Just read an article in Muzzleloader

[Boerrancher]

I was reading an article in the Jan/Feb 2011 issue of Muzzleloader, yeah I know old news, about possibles, and the author was getting ready to try out a new style ball puller/patch worm. What struck me as odd was he had stated that he had fired the gun a couple times while out hunting, and under normal circumstances he would have just cleaned the gun down to the load and put it up so that it would be loaded for the next weekend's hunt, but since he wanted to try the new style puller he would pull the ball and unload it.

Now apparently from what I can gather this particular author of the article is a regular contributor and a seasoned muzzleloader shooter. I would think that what he was doing would destroy the breach end of the bore in short order. I failed to mention that he was using a flint lock of some sort because he talked of clearing the pan and putting a feather in the touch hole. To my way of thinking leaving fouling and a fresh charge together for an extended period is asking for trouble. On the other hand I have heard that real black powder fouling is not nearly as corrosive as many of the priming compounds used in percussion caps, so maybe it is not as critical on a flinter to scrub them down right after firing a few shots, especially if you live in a fairly arid part of the country.

I just don't think I am brave enough to leave my guns unattended for a week. Heck, I scrub with hot water until the water comes out clear, and then I hose it down with WD40 to dry up the water. After a few days I run a patch with WD40 on it again just to make sure nothing is growing in the bore. Call me over zealous, or paranoid if you will, but I have night terrors of finding rusted bores, so I go out of my way to do everything to keep my gun clean. I still believe in the Standing Orders of Maj Robbert Rodgers, especially order #2: Have your musket clean as a whistle... I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on firing your musket or rifle a couple times while hunting and then instead of unloading it and cleaning it, you clean it down to the load and put it away for a week or so.

Best wishes,

Joe

[gnoahhh]

I have left charges down the pipe for as long as six months with no ill effect. BP is very hygroscopic but if the patched ball is sealing it on top, and the touch hole is plugged, and you don't let it lay out in the rain, 'taint nothin' to fear. Lots more in this man's world to worry about than that IMO.

If you really want to protect your bore forget about the WD-40. It's a good water displacing agent [W ater D isplacing-(formula #) 40] and that's about it. Not intended for, nor is it very good at in my experience, long term rust prevention. Plus if your stock wood gets saturated with it from repeated use, you'll play Billy Hell when trying to refinish it if it ever comes to that.

[RhodeHunter]

I don't get it. If he was leaving a load in place, then when was he going to get to test his new puller thingy??

[Boz330]

I have left loads in a clean gun for months at a time with no ill effect. I sure wouldn't load it after firing and leave it for any length of time though. Maybe a weekend hunt but longer. It just ain't that much trouble to clean it.

Bob

[Mike Brooks]

I start with a fouled bore and leave my gun loaded through deer season, I may get several shots and have it loaded a week or two. No problemo in over 30 years.

[Boerrancher]

I know that leaving loads in a clean gun won't hut a thing, I had a C&B revolver that would stay loaded for months at a time when I was a Kid. I just can't get past leaving a gun dirty, and worse yet to me anyway, half dirty, half clean, and loaded.

I also know that WD40 is not really a great rust preventative, but it is a good displacer of water, and by drying then saturating the inside of the bore with it, all of the moisture is displaced, and moisture = potential rust. Once I am sure I have successfully displaced all of the moisture, the saturated patch a few days later, the gun is left to dry, as WD40 does quickly evaporate over a few days. The gun is then stored on/in the windowsill where the temps are fairly constant as compared to the rest of the house. Yes, I have guns stacked in my widows of my home. Not just my muzzleloaders, but also a lever gun. We never know when the coyotes will invade the yard. I keep the few guns I shoot regularly close at hand.

Best wishes,

Joe

[2571]

Buddy removed percussion cap, put loaded rfle in garage for a week. Next weekend, he replaces that same cap. Sees monster deer, piece fails to fire.

Deer flees; buddy applies fresh cap, pulls trigger and piece disharges.

So much for saving one loading/unloading and the price of one percussion cap.

[Omnivore]

I've never left a load in a fouled gun until this last hunting season. Two missed shots (I know-- don't even start) in about a week, followed by the third shot which took the deer. 50 cal percussion rifle. No problems that I could tell.

For several years I've been leaving the same charge in the clean barrel for up to a week (that's the total length of the ML hunting season) and never had a problem yet. It's been below zero outside sometimes, and I take the loaded rifle in the warm house until the next day, repeat until tag is filled. That's one shot per season until this last one, so traditionally the loaded barrel has been clean.

