Lead shot in pistol cartridges

[hunter64]

Anyone tried this. I read in an old reloading book about making shotshell pistol cartridges with #9 or #12 pellets and medium amount of powder. They used 8 grn of Unique then used a piece of thin cardboard as a wad and put it over the powder. Then filled the case up with the shot to slightly below the mouth of the .44 mag case and then used another piece of cardboard to hold it in. Then used white glue to hold the cardboard to the case, just small amount around the inside. Showed pictures of a very "holy" pop can. Was wondering about something bigger like buckshot sized shot .33 or so , might get two or three in there and one step further like a filler of some kind to start the buckshot off correctly. Just throwing out some ideas. No particular need for a shot filled pistol, just one of those hum, I wonder, type deals.

[Cloudpeak]

I loaded a bunch of shot shells for my 44 Ruger years ago. We had a lot of rattle snakes on our ranch and rats in the grain elevator. I used a gas check cup up, the shot and then crimped on a gas check, cup down.

I was at the elevator every day way before light. I'd strap on my 44 with shot loads, walk towards the scale room in the dark, hit the light switch and draw and hip shoot rats. I got a rat every once in awhile but the shot loads were kind of hard on the sacked feed the rats were scurrying over so I had to quit:-D The shot loads worked very well on rattlers.

Cloudpeak

[mag_01]

Two 45 cal. round balls in a 45 Long Colt case with about 5 grs. of bullseye and at 25yrds. one ball point of aim second ball about 8 inches lower---- round balls being soft (BP) left a lot of lead in my barrel but was very effective.---- Mag

[Poygan]

I have tried shot loads with both the Speer capsules in .38 and .44 which worked reasonably well at close distances. Have also tried the wad over the powder and sealed at the top with cardboard (like the back of a writing tablet) and also gas checks. Again, O.K. performance at close range. The best one IMO was a thin cardboard wad over the powder followed by #9 shot and then topped off with a round ball crimped in the top. Used a light coating of Lee liquid alox on the ball. The round ball hit to point of aim and was surrounded by the #9 pellets. If I lived in snake country, that would be my choice. Were that the case, I would also investigate the same concept in the .44.

[45nut]

http://www.firearmreflections.com/articles2006/hippocketsnakegun.asp

great article

[Pilgrim]

RCBS makes a die for reforming .308, .30-06, etc. cases to a .45 ACP w/ hardball shape. Then you load 'em similar to the article referenced, except I used GC's both over powder and over shot. No fillers and no lube. The rounds load into a 1911 magazine just like a hardball round, look llike a screwy hardball round, and feed and fire similar to hardball as well. I haven't shot any for a while, but if I remember correctly, my loads also cycled the action just fine. I used #9 shot and at 10' or a bit more, no rattler will escape. In addition, the GC's also punch a noticable hole at that range. I carry the pistol with the shot load magazine inserted when in snake country, with a separate magazine loaded with 200 or 230 gr. boolits quickly available. Depending on the situation, one or the other can be inserted to fit the potential situation with very llittle down time. I figure even if the snake is on two legs, unless they are holding a firearm on me at a range greater than 15' or so, the shot loads will more than occupy them long enough for me to switch magazines, after unloading the shot magazine thru the barrel of course! FWIW....Pilgrim

[DLCTEX]

I have formed shotshells for my 45 auto from 308 blank cartridges(military), 30-06 brass, etc.(good use for cases with split necks) cut just below the shoulder. I size the neck in a 41 mag. die until it just chambers, then load with something like Bullseye or unique, place an over powder wad cut from a styrofoam tray from restaurant take away, then pour in about 1/2 ounce of shot and cap it with another styro wad sealed in place with Dap tub and tile caulk. This has to be a single shot firing, but is effective on birds and rabbits to 25 yds. Dale

[twoworms]

I have used 6 & 71/2 shot in my 500 S&W. Its all in what you want to do with it, too big of shot and very few hits on the target...

