Note from Missouri Bullet Company

[funkymonkey1111]

Just saw this on the Missouri Bullet Company facebook feed:

A heads-up: We are on the verge of making a fundamental change in our business model and wanted to give you all some early information about it, as you have all been nice enough to have taken the time to come here to our company Facebook page and deserve to be the first to know. The problem is that business is good. Too good. We can't meet demand. As you know, we have wholesale customers that acco...unt for major purchases and both the quantities ordered and the volume ordered are increasing steadily for them. Meanwhile, the retail trade is mushrooming out of control. Today, for example, Jo Ann took approximately fifty telephone calls, all while she was trying to pack, ship, and size bullets. Yesterday, two trucks arrived for wholesale pickups and Jo Ann and myself had worked until 2:30 AM yesterday trying to complete the orders, while Mark worked all that night and then throughout the day yesterday before the trucks came. And this is killing us. We're not spring chickens any more and can't keep this up. And so we have tentatively decided that we are going to close the door to new retail (internet) trade and exclusively service only the wholesale customers and our existing customer base, which we be grandfathered in. We are going to kill the Blue Press advertisement ASAP and impliment an access code on the ordering portion of website, which will have been sent to our 14,000+ existing customers when we ready the move.

This is what happens when a company evolves to meet changing circumstances and we don't want to do it. Not making new sales is likely to cause me a heart attack but it's something we have to do.

Anyhow, I welcome your comments as we formulate our plans for the future.

Brad

[Atakawow]

Like yelling "fish shortage" at a fishing village.

[nvbirdman]

Ask Obama for a government grant of $100,000 to hire three more employees at minimum wage.

[sig2009]

I don't use Missouri anymore. Tried their 9mm cast bullets and leaded my barrels too much.

[Bwana]

Sounds like they're not charging enough. That was one thing wrong with Kead.

[Josh Smith]

It really is a shame. Shooting these folks' boolits is what got me interested in casting my own!

Josh

[GabbyM]

Sounds more to me like ICE closed in on there labor pool.

[leftiye]

Methinks thay complain too much. The real question is - are they making enough money to hire help? DUH!

[MT Gianni]

Methinks thay complain too much. The real question is - are they making enough money to hire help? DUH!

I have seen the business mode "Lose a litle on every sell but make up for it in volume". It isn't pretty.

[popper]

Probably a wise business move for him. He could add a bigger handling fee and get the gripes or cut his handling costs and sell to the BB stores. Either way, the cost to us is going to be greater, but with a 10% increase in the cost of everything, complaining won't do any good.

[geargnasher]

I think they're missing one of the most basic laws of running a small business: If, by the grace of God you're swamped with demand for your product/service, rather than kill yourself working for the same prices, raise prices until the demand levels off to a managable level. Profits will be higher, the work load the same. This can be tempered by adding employees/equipment to help meet demand, but investments in labor and tooling must be carefully considered in light of product demand cycles as well as the fact that the more equipment/manpower a company has, the lower the profit margin due to lost efficiency and upkeep costs. Employees are expensive.

Gear

[snuffy]

What's amazing about this thread, is this guy with the funkymonkey handle has posted this on 3 forums as his FIRST POST. All within 4 minutes! Why register just to place this business decision by MBC to limit it's sales? I'm well aware of copying something into the clipboard feature of a PC, then click paste on a forum post, but three forums in 4 minutes?!:-P:smile::!:

I sense a conspiracy here. Maybe it's just my suspicious nature, or it's the solar flare that caused it???¿:veryconfu:shock:

I know absolutely nothing about running a business, so I don't know if this was the right decision for Brad or not. I just hope he continues to prosper. One thing for sure, I'm glad I cast my own!

[ku4hx]

What's amazing about this thread, is this guy with the funkymonkey handle has posted this on 3 forums as his FIRST POST. All within 4 minutes! Why register just to place this business decision by MBC to limit it's sales? I'm well aware of copying something into the clipboard feature of a PC, then click paste on a forum post, but three forums in 4 minutes?!:-P:smile::!:

I sense a conspiracy here. Maybe it's just my suspicious nature, or it's the solar flare that caused it???¿:veryconfu:shock:

I know absolutely nothing about running a business, so I don't know if this was the right decision for Brad or not. I just hope he continues to prosper. One thing for sure, I'm glad I cast my own!

There's no mystery to running any business. You want to grow the company, grow the bottom line and assuming there are shareholders you want to increase stockholder equity. How you do all of those can be a challenge.