Then again we're talking about a low humidity area, generally, and in late November when the house is being heated it's pretty dry inside. When the ice cold gun comes in after a hunt, it does get some condensation on it, but it soon evaporates.

Several issues here being mixed together, but I agree with the OP-- it does make me slightly nervous to leave a gun with fouling in it. It would depend on the cleaning and treatment process, and on the environment in which the gun is stored I expect. Everyone has a different system, and there are those who say they can leave a BP gun for a week before cleaning it, without problems. I'd never leave a gun in an un-heated garage...unless I lived in Arizona or someplace with similar warm and dry climate.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have bought yard sale guns that were left loaded and a fouled bore, got them cheap and replaced the barrel.
I am less concerned about the corosion issue than A, getting my but kicked for leaving the gun dirty (flash backs from 40+ years ago) B, a miss fire when it counts. Reading one of the accounts of the over mountin milita going to Kings Mountin about 1/3 of the encampment pulled their loads at a time and cleaned their guns before the battle. Yep I blow it off and clean it each night.

[smoked turkey]

Once my muzzleloader has been fired I just can't leave it dirty. I must clean it that night or I am sure I would toss and turn until I got up and cleaned the silly thing. I have shot deer at last light. It makes for a long evening until I get everything cleaned (deer and rifle). By the time I get myself cleaned up and in bed I am dog tired. I also carry a loaded rifle several days during season without shooting/cleaning as long as it has not been rained on and I haven't had any trouble with misfires.

[troy_mclure]

I run a few patches of bore butter down my barrel after shooting. That's usually about all I do. I usually have such a tight patch/ball that there is little residue left.

[Boerrancher]

I guess much of my problem with the author's comment about leaving a fouled and loaded gun go for a week, is that it goes against my up bringing. As a kid ratting around here on the farm, both Dad and Granddad, were sticklers about keeping a gun clean and working. I was brought up with the firm belief that the firearm you packed out was your life line, if things went bad. There were no cell phones to call home if you fell and broke your leg... You had your gun and that was it. It could keep the 'yotes off of you and signal for help when folks started looking for you when you didn't make it back before night fall. If you fall down with a gun, it had better not touch the ground, protect the gun at at all costs, and may God have mercy on you if you put a gun away dirty, no matter how cold, wet, and tired you were, because Dad wouldn't. Fast forward to nearly 20 years of Army training, which only reinforced what Dad and Granddad had pounded into me at an early age, sometimes literally. It is no wonder I can't let a gun sit after it has been fired. Even my smokeless guns get a patch run through them and wiped down good with an oil cloth before they are put back in the rack or safe. As I stated in the OP I have followed the second standing order of Maj Rogers since I was old enough to pack a gun.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Alan]

If there is no moisture, BP fouling is totally inert. Balls seals the bore, and you are fine. Humidity below about 30 % and you are fine.

Do NOT try that experiment w/ Pyro unless you want to buy a new barrel.

[Boerrancher]

If there is no moisture, BP fouling is totally inert. Balls seals the bore, and you are fine. Humidity below about 30 % and you are fine.

Do NOT try that experiment w/ Pyro unless you want to buy a new barrel.

I have seen more guns over the years ruined with Pyrodex and trip seven than all the other ruined guns in my life combined, that includes guys shooting 308s out of their 270s. I was always told that moisture was the killer when it came to BP fouling. I still can't let a dirty gun sit. Just like when I shot the coyote the other day. I reloaded for the walk home, but when I got home I shot the squirrel target, and then cleaned the gun before I put it back in its home in the windowsill. Sometime today I will run a couple dry patches through it and it will be ready to go the next time I decide to go do something with it.

Best wishes,

Joe

[John Taylor]

Please don't use WD-40 on guns. I know it seems to work great for it's intended water displacement but it leaves a sticky gummy mess when it dries out. I get guns in quite often that don't work because someone cleaned with WD-40 or PB-blaster or 80 or some of the other "penetrating oils". Most are made from kerosine with a few additives and there is no real protection for the metal.

[Boerrancher]

Please don't use WD-40 on guns. I know it seems to work great for it's intended water displacement but it leaves a sticky gummy mess when it dries out. I get guns in quite often that don't work because someone cleaned with WD-40 or PB-blaster or 80 or some of the other "penetrating oils". Most are made from kerosine with a few additives and there is no real protection for the metal.