Good luck,

Tim

[3sixbits]

Well for the 44 mag shotshell case use 30-40 krag cases cut down to the length of the cylinder, now your going to have to rummage around to find a die that will pull the case down to fit the chambers. Measure the case mouth id. slip your boots on and head for the leather company (Tandy's). You want to buy a leather punch that comes close to that case mouth id. On your way back to the barn you'll want to stop off at the auto parts store and buy some gasket material, two square feet is about a life time and a half supply. When you get back to the home range you'll want to find a clean empty jar with lid. Find a spot on your work bench you can punch out the gaskets and have at it. I used to mix my shot all the way from #9's down to #6's. drop bullseye in the primed case (you work out the amount) seat a wad with a punch drop in the shot to just below the top of the case with enough room left for your over the shot wad, crimp, stick the end in some melted wax (if you want to). This is pure poison for snakes. works great in .357mag also. Years ago there was a fellow that was making duplex loads with three bullets that stacked one on top of the other. Loaded in a pistol case it gave the effect of a group when fired at about 15 feet as I recall.

[Dale53]

I have loaded and used shot loads in revolvers for some time. I prefer the Speer shot capsules simply because you can get more shot in the capsules than in the case alone. #12 shot has it all over ANYTHING larger in diameter. You get LOTS more shot in a particular space. At the ranges that shot loads from a revolver are effective (15-20 feet) #12 just flat COVERS the area and has plenty of penetration to get the job done, LIKE RIGHT NOW!

I ordered my shot from Ballistic Products:
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

It seems kind of pricy, but one bag is nearly a lifetime supply if you limit it to snake loads.

My view on snakes is simple. If they are non-poisonous, I leave them alone. If they are poisonous and are close, they die. If they are poisonous and are not close to me and represent no danger to children or other people, I leave them alone.

However, if they get "in my face" then they will just have to pay the consequences. I have done a LOT of back packing in the eastern mountains and seldom met up with a "bad" snake. However, did on occasion. I don't go looking for them and expect them to not go looking for me.

A snake to be threatening, has to be close. Sometimes your time to react is short. A good reactive shot will have little problem in shooting a snake's head off with a solid bullet. Been there, done that (less than a second including reaction time). However, in rocky soil you may have a problem with the bullet coming back for YOU!!. Further, under a serious time "shortening" you will not have time to properly check the back ground. A shot load solves both problems. It is deadly on Mr. Snake, and poses FAR less danger to you and others. It also allows a bit of "wiggle room" for less than perfect shot placement. My preference is to carry one of two shot loads as the "next in line" with the rest of the cylinder full of wide meplat full load cast bullets (wild dogs, etc).

Dale53

[Dale53]

Please bear with me. The CCI .22 rimfire shot loads are far more effective than you will believe. In fact, sometimes they will do a better job than your painfully reloaded centerfire shot loads. The .22 magnum rimfire carries twice the shot load than the regular .22 long rifle. Both of them carry #12 shot and can be quite effective. They both are MUCH, MUCH more effective than the old crimped case .22 long rifle shot loads.

In fact, it would be hard to argue against a .22 magnum rimfire Ruger Single Six as a general purpose "woods rambler" kind of belt gun. I won't argue for those that prefer something larger, but the .22 magnum rimfire in not to be sneezed at for close range (under fifty yards) against dogs and coyotes, etc. I would prefer something a bit larger were I hiking in an area of suspected Marijuana patches, etc or were in bear country.

In Bear country, it is hard to beat a .44 magnum 4" (you can do a "first round up" with Speer shot capsules in this, also).

FWIW
Dale53

[BAGTIC]

Two 45 cal. round balls in a 45 Long Colt case with about 5 grs. of bullseye and at 25yrds. one ball point of aim second ball about 8 inches lower---- round balls being soft (BP) left a lot of lead in my barrel but was very effective.---- Mag


If you are casting your own balls drop them into water and HT them. I quench all my round balls and them tumble lube them with wax. The wax seals the surface and keeps them fom oxidizing.