What's so odd about this announcement to me as a former small business owner is he has the situation most businesses pray for: more business. What he needs to do is what he feels is best for his company and we may not have the whole story.

Given today's world of instant electronic communications, I can understand getting the word out widely and quickly to try and not alienate customers both present and future.

But generally in situations like this a business will expand, both plant and personnel, to meet higher demand. If the owner feels the increased demand is temporary, expanding can be a very bad thing.

[rsrocket1]

What's amazing about this thread, is this guy with the funkymonkey handle has posted this on 3 forums as his FIRST POST. All within 4 minutes! Why register just to place this business decision by MBC to limit it's sales? I'm well aware of copying something into the clipboard feature of a PC, then click paste on a forum post, but three forums in 4 minutes?!:-P:smile::!:


... and that he has posted this ONE TIME since joining 14 months ago

on another site, he joined in December of 2010 and made his "first post" today.:violin:

[dragon813gt]

Obviously we aren't privy to the business model or the books. But wholesale is greater volume at a significantly reduced cost. For whatever reason that is the road they have chosen to go down. I hope it works out. But that is a strategy that has caused the collapse of a great many companies.


Brought to you by TapaTalk.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I like the geargnasher's idea, "raise prices until you start to lose business." That is what is wrong with this country the last fifty years. I have seen enough businesses do that, and then not be able to figure out why sales drop drastically, or the business fails.

Consumers remember companies that gouge them, and spread that word. There is a gun shop in Boise that tried to charge me $60 per 1000 for Federal 215's a couple years ago. Other places were in the $40 price range. I made a mental note, and told everybody I know about the gouging.

Maybe this person works for MBC, and this is how they conduct their marketing business model...?

Rich

[JohnFM]

Hmm, this action by the Op is strange.
Posting this news all over the web and always a first post !?!
I've bought from MBC and talked to them on the phone.
Sure seemed like good people to me and like a lot of small companies were burning the candle from both ends trying to keep up.
Time will tell how this turns out.

[snuffy]

... and that he has posted this ONE TIME since joining 14 months ago

on another site, he joined in December of 2010 and made his "first post" today.

I didn't notice that on TFL and THR. The registration date, I mean. As arte Joahnson would have said; VERRRRY INTERESTING!

Increasing the price would result in decreased sales, well at least it is as far as gasoline is concerned. A report on fox snews said we're buying gas at 2002 levels, we're driving less. I sure am, having just retired,(actually last Monday was one year!), I can't afford gas like I could while working. I have to make one trip work for several things, and figure the best route.

I bought some lino from MBC once, Brad posted on THR that he got a ton of mixed letters in bar form from a linotype machine. Turned out to be some soft spacer in it, but the price was right considering it wasn't pure lino.

[Shiloh]

I don't use Missouri anymore. Tried their 9mm cast bullets and leaded my barrels too much.

Probably like most commercial 9mm cast. They are too small.

SHiloh

[RayinNH]

Ask Obama for a government grant of $100,000 to hire three more employees at minimum wage.

And if you tell them your using solar melting pots the figure will go to $500,000...Ray

[Harry O]

I have ordered a bunch of 38-40 bullets from them for CAS. I compared the cost of about 8 or 9 places for the same bullet. The cost for Missouri was among the lowest out there and they were close to home so the shipping was a little less than elsewhere. They are good bullets, but not great ones. I had to toss (into the melt pile) about 5% of them because of large voids in the base. Even so, they were about as cheap as I could get them anywhere else.

My opinion is that they should raise prices to match others in the business.

[fcvan]

Wow, lots of ideas from folks on how this company can run their business. My thoughts were along similar lines. If there is that kind of demand, and MBC is tapering back, it would seem there is room for another start up. very interesting . . .

I loved the comment about a solar smelter, too funny. "Cast boolit company, specializing in wheelgun projectiles, introducing Cylindera" (I know, very bad pun) Somehow I don't think my neighbors would appreciate all the solar panels needed to run a 220V electric smelter. It can be done but I'm sure the EPA would be all over whatever company tried to get start-up money. Sadly, I think it would be more likely to see General Electric setting up operations for massive production in China. Frank

[DrCaveman]

I think geargnasher, harryO, and fcevan are on the right track here. Raise retail prices to more closely match competitors, while allowing large-volume wholesale orders to remain low in price. The amount of logistics and record keeping for 10 orders per day is about the same, whether each order is for 1000 boolits or 100,000 boolits. Obviously revenue is greater with the larger orders.