I know all about the sticky gummy mess oils like that can leave behind if they are left unattended after being soaked in the stuff. I also know that they are a PITA to get out of a stock once they are allowed to soak in. Dad and a buddy of his were gunsmiths for years, doing everything from custom builds to common repairs, and I worked in a gun shop all through college for a few extra dollars, and believe me, I have seen just about everything. In the late 80's and early 90's I would get $40 bucks a piece to field strip a gun and clean it, something that the owner should have been doing all along. I saw guns that were so gunked up I had to strip the wood off and boil them like a lobster just to be able to get them apart to clean the gunk out of them, and the owners wondered why they wouldn't feed or function.

WD-40 is just like anything else, it works well when used properly, but in a day and age where excess seems to be the norm I can understand exactly where you are coming from by not recommending its use on guns. Many people swear by RemOil with Teflon. I have had too many bad experiences with it in the past so I don't want it anywhere near my guns, especially the bore. There is nothing worse that after running a couple dry patches down your bore, than having to shoot you rifle a half dozen times to get the Teflon out of the bore and shooting back to the point of aim. Teflon and rifle bores do not go well together in my experience, so I went back to Hoppe's, G96, and Balistol for all of my internal cleaning, and the WD-40 is used for just that water displacement on the muzzleloader barrel after it's hot bath.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Guy La Pourque]

I am like you Boerrancher. When my guns are put up for the day they are sparkling clean. I only shoot black powder and I swear that crud will eat metal if left for any longer than absolutely necessary. I have had some very minor rust with mine once or twice and each time it occured within 48 hours of shooting. From here on out the minute I get home I clean it and no bones about it.

[targetfreak]

Besides all the other comments in this thread, for which I neither agree nor disagree, I am a staunch opponent of WD40. It is, in simple terms, ****. If you want to displace water, use alcohol. If you want to preserve, use a grease or real oil, or use one of the "bore butters", similar to Crisco. But stop using WD40! I am amazed at the number of people who have fallen for the makers of that stuff's ridiculous and completely unsubstantiated claims for being able to preserve anything. The stuff evaporates. Read it again: it evaporates, along with ANY ability to preserve anything. The ONLY time it doesn't evaporate is when it gets into a cartridge case and destroys the powder's ability to ignite, as documented almost thirty years ago by "The American Rifleman". The simplest route toward goodness with firearms and other fine mechanicals is to banish the very name (Wd40) from your mind. To repeat: it is ****!
Sorry for the rant, but this is the time when the straw broke the camel's back.

[targetfreak]

Since the forum elected to blank out my rather soft characterization of the stuff, simply insert the word "awful" to the nth degree. I was an engineer for more than thirty years and I know what I am talking about.

[Mooseman]

Interesting Comments on WD-40 I find pretty funny.
WD-40 was developed to stop corrosion on Ballistic Missiles in Underground launch facilities and it worked fine and met all Govt Specs. It stopped the corrosion.
I prefer the Light oil film it leaves to some of the thicker lube/ storage lubes on the market .
For my guns and muzzleloaders it works for me just fine.
Your mileage may vary...

[Boerrancher]

I have to agree with Mooseman, your mileage my vary... I have had good luck with WD-40 over the years, long before there was bore butter and all the other fancy marketed stuff with my black powder guns. I have never had black powder gun get any rust in it or on it, I can't say the same about some of my other guns I have used "gun oils" on. I left a cap and ball revolver in a damp basement for years not knowing it was down there. It hadn't been of the box since at least 1992, when I shot it last, cleaned it with hot water and WD-40. It went through several moves then got stuck in the basement somewhere around 2002. I found it when I was cleaning out the unfinished basement when I was discharged from the Army in late 2007. I was sure the gun would be ruined. When I opened the box it was just as clean and nice as the day I cleaned it and put it away.

On the flip side of the coin, I wiped off my custom 6mm-06 with the gun oil that come with one of my otis cleaning kits, and stood it in the corner of my bedroom closet. Less than 6 months later I pulled it out to do some long range target shooting and it had a bit of surface rust on it. Needless to say, I was not happy. From that point on it was still WD40 on my black powder guns and G96 on my other guns, and G96 smells a lot like WD40.