[TDB9901]

Years ago there was a fellow that was making duplex loads with three bullets that stacked one on top of the other. Loaded in a pistol case it gave the effect of a group when fired at about 15 feet as I recall.

I have made a duplex load for my .38-.357's by swageing 00 buckshot in my old hammer type Lee sizing die to very short wadcutters, I would seat two of these under a Lee 105gr. semiwadcutter. Don't at this time remember the powder charge, but I used .38 spl 200 gr. data to derive it, as the total weight is in that range.

I got one impact, right at POA and the other two very close by at 15-20 feet or so. I used to load my wife's .38 with this when we lived in town and I was working nights. Figured one of those close to center of mass would be quite a wallop without excess penetration worries.

Just recently tried some #9 shot under a round ball as also described elsewhere,(by Poygan, I believe) and I think it will work for me, but I want to try some #12 shot, as the pattern is pretty thin in the center. The rifling spin gives it a do-nut shape, with the ball impact in the center.

Tom

[Baron von Trollwhack]

You can put 2 round balls sized to 358 in 38 special or 357 and they work fine with a powder charge appropriate for the weight. Roll crimp a bit. Not much accuracy beyond 20 ft. I like # 6 shot for 38, 44, and 45 colt . The plastic cups from Speer(?) are nice. I want the snake I shoot shredded. BvT

[PPpastordon]

I have used the Speer shot capsules with three (3) .315 round balls. The effect from my Security Six it quite good. Turns my 6-shooter into an 18-shooter - in a way! And I don't want to be in it's way inside a room on out to about 50 feet because it is still quite closely grouped out there.
just another 2 cents.

[Bret4207]

I have taken squirrels, rabbit, grouse and other such sized critters, along with cranky roosters, rats, cats etc with the Speer shot cartridges in 44 mag. Dad used to build 44's on single barrel shotgun actions back in the day when Numrich sold H+R 44 barrels for $3.95 or so. Quite popular as truck guns for a brief time in my area. Hey, for $85.00 it was a deal. They worked good with the shot capsules up to 35 feet or so.

[dakotashooter2]

I have made similar loads in 41 mag. A 410 shot cup will fit (snuggly) in a 41 case. powder followed by the shot cup which is trimmed to the same length as the case mouth, filled with shot, capped with a 38 cal gas check (inside the shot cup petals) and crimp. They work pretty well out to about 20 ft. The center seems to be a bit sparce and I think that may be due to interference by the gas check. I'm going to try something different for the overshot wad and see if it helps. I'm also going to try cut the petals off the shot cup to get more volume and see what difference that makes. I think the base makes for a better seal over the powder than other materials may.

It also gets me thinking I might have to look into one of the molds for a lightweight wadcutter I have seen for the 41 and do a combo load.

[Mk42gunner]

Personally I prefer a shotgun, 20 guage or larger; although a garden hoe works as well as anything if the snake is on the ground where you can get a good swing at it.

When I retired from the navy and moved back home I had a lot of snakes around the house and outbuildings, (my renters let the fields go to weeds for a year or so). I bought some of the CCI shot loads in 38 Special; they don't work on big snakes. There was one in the shed I was storing my household goods in until I remodeled the house, I had to shoot it twice and still ended up killing it with a hoe.

If I ever load any shot loads for a handgun they will have #11 or 12 shot.


Robert

[DLCTEX]

Dakotashooter2; In my experience the hole in a pattern is usually caused by too much powder blowing a hole in it as it leaves the barrel. Try lighter loads,and/ or faster powders. A styrofoam overwad cut with a cartridge case and glued in place works well. My dos centavos. Dale

[C1PNR]

I like to carry my 2 barrel *** Derringer in .38 Special if out and about where rattlers, etc., may be found.

Loaded with 2 rounds of .357 Mag brass, 2 grains Bullseye, cardboard wad, pour full of #9 to #12 shot, topped with a gas check (cup up or down - whatever works), and crimped over top.

Works like a champ out to about 8 or 10' and farther than that, I can walk around.[smilie=1:

My experience is the longer the rifled barrel, the more potential for a "donut" pattern.