I trust that they are at least making a penny or two per boolit, even at their low price point. I do understand how a fine line can be crossed, however, when dealing with thousands of individual customers per month. A handful of incorrect/blem orders can kill the profitability of 100's of other orders. Again, wholesale orders will largely reduce this effect, and raising prices 10-15% to the public will also help offset inevitable mistakes made by on overworked staff.

I have to concur that MBC is largely why I got into casting. While they were the most affordable boolits I could find, those tips still constituted 40-60% of my reloading costs. MBC helped me to realize the effects of various cast boolit shapes & weights, all before I had any knowledge of casting. I must thank them for inspiring my entry into this satisfying craft, and if their ascension to the next tier of boolit casting companies opens up a spot for another start-up, as mentioned above, then that is great. This would surely help allow others curious about cast boolits to get into the game without too big an investment.

Lastly, profit is not a sin. While I despise most of what Warren buffet and George soros represent, a hard-working person deserves to be paid well for producing a product that people want. It sounds like everyone at MBC is busting their tails, so bump up profits and give everyone who is sweating and bleeding a raise. Then at least they can afford the new guns & shooting accessories they want, so when there is finally a break, they can go enjoy themselves. They have earned it!

[Chicken Thief]

We are going to kill the Blue Press advertisement ASAP and impliment an access code on the ordering portion of website, which will have been sent to our 14,000+ existing customers when we ready the move.


A mom & pop buisness with that many customers?
I think something smells like yesterdays diapers!

If every customer orders only once every 2 years that accumulates to @ 20 orders a day.

[ioon44]

I buy good quality bullets from GLC Bullets at http://www.glcbullets.com/
This is a new company in Springfield MO with all new equipment and is focused on high quality bulles.

[Kermit2]

+1 on GLC Bullets of Springfield. The owner, John Coats, is a very nice man. I stopped by his place one day and he showed me his operation. Good equipment & shop. Good looking bullets. I've used GLC Bullets in .45 ACP loads and .45 Colt loads. They've worked well for me.

[XWrench3]

Employees are expensive.
ESPECIALLY for a small business! it is good that the business is successful, but being constantly overwhelmed is not good either. i, as much as it rubs me the wrong way as a consumer, would have to agree on raising the prices though. that will curtail some of the new orders, slow down some of the existing ones, and give you some extra profits to either hire more help, or maybe some kind of machinery to help you keep up with demand. no business is worth killing yourself over. and running at 130% all of them time is a great way to end up with a heart attack! and then, what would happen to the business? you are already shorthanded, loosing the chief player will really cripple the business. you have to figure out how to get some amount of down time for everyone involved. not 6 trips a year to the Bahama's for 3 weeks, but if there is no down time, you will eventually get the permanent one. 6 feet under!

[Adam10mm]

Sounds more to me like ICE closed in on there labor pool.
That statement is completely false. You have no idea what you are talking about, so it's best if you kindly keep your idiotic thoughts to yourself. Thanks.


Methinks thay complain too much. The real question is - are they making enough money to hire help? DUH!
Yes they are. Problem with employees is hiring the right ones. In their pool of potential applicants, few have met the bar. Expansion isn't always the right answer. They are simply continuing to supply their current customers. If someone new wants to buy their bullets, they can easily go to one of their dealers. Nobody complains about having to buy Black Hills Ammunition from a dealer instead of BHA directly.


A mom & pop buisness with that many customers?
I think something smells like yesterdays diapers!
You just don't have a clue. They do have that many customers in their database. MBC sold over 15 million bullets last year. Put that into perspective, 15 million bullets to 14 thousand customer is barely over 1,000 bullets each customer. It isn't just two people running the business. They run three shifts of employees.

What you're seeing is the natural progression that many companies in this industry have taken. Retail direct to make the most profit and get your name out there. Then pick up dealer and wholesale accounts when you can meet that demand. When retail sales are hampering your ability to fill orders for your wholesale accounts, cut off retail direct sales for new customers. The final step is wholesale distribution only. The brand name firearm manufacturers did this and so did the ammunition manufacturers. The difference is MBC is telling their retail customer base about it rather than cutting them off without notice like Federal, Winchester, Browning, etc did.

[Texantothecore]

One of the problems they are looking at is what happens to their business when Obama leaves DC? Should they invest capital in bigger faster machinery? Invest in more employees?