Best wishes,

Joe

[mud lake]

I like bore butter for black powder guns, seasons the tubes just as advertised. For protection of steel that might not get out and about very often (think Safe Queens) nothing protects like a thin film of RIG. Dont forget under the wood, both long guns and handguns. We all have our favorite lubricants and I am amazed at the variety on the market - all claiming to be superior to their competition. Mooseman is certainly correct - "Your mileage may vary"!!

[Boerrancher]

I think that a great deal of oils and such and how well they work in many cases is region dependent. Very arid regions require little to no oils to protect from all forms of corrosion. The more humid the environment the more corrosion protection you need. I have noticed over the years that more and more gun stuff is kind of like fishing lures, there are two types those that catch fish and those that catch fisherman. If you live within 75 miles of the coast all bets are off. I was down on the gulf coast for a week many years ago with a stainless Ruger GP100, and I noticed it start to develop discolored places on the frame. I don't know how you fellas near the coast manage to keep your guns slick and rust free with all the salt in the air.

Best wishes,

Joe

[44man]

Please don't use WD-40 on guns. I know it seems to work great for it's intended water displacement but it leaves a sticky gummy mess when it dries out. I get guns in quite often that don't work because someone cleaned with WD-40 or PB-blaster or 80 or some of the other "penetrating oils". Most are made from kerosine with a few additives and there is no real protection for the metal.
I was going to step in but you saved the day, THANK YOU! :bigsmyl2:
NEVER use WD-40 on a gun. NEVER use it to prevent rust, it promotes rust.
I get many rifles from farmers that use WD-40 on farm equipment so they put it on guns. It will lock a firing pin up so bad the gun will quit. NOTHING will dissolve the stuff and it must be mechanically removed.
Want to have fun, spray it in all of your locks.

[o6Patient]

I have developed a fondness for wd 40 over the years as a cleaner & solvent IE: cleaning aluminum window tracks etc. after initially thinking it was nearly worthless as a penetrant /preservative.
About 25 years ago in one of the gun magazines there was a big write up touting the virtues of of WD for semi autos
and I had a friend at the time who used it on his model 100 religiously after reading the article w/ no complaints.
At the time at work we had stopped using in on equipment exposed to weather as it seemed to promote rust.
We went to using a lithium base cable lube and it lubed and preserved exponentially better.
I think WD works well as a cleaner and to displace moisture and it does free up and lube things adequate on the spot
much as chlorine bleach is a very good lube but will not prevent rust obviously in fact I would suspect it would promote rust
exposed to the elements much as I've seen wd do. So I think IMHO you can use wd to great advantage but then wipe good and preserve with some kind of oil/wax/grease- be it synthetic or petroleum based. I have found semi auttos like rems 74's
they need to be quite dry or they will jam, so wd does work good for them but realize it won't preserve for any length of time especially when exposed to the elements.

[johnson1942]

i like a lot of hunters that commented here leave a load of real black in three diff guns during hunting season. they are left in perfectly clean bores. the catch is i live in a semidesert at 4000 feet elev. most of you dont. if i lived where most of you lived i would be alot more careful on cleaning my guns and what i do with them. i never have any problems with rust . i found pyrodox very corosive and black less so. for a cleaning solution i use 1/3 balistol 1/3 prestone anti freeze and 1/3 water. put it in a old spray bottle and it works just fine. i never take my barrels out of a stock because they just have to settle in again. i have seen two 1840s muzzle loaders that were local and well cared for all those years. wood and steel was in very good shape. again 4000 ft elev. and low air moisture. i probably couldnt keep moss from behind my ears if i lived where some of you gentelmen live. every thing is relative. you can recognize the people from this part of the country when they go elsewhere to visit. they are always looking at the clouds. i almost forget what the smell of rain is like. the air is sure clean though. have fun johnson 1942

[FLINTNFIRE]

Well I live in the west side of washington state where all it seems to do at times is rain , and wd-40 works for me and has for a long time , your mileage may vary , and if so use whatever you wish , as for the leaving a load in the barrel after having firing , I would rather shoot and clean and reload , I to would rather not have any chance of rust starting , but to each their own.

[Hanshi]

We need to let this myth die and bury it. Black powder IS NOT hygroscopic! Black powder FOWLING IS. I've left guns loaded with powder and ball for months with no problems whatsoever. I currently have 4 flintlocks loaded with powder and prb along with a pistol. All will remain loaded until after the end of the hunting season unless I take game with one or more of them. Once fired I clean and oil them for short term storage - I shoot all of them at the range.

[johnson1942]

hanshi: thanks for that claification and reply.