My 3" Bulldog works good with the plastic Speer shot cup, and maybe some day I'll try loading some .44 Mag brass the same way I load the .357. YMMV

[Mavrick]

I've loaded my M58 .41 Mag 4" with 3-4 gr of Bullseye, or 4-5 gr of Unique, then a piece of cardboard from a tablet. I filled the case almost all the way up with #12 then crimped the case. There was just enough room to slide a piece of paper from the tablet under the crimp. Then I filled the end of the case with epoxy(I did a dozen at a time), being sure that there was epoxy under the crimp. My brother, who carries an M57 4" tested five magnum loads with the one shot load in the cylinder. I ran the magnums through twice in mine. The rounds stayed together, tho' I wouldn't want to run a third cylinderload.
The idea was to see if the shot loads would fall apart and jam the gun. I've also tried silicon-caulk...It didn't last the second cylinder. Seems to me, white glue should work as well as epoxy, and be easier to work with.
#12 sure works well at 10-12'! It just shreds every thing! Most of the shot bounced from marine plyboard, but some stuck. Snakes are a lot softer than wood, tho'. I haven't shot any snakes, yet, even if I've carried these shells in either my gun or my pocket, for several years.(not all the time, but when I'm outa town...lol)
Have fun...

[hunter64]

Well I finally got to the range today, been a long time. I tried my little homemade shotshells in my .44 magnum 629. I used a cut to cylinder length .303 british rifle brass which gives alot more room to put shot in. All I had for shotgun shells was 7 1/2 so I tried that. I put 10 grn of Unique then a cardboard wad over the powder and then filled the case to just about the top and then put another piece cardboard on top and used white glue to hold it in. At 10 feet the shot basically spread out to fill a 8.5x11 target with lots of spaces that a snake/bird could have been missed. The recoil was almost none existant and felt like I was shooting a .22. I think next I will increase the powder to 12 grn of Unique find some smaller shot and try that and then maybe use a .410 shotgun wad to hold the shot. It is kind of fun to play with. I also tried filling the case with .33 cal round balls, I think about 5 or 6 of them but all I found was 2 on the 8.5x11 not what I expected but I could always use the .410 was and try again.

[Scrounger]

you're going the wrong way on powder. More velocity will make the pattern bigger. I'd go down to 8 grains if I were you. And smaller shot. Any one who reloads shotgun would probably give you a cup of #9s.

[hunter64]

Good point Scrounger, I guess more velocity would open it up a bit, just seems like there is hardly any power at all. The problem is that hardly anyone reloads shotgun anymore because cheap trap loads are about 50 cents more a box than reloading them would cost. I will try different gun stores and find a box somewhere.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Lots of good stuff in this one thread. I've loaded shot in the 44 Magnum using the Speer Shot capsules, cut-off cylinder-length 303 Brit cases, and just gas-checks on the front and rear of the shot column.

I think the ultimate is the 303 Brit cases. For wading, I use the foam-lined poster board that is available at hobby/art shops (I got mine at Hobby Lobby). It is two sheets of poster-board with closed-cell styrofoam sandwiched in-between. It is available in various thicknesses, and for this load, I recommend using a couple layers of the thin stuff over the powder (the powder will burn through one layer of the thin stuff and play bad with the shot charge).

I think I loaded about 4.5-5.0grs of W231 over the LR (yes, rifle) primer, two layers of the thin foam board, then filled the case to the brim with #12 shot, and then one layer of the foam board glued into the "mouth" of the case. It is important to guide the foam board over the powder carefully. (I used a pencil with the eraser still fully intact, to straighten and tamp the over-powder "wads" down.)

For the cheapest and easiest version, use 44 Mag cases, seat a gas check upside-down over the powder, then a medium-thick wad of foam board, then fill the rest of the case with #10-#12 shot, and seal the mouth of the case with a thin layer of the foam sandwich board. This works about 80% as good as the cut-off 303 Brit cases, but is a LOT easier to handload.