I am not sure what I would do in this instance.

[runfiverun]

the thing is they ain't 30.
you could get more equipment,order more lead,hire more employees,and take a bigger market share. and then hope to keep it long enough to pay off the loans.
it's another story to take that gamble when you are 60.
meeting a wholesale contract does make good business sense, it's a bread and butter decision.

[ChuckS1]

And this all concerns me why? I cast my own boolits so who cares...

[H110]

In the business world this is the last thing one would want to do. Stop accepting new business, What! Just watch what happens now, cater to the big boy's and you better hope the big boys show you the same loyalty.

[Adam10mm]

Sometimes it's the best choice. Big deal if they aren't taking retail sales from new customers. Those interested customers can buy from a retailer like they do with most everything else in life.

Instead of packing up 100 orders in a day, it makes economic sense to make 10 shipments a day to dealers and distributors. Much less labor and cost. How many small orders does it take to pack and ship to match the 100,000 bullet orders that dealers purchase?

[sig2009]

I buy good quality bullets from GLC Bullets at http://www.glcbullets.com/
This is a new company in Springfield MO with all new equipment and is focused on high quality bulles.

Company may be new but server sucks. Can't get on the website!

[ioon44]

Company may be new but server sucks. Can't get on the website!

If you can't get on the website then try 417-838-4040 or 417-882-8130.

[dnotarianni]

Funny nothing on Missouri Bullet's site about this. Just checked their prices and the prices of the other site that was listed here in this thread and what my local shop gets per 1000. Neither site has free shipping vs local guy where I have to pay tax instead of shipping. Given the numbers, me thinks supporting the local guy for an extra buck or two is the better choice especially since I get out of the house and away from the screaming wife, kids, dogs ect! Naturally if it is something other than a normal pistol caliber then mail order is the way to go if you don't cast.

Dave

[Bambeno]

The last time I bought cast bullets was from BullX so it's been awhile :) But it is good to see any firearms related new buisiness doing well.

[ku4hx]

Has anybody actually contacted the company to get it from the horse's mouth?

[Adam10mm]

Yes, I know Brad personally. Professional courtesy dictates what was said to me is privileged and private information. I will say the accusations in this thread are far off from reality.

[MissouriBullet]

Hi Guys -

I'd thought it would be a good idea to provide a heads-up for our Facebook fans that we would probably be cutting back on volume a bit by limiting sales to existing retail and wholesale customers. Somehow that simple expository statement has been variously interpreted to mean that we will terminate all retail sales, that ICE has deported our staff, or that something fishy is going on, that no business in its right mind would ever do such a thing, etc. etc..

So, I'd like to mention a couple of things. It's Sunday morning and I have a few minutes before heading out to the shop to start the day's production. We really do have a bit over 14,000 retail customers and we really do supply two major distributors (awaiting word on a third one) who order significant quantity. Last year we really did ship 17,000,000 bullets against 8196 orders. The postage on those shipments was $120,168.00. On an average day we produce about 75k or so bullets of the approximately 70 bullets in our line. I say these things to explain the scale of what we're dealing with.

I don't want to raise prices. Stupid, right? But the margins are right and we're making the right amount of money. Jo Ann and I are comfortable. I don't want to gouge anyone. I know what the raw materials cost and how much labor cost is associated with product units. We don't have a lot of overhead, as we pay cash for our equipment and physical plant and always have. When something needs to be expanded, we do it organically, using revenue to pay for it and not getting a loan because I dislike the idea of being beholden to anyone but our customers.

We run one shift of employees. Freakshow said three shifts - I wish! There are only five of us, including my wife and myself. But good help is, believe it or not, hard to find. Very hard. We have employee stories that would curl your hair. Laughable and sad at the same time. We are constantly trying to hire in good folks who can do the job but getting the right people in place is difficult. As a result, meeting demand is a problem. As it is, the employees work a 40-hour week while Jo Ann and I work 12-14 hours a day and that would include Saturday and Sunday. And still we are having difficulty keeping up with the retail orders which come in at the approximate rate of 25 per day, not to mention the distributor orders.

