just fine. I went back to the reloading and again all went well, but at the range, I encountered my first 'DUDS'. Bang, Bang Click???. Hand ejected the cartridge and looked it over all is well, there is a dent in the primer. I doesn't seem to be as deep as the fired ones, then Bang, Bang, Bang, Click! OK now I am just upset. The 'DUD' primer looks just like the other one that didn't go off. The fired ones were just fine looking. One opinion is that the Brand W "DUDS" are Metal too hard primers. If so I guess I have to go thru all of them and those that fire are good, and those that don't are too hard???. Any of those I will over haul with my Inertia hammer, and try again with Brand C. Also these were tried in another pistol of the same brand and, same problem. I am ready to hear what you have to say.

While some of us on here are considered psycho, I don't think any of us are psychic. So it would help to have the details about the primers (C and W don't cut it.) The firearm, round, press, etc. Until then I am not going to try to help.

[DeanWinchester]

I use Winchester mostly and that's because I find them easiest. CCI close second. I have had more dud's with federal than anything. Come to think of it, the ONLY duds were with Federal. I had over a dozen duds from Federal Match large rifle. Hmph, match my eye!


Bwana is right, need more info for a real opinion on your woes.

[ku4hx]

In over forty years of loading I've had two primers fail, both for want of an anvil. Both were in CCI. My "misfires" have been few but they have all been attributable to poor seating or a light strike. Proper attention to detail will fix the poor seating and for the light strikes I replaced the firing pin spring in my 1968 vintage BHP.

[trixter]

The gun in question is a Springfield Armory XDm. The primers in question are Brand W (Winchester) and Brand C (CCI). Loaded on a Lee Load Master and seated to 1 or 2 thousandth clearance. 228 gr Lead RN over 4.7 grains of Bullseye. All of the bullets drop in and out without help.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup there the only primer ill use in a da gun anymore and for the most part stick to them for semi auto guns that i use to protect my family. they go bang every time.
Two of my S&W revolvers, a 625 & 686 with action jobs will only function 100% with Federal primers. These have softer cups for sure. Sometimes a dirty gun will induce this or make it worse as well.

[44man]

In 58 years I have never had a reload fail to fire. I used all brands.
It is the gun itself and it should fire ANY primer. Fix the gun!

[Bwana]

Ok. Basicly there are only two reasons I can surmise; the gun needs to be cleaned or the primers were not seated properly. The primers need to be seated to the bottom of the pocket, not just one or two thousands below flush.

Pretty much as ku4hx stated.

[winelover]

In 58 years I have never had a reload fail to fire. I used all brands.
It is the gun itself and it should fire ANY primer. Fix the gun!


Same here. My Colt Python was having issues with setting off CCI primers which I used exclusively. Of course, I explored high seating, I always clean the pockets on all brass I reload. Switched brands, still having issues. On my trips to the range, I passed by Magnaport and Larry Kelly, himself, happened to be behind the counter. Larry examined it and said it was because I put an after market spring kit in it. Bull, I've owned the gun since new and never did anything but clean it. Went home and tried to purchase a V-shaped hammer spring directly from Colt but they wouldn't sell me one. Finally found a Gunsmith in Redford, Michigan (Frank Paris) who did custom work on revolvers and pistols. He dug around in his stash and provide me with a factory spring. Went home and installed it and never again had a problem. Needless to say, I've never had much use for Magnaport after that.

Winelover

[44man]

Some springs last a lifetime and some take a set and weaken, even in two guns off the line, side by side.
Never trust a spring.

[Cherokee]

My XDM 5.25 has never skipped a beat in 5,000 rounds so far, using Wolf and CCI primers. My primers are hand seated to the bottom of the primer pocket. My S&W 686 will fail to fire some time due to light strike, that's a gun problem I haven't fixed yet. I've used CCI for 50 or so years without any problems other than the 686.

[mdi]

I would have to go with Rocky's post. I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't think Federal uses a "proprietary" alloy for their primer cups. I believe some military primers are thicker to use in machine guns, and some primers use a different priming compound, some being more sensitive than others.

In my reloading experience I've only experienced failures to fire from primers not completely seated. A second strike usually fired the round...

[Sonnypie]

The gun in question is a Springfield Armory XDm. The primers in question are Brand W (Winchester) and Brand C (CCI). Loaded on a Lee Load Master and seated to 1 or 2 thousandth clearance. 228 gr Lead RN over 4.7 grains of Bullseye. All of the bullets drop in and out without help.

Why is that?
I set my primers to the bottom of the primer pocket.
And my Forester press sets them .005" below the head. But I haven't tried following up with something to see if they are seated at the bottom.

Maybe they are tending to set deeper with the firing pin strike, instead of getting a reliable detonation?
Everything I have ever seen called for the primers to be seated solidly in the pocket so the anvil is supported.

WARNING! Do NOT try to seat primers deeper on LOADED ammunition!

PS: I've used both brands and not had appreciable troubles with either.

[birdadly]

Did you try shooting the "duds" again ? Sometimes a high primer will be seated by the first strike and will shoot on the 2nd time.

No offense, as I'm completely in the dark on this one... is this actually safe to do? I tend to find lots of duds at the range that people throw in the brass buckets. There's a metal box that they're suppose to put them in. I believe I've had this happen once myself, and I threw it into the metal box. Thanks! -Brad

Dangit, I'm going to hijack this for one more little question that I just simply don't know... can I use a kinetic bullet puller on live ammo? if so, even a dud that has a firing pin mark in the primer? Thanks, sorry trixter!! -Brad

PS: got my answers via post and PM... thanks gang!

[375RUGER]

I've had one primer fail to detonate. It was 1 of the first 5 rifle, 7mm Mag, that I ever loaded. I had only loaded pistol up to that point. That is why i still have that cartride and a target in my load book with only 4 holes, pardon 1 ragged hole. It was a brand R primer and I don't know why it didn't go off, very deep firing pin dent in it. I have used a bunch of brand R since then.
Any other failures to fire I've come across was the gun, or some the headspace was wrong, but not primer.
Check your gun over really well. Check your loader to for possible oil comtamination, but with the firing pin strike you describe, not likely.
I've been working on a friends SKS lately that has a firing pin problem.

[scattershot]

If your pistol hasn't been tinkered with, I'd suspect incomplete primer seating. Try seating 100 rounds with a hand tool or another press, then try them. My guess is the problem will go away.

[alfloyd]

"can I use a kinetic bullet puller on live ammo?"

Yes, that is what the kinetic pullers are made for, But NOT on Rim-Fire ammo.

Lafaun

[44man]

I've had one primer fail to detonate. It was 1 of the first 5 rifle, 7mm Mag, that I ever loaded. I had only loaded pistol up to that point. That is why i still have that cartride and a target in my load book with only 4 holes, pardon 1 ragged hole. It was a brand R primer and I don't know why it didn't go off, very deep firing pin dent in it. I have used a bunch of brand R since then.
Any other failures to fire I've come across was the gun, or some the headspace was wrong, but not primer.
Check your gun over really well. Check your loader to for possible oil comtamination, but with the firing pin strike you describe, not likely.
I've been working on a friends SKS lately that has a firing pin problem.
What is the problem with the SKS? Is it slam firing? The floating pin needs military grade primers.
I have sprung several pins to prevent the problem and they can now use any primers.