[GP100man]

fellas in a pinch i have went to wally world & got a box of #9 & cut them open,almost 2# of shot!!

GP100man

[Scrounger]

If getting #9 shot is a problem, I'll run a group buy on it. I think most of us can easily buy it. It is expensive now, about $30 for a 25# bag but #12s are a lot more expensive and not available except from distributors. I'll buy a bag of #9s, break it down into 5# lots and Priority Mail 5 pounds to any one (in US) for $10. Tape and packing material makes that about a break-even proposition.

[rmb721]

The last few years I have been using the Speer capsules. Before that, I had a 3/8 leather punch that I used to cut wads from cereal boxes. After I put in the over shot wad, I would roll crimp the case and then melt candle wax on top to seal the case.

When I used the wad system, I used a .357 case instead of a 38 to hold more shot.

I use #10 shot. I bought a 5 pound bag a long time ago. The bag was just like the 25 pound bags only a 5. I don't know if #10 shot is still avaiolable or if five pound bags are either.

The #10 shot seems to work better for me than #9.

[hunter64]

Forgot to add that if your revolver has a recessed cylinder like the old S&W 29 or the Super Blackhawk then the head of the .303 brit will have to be thinned a bit to fit in as it is slightly bigger. I used my 629 that is not recessed and no problems at all. For a cutter I just used a .44 mag shell that I cut a couple of notches with a file in to make it sharp and just used cardboard from a cereal box for the wads. I like the gas check idea and the .410 wad cup and I will try them next with various loads of powder to see what I come up with.

[DLCTEX]

I think the biggest mistake made when building shot loads is using too much powder. The light load of shot doesn't need much, and I find that too much powder causes holes in the pattern, generally the center. I use styrofoam tray wads and have examined a lot of them. If you don't push too hard they stand up well as long as you use a fast powder and keep pressures down. When I increase the powder I start burning wads and opening up patterns. With the increased cost of gas checks I am too frugal to use them for shot loads.
My loads for 45 acp are 3.5 gr. of Bullseye with a styro. wad pressed down firmly with a 223 case, then enough shot to fill the case to just below the rim, then another wad pressed down firmly and glued in with Dap tub and tile caulk, which I find works better than white glue. I use my finger to apply the caulk and rake it from center to rim to make it adhere to the case. I leave about 1/16 th. in. above wad to let the caulk have a little surface to stick to. The shortened and necked 308 cases will work through the mag. , or the longer ones can be loaded singly and can hold 1/2 ounce of shot. None will cycle the action, and can be reloaded repeatedly with out sizing as the low pressures do not expand the case.
I would be interested in 5 lbs. of #12 shot, as I already have plenty of #9 for my future needs. $ 35 plus shipping have stopped me from ordering so far, and 25# would last me about 100 years at my present rate of consumption. Dale

[Scrounger]

I think the biggest mistake made when building shot loads is using too much powder. The light load of shot doesn't need much, and I find that too much powder causes holes in the pattern, generally the center. I use styrofoam tray wads and have examined a lot of them. If you don't push too hard they stand up well as long as you use a fast powder and keep pressures down. When I increase the powder I start burning wads and opening up patterns. With the increased cost of gas checks I am too frugal to use them for shot loads.
My loads for 45 acp are 3.5 gr. of Bullseye with a styro. wad pressed down firmly with a 223 case, then enough shot to fill the case to just below the rim, then another wad pressed down firmly and glued in with Dap tub and tile caulk, which I find works better than white glue. I use my finger to apply the caulk and rake it from center to rim to make it adhere to the case. I leave about 1/16 th. in. above wad to let the caulk have a little surface to stick to. The shortened and necked 308 cases will work through the mag. , or the longer ones can be loaded singly and can hold 1/2 ounce of shot. None will cycle the action, and can be reloaded repeatedly with out sizing as the low pressures do not expand the case.
I would be interested in 5 lbs. of #12 shot, as I already have plenty of #9 for my future needs. $ 35 plus shipping have stopped me from ordering so far, and 25# would last me about 100 years at my present rate of consumption. Dale

We are in the same boat on that #12 shot, Dale. If I could get 100# direct from the distributor (that means at a decent price, say $1 a pound delivered), I would gladly do a group buy.