Possible solutions? Expansion has been mentioned. No go, there. I don't know of any bullet casting company that has the production infrastructure we have, other than possibly Laser Cast. We have eight Magma Mark 7 and Mark 8 Bullet Masters and another one is due in within two weeks. We have eight Magma Lube Masters. We have a logistics manager and a logistics assistant to keep things sorted out during the production fury, making sure that the right bullets are being made and tracked into the outgoing stream. Raising prices? Wouldn't be right, for me. Alloy costs aren't that high right now and, as mentioned, we own all of our equipment so there isn't any loan interest to worry about. As former IT people, my wife and I maintain our own IT infrastructure (she does the web, SQL, and shopping cart side and I do the Unix back-end) on HP servers we host right here in our house. The production facility is on our rural property, so there's no rent or extra payment in that regard. One thing that has gone up is our insurance coverage - we were visited Friday by our insurance lady and told that Blue Cross was raising premiums for our group policy by 20% effective in July (we pay 75% of our employees' premiums) so that isn't good. But a few hundred extra dollars every month isn't that horrible, I guess.)

So, we're busy. We're way too busy, actually. Yes, we are a Mom and Pop operation, I guess, in that we are privately held and this is a family-owned business. But we're big enough to have had to hassle with OSHA (we won) and to have had to obtain a International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) certification from the United States Department of State at the cost of $2250.00 per year so that we can export. We have a 401k plan for our employees, along with the group health and dental insurance coverage. But we do a pretty good volume in spite of our humble roots. We're getting a 23-ton truckload of alloy in from Mayco Industries every four weeks (actually, we just ordered - and paid for - two truckloads for delivery this month and next and saved $.02/lb.) So this is a pretty healthy business by any measure, in my opinion.

But we can't meet demand and get as many orders filled in a timely manner as we want. I truly, truly hate not having the bullets that people order ready to go. And so as an interim measure I decided that we're going to have to staunch the flow of sales to new customers. Is that such a big deal? Nothing whatever changes for the existing customer base. We just won't be taking in new customers for a while until we get supply matched up with demand. As new employees are brought in, we'll be able to make enough bullets fast enough that we will be able to turn the orders around in 48 hours again. Limiting new sales seemed like the lowest-impact solution to a temporary problem that wouldn't harm our existing customers and let us get orders out more quickly until we can get the people we need in to help us. I want to run a second shift. I don't want to work until ten or eleven o'clock every darned night. I don't want Jo Ann to have to take telephone calls from angry customers who don't have their bullets yet.

What would you do? I don't want to raise prices just because we can. That would punish our existing loyal customers and that is needless. And it would be a big hassle for our distributors who publish catalogs. So I made the decision to limit sales to existing customers for a while. Is that so horrible?

Anyhow, it's time to get out there and get some bullets made. It's a pretty day here and I would enjoy doing some yardwork or maybe take a ride on one of my Harleys, but until we get staffed-up to the right level, that's not going to happen.

So thanks for reading. I hope this clarifies some of the confusion that's out there.

Brad

[ku4hx]

Hi Guys -

I'd thought it would be a good idea to provide a heads-up ... et al

Thanks for the clarification; somehow I felt we just didn't have the whole story. Nothing like getting it "straight from the horse's mouth" as my mama used to say.

[fatelk]

I like to hear small business success stories. I've seen what it takes to run a small business (enough to know I don't care to do it, at least not at this point in my life). The failure rate is pretty high, even for those who do it right. I can really respect those that work day in and day out to build something up and make it work.

One comment about how hard it is to find good employees. Sometimes when you find a good worker, it may not be easy to keep them. Those few with the work ethic, motivation, intelligence and honesty that make them a valued employee are often able to find something else that pays more than you can afford. Either that or they just might start out on their own.

It's kind of like the first house my wife and I rented when we were first married. The landlord loved us. When we bought our own house and moved out, he made some comment about how the best renters always end up doing that.

[Certaindeaf]

A business can do what it wants. We can do what we want. What's the big deal?

[sparky45]

Well, I for one have gotten EXCELLENT service and rapid shipping each and every time I have ordered. They(MBC) has been working their a$$es off for quite some time, and it sounds like they have decided to step off the merry go round. Good luck with the future of the business.

[Love Life]

Were it not for MBC I probably wouldn't be a caster today. I ordered my first alloy from them when they still sold it in 8lb ingots instead of 50lb pigs. The price was right for a very good clean alloy. I even got a response from a real person, which means more to me than just about anything else when I deal with a company.

To MBC: Keep up the outstanding work and good luck to you!!!

[mo_bio]

I still buy bullets from them and cast my own too. I like supporting a MO company and will one way or another. We are lucky to have so many shooting related companies here in MO. Lucky until I have to pay sales tax on all of my orders. :)