Lee 250 gr REAL in a 45/70 ?

[Johnch]

Has anyone tryed a Lee 45 cal REAL bullet in the 45/70 ?

A freind found a 2 gang mould at a flea market for $1 today
It is used , but usable

I had a little range lead left in the pot , so I casted a few up
If I can read , they are .464 - .465
So I will have to size them .460
But I figure the bullet should still hold enough lube :-D :-D

I will try 10 gr of Unique

I hope they shoot well .
Because I am looking for a plinker load for the 45/70 bolt gun

Look out ground hogs , incoming lead :Fire:

John

[mag_01]

Tried the real boolit in 45 ACP and 45Long colt with poor results---Mag

[Larry Gibson]

Somewhere between 6 and 8 gr of Bullseye will work. Try in 1 gr increments. Yo'll want to keep velocity down in the 800 to 1000 fps range for any accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[Ricochet]

While we're talking about REAL bullets, would someone who has them be kind enough to take a caliper and measure the outside diameter of the flat at the base?

I know they have a bevel on the base. I'm considering trying the 200 grain REAL in my San Marco Colt Walker replica, which has .440" chambers. I'd need the bevel to taper to .440" or smaller to start the boolits. I tried flat based .452" boolits yesterday. The results weren't pretty. Can't start them in the chambers straight, they tip and jam horribly. Got to have a tapered or heeled base that'll start into the chamber.

[TDB9901]

As I posted earlier, I use them in my Armi San Marco Remington replica, but I have never miked them.

If nobody else gets you an answer by then, I'll do that when I get home tonight, and post the results.

Tom

[drinks]

My mold drops at .450 bottom band and .460 top band, could not get a decent crimp on the narow edge, finally put 12gr Herco in and seated the REAL all the way down in the case so it was on top the powder, 12gr gave 1600fps, way too fast, so I plan to try 8-9gr next and see if I can get it down to 1000-1100fps.
At 1600fps, they gave a 3" group at 50yds.
This is a way to use some of the sorry nickle plated cases that split the neck after 2 or 3 loadings.

[Ohio Rusty]

I have some cast up in pure lead. The top band measures .460, the bottom band measures .455. The difference between mine and Drinks .450 bottom band is probably the hardened alloy shrinks a tad more than pure lead after cast. Just guessing.
Ohio Rusty

[Ricochet]

Thanks, Tom! I'm betting San Marco didn't keep different sets of boring and rifling tools for their different models of .44 cap & balls, but it's still possible they varied somewhat over time.

[snuffy]

Ricochet, the ones I have cast from pure lead, measure .425-.430 at the end of the taper at the base. They should enter the cylinder mouth at .440 with some room left over.

I could find some cast, but can't find the mold!:confused: I either need a bigger loading room or a rummage sale!

[Ricochet]

Thanks, Snuffy!

[Johnch]

:coffee: No idea how I got .464 - .465 may have been asleep :coffee:
I just checked again .461 on the bottom and .462 on the top

I ran 50 thru a .460 sizer and lubed them with 50/50
May try to not lube all the groves next time

Loaded 25 at 10 gr of unique , the other 25 got 9 gr of Unique

Didn't have time to check how fast I was pushing them

But the 10 gr load produced 2" groups ( 3 - 5 shot groups ) at 75 yards
The 9 gr load produced 1.6" groups ( 3 - 5 shot groups ) at 75 yards
May try to lower the charge after I check how fast I was pushing them .

Seating the REAL in a 45/70 case is a PITA
The real trouble was trying to cripm into the top band

Next time I plan on trying to leave the top grove unlubed and grimping lightly to the top of the 2 band


Johnch

[wiljen]

While we're talking about REAL bullets, would someone who has them be kind enough to take a caliper and measure the outside diameter of the flat at the base?

I know they have a bevel on the base. I'm considering trying the 200 grain REAL in my San Marco Colt Walker replica, which has .440" chambers. I'd need the bevel to taper to .440" or smaller to start the boolits. I tried flat based .452" boolits yesterday. The results weren't pretty. Can't start them in the chambers straight, they tip and jam horribly. Got to have a tapered or heeled base that'll start into the chamber.

Does this mean I'm off the hook on those 452374s ?

[drinks]

Got some and remeasured.
The 200gr is .461, top, .454, bottom, middle is .456, the bevel is a bit harder, trying to determine the diameter of the end of a truncated cone is about like trying to say how high a coin went before it started back down. My best guess is .435.
The 250gr was .461. top, .456 next to top, .454 next to bottom and .450 for the fourth, bottom band.
It also seemed to be .435 at the end of the tapered base.
I am going to make a reamer that will make a wider top band and bottom band, at .461 diameter for both.
Should still be plenty of lube capacity, especially at the 1000-1200 fps I plan on using, the bottom of the lube spaces is .410.
I thing about 8gr Universal or 10gr Herco will give me the velocities I want.

[Ricochet]

Does this mean I'm off the hook on those 452374s ?

Yes. THANKS!

Actually, I've ordered a 6-hole Lee 452-230-TC-TL or whatever they call it from Midway. I think there's a reasonably good chance it'll work in the Walker, good enough that I'll gamble on it, and it ought to be a usable boolit in my .45 ACP in any case.

[TDB9901]

Richochet,

Sorry it took me so long, had nothing but disasters one after another after got home tonight.

My 200 gr. REAL was quite a bit smaller. I got .448 on the bottom bands and .453 on the top. This was average on 4, measured with a micrometer, in nearly pure very soft lead.

You'll be happy with the 230 tc tl either way, it works good for me in .45 ACP.

Just as a additional info, my Remington has rather pronounced throats to the mouth of the cylinder, tapering quite rapidly. Even the .453 top of the REAL fits easily in the mouth, and then hits. They are swaged down instead of sheared, but shoot very well. Must fit the bore OK, and be long enough to be aligned in the forcing cone in spite of the open mouth of the cylinder. Gonna slug the bore just for giggles tomorrow.

Good luck.

Tom

[Leftoverdj]

Ricochet, I'm pretty sure I have a mould for an SWC boattail .45 ACP bullet in my junk somewhere. I'll try to remember to root about and see just what it is.

[Ricochet]

Thanks, guys!

My Walker's chambers are just straight to the mouth with square shoulders. I've wondered if cutting a little taper into the chamber mouths wouldn't be a good idea.

[ace1001]

You have to understan the REAL boolit has very little contact with the barrel. Just the tip of the three rings. Gas cutting is a REAL possibility:) Yes, size them and shoot them in your pistol, just don't overload them, they are heavier than your round balls. Ace

[TDB9901]

Ricochet,
Slugged bore on Rem today, .448, could explain why handles REAL's, sizes them down enough to seal.

As Ace says, the tips of the bands are very thin.

Tom

[Ricochet]

Thanks, Tom!