[DLCTEX]

I tried to get my brother to get me a bag of #12 when he picked up supplies from his club's group buy, but they had to buy it by the pallet lots only. He has quit reloading, as stated above the cost difference between loaded shotgun ammo and reloading materials is too close now, but I'll ask if he could get some #9 for a group buy. He gets it through a club in San Antonio I think, so it could be a while before he gets back down that way, and he lives 250 miles from me, so it may be a while before I get to his place again. I'll ask. DALE

[Junior1942]

http://www.ballisticproducts.com has 10 lbs of #12 shot for $23.95 + shipping.

[MtJerry]

Thanks for that link Junior!

[Scrounger]

#3.25 a pound is too rich for me.

[Scrounger]

Does anybody know if Widner's is anywhere close to Memplis, Tennessee? And what their shipping costs are?
Reason is, they have 25 pound bags of $10 shot for $21. I can live with that price and #10 is certainly better than #9s or #7-1/2s. If their shipping isn't too bad, I can order some and sell it out to others here. How about 2 25# bags in an $8.10 box? Too cruel. Anyway, my nephew will be in Memphis in September and could bring back a couple of thousand pounds, no sweat, if Widner's is close to there.

[Junior1942]

#3.25 a pound is too rich for me.yes, but a 44 mag case will probably hold twice as many #12 pellets as #10 pellets. It's .050" dia vs .070" dia. My #11s are borderline on letting bumblebees slip through the pattern.

[45nut]

they are closer to Bristol.

[Ross]

I, too, have found the old adage "Little powder, much lead - Shoots far, kills dead" to be valid in my .44 Special with Krag and .303 Brit. cases. I've always used Bullseye to gain space for shot.

When I was loading some .30 Carbine shot loads using gas checks for both wads I found that if I delayed sizing until all else was completed it was much easier to seat the checks.

I don't see why 70 pounds of shot would cost more to ship than the $8.25 (?) FRB1 priority mail package.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

[Scrounger]

Just remembered years ago there were some articles on using empty gelatin capsules, available at most pharmacies, in shotshell cartridges. There were 2 or 3 sizes that worked out perfectly for the common handgun calibers. Much cheaper than the Speer Shot Capsules but they don't hold as much shot.

[Ross]

". . . empty gelatin capsules, available at most pharmacies . . . "
I tried that briefly back then. Pharmaceutical capsules are frail and water soluble. I believe that there are capsules that are suitable, but not from your local drug dealer.
Regards,
Ross

[woody1]

Does anybody know if Widner's is anywhere close to Memplis, Tennessee? And what their shipping costs are?
Reason is, they have 25 pound bags of $10 shot for $21. I can live with that price and #10 is certainly better than #9s or #7-1/2s. If their shipping isn't too bad, I can order some and sell it out to others here. How about 2 25# bags in an $8.10 box? Too cruel. Anyway, my nephew will be in Memphis in September and could bring back a couple of thousand pounds, no sweat, if Widner's is close to there.

I've posted this somewhere before. Widener's will ship two 25# bags of shot in the flat rate box for about $12, but you have to ask. I recently bought a bag of #10 from them and another, not #10. Shipped price was just a tad over $1/lb. If you can live with #10 it's prob'ly the best deal you're gonna get. Regards, Woody

[Possum]

I used the #12 shot I got from Ballistic products and it shot a great pattern out of a Super Blackhawk 44. I think I could get quite a few bumblebees at 10yds. It was quite loud and I think I will drop the powder down. I think I was using Unique, but I will have to check.

By the way, when I ordered they did not have it in stock. If you will place the order, they will not charge you until it arrives and you will be in line to get it.

[BAGTIC]

The shot loads worked very well on rattlers.

Cloudpeak

Must be welfare rattlers. Wherever I have lived it was the rattler's job to catch rats.