[bob208]

since we are not at war and there is no shortage of black powder. i would shoot the load out. clean the gun. start the next week with a freash load. i use w-d40 in my muzzleloaders and have been for 25 year never have i had a gun rust.

[fouronesix]

It is my understanding that black powder is very hygroscopic. BUT, that doesn't mean it is very corrosive in the un-burned state. Matter of fact, black powder is very stable no matter the humidity or relative water it absorbs or loses over time- thus it has a very long shelf life. However, when it is burned things change and the fouling is not only very hygroscopic but also corrosive.

[rodwha]

"I have left loads in a clean gun for months at a time with no ill effect. I sure wouldn't load it after firing and leave it for any length of time though. Maybe a weekend hunt but longer. It just ain't that much trouble to clean it."

As I just received a .50 cal rifle for Christmas I'm now thinking more about this stuff.

I live in central Texas where it is uber humid for most of the year, but winter would't be so bad. Were I to take a shot and miss I'd be likely to reload in the field, which would leave me with a dirty barrel. Would you carry with you the stuff needed to clean your barrel while out n about?

I carry a small water bottle, alcohol, etc. in my shooting box to the range when I've shot my Old Army just in case, but I don't see myself carrying all of that additional stuff afield. Being that it could stay loaded for an unknown amount of time in an unknown humidity (we can hog or exotic hunt year round) level it seems I ought to consider a backpack with this sort of stuff. It's unlikely, after a shot, that I'd get another shot before I could give it a quick cleaning and reload...

[Underclocked]

I use WD40 as part of my cleaning process and have for years. No issues whatsoever unless you get it on primers or scope lenses. I also let the WD drip out, blow what I can out with pressurized air, then lube the bore and action with Breakfree CLP.

[Boerrancher]

"I have left loads in a clean gun for months at a time with no ill effect. I sure wouldn't load it after firing and leave it for any length of time though. Maybe a weekend hunt but longer. It just ain't that much trouble to clean it."

As I just received a .50 cal rifle for Christmas I'm now thinking more about this stuff.

I live in central Texas where it is uber humid for most of the year, but winter would't be so bad. Were I to take a shot and miss I'd be likely to reload in the field, which would leave me with a dirty barrel. Would you carry with you the stuff needed to clean your barrel while out n about?

I carry a small water bottle, alcohol, etc. in my shooting box to the range when I've shot my Old Army just in case, but I don't see myself carrying all of that additional stuff afield. Being that it could stay loaded for an unknown amount of time in an unknown humidity (we can hog or exotic hunt year round) level it seems I ought to consider a backpack with this sort of stuff. It's unlikely, after a shot, that I'd get another shot before I could give it a quick cleaning and reload...

I don't carry a bunch of cleaning stuff with me when I am out and about. I carry a few extra cleaning patches in the bottom of my hunting pouch, just in case I do end up having to swab the bore. After the hunt, I discharge the rifle and clean it. If I am away from home, I keep a cleaning kit in my camping gear. If you let a fired ML set for more than about 12 hours in a humid environment, like MO in the summer time, even if it is still loaded, you risk the chance that it will not go bang the next time you pull the trigger.

Most professional guides on ML hunts will make you discharge and clean your gun at the end of every day. I don't take it that far, because I load a grease patch for my first load. With a grease patch it can sit for years with no problems, as long as the nipple or touch hole is good and clean. On the flip side once the gun is fired all bets are off after it sets for 12 or more hours. There is one exception to this and that is if you live and hunt in the desert where there is no humidity. Being you live in Texas, once you fire it at the end of the day you need to clean it and start the next day with a clean gun.

Best wishes,

Joe

[longbow]

I tend to agree that WD40 is not the best preservative around but it does displace water, it does act as a solvent and it does act as a penetrant, so I use it to displace water after washing/rinsing my muzzleloader then use a mix of WD40 and gun oil or 3 in 1 (or other thin oil) on a patch then lube the bore and wipe down the outside of the metal work. This seems to penetrate and coat leaving light oily film which does not varnish... for me.

It works for me and as Mooseman said YMMV.

Longbow

[John Taylor]

, as WD40 does quickly evaporate over a few days.
Joe

WD40 dries out and leave a sticky goo behind. If you are using it in a barrel, run several dry patches to try and get it all out. I personally believe there is no place for WD40 or PB blaster in guns. I get guns in quite often that do not work because of the goo from these so called penetrating oils. There are better products for muzzle loaders, use them.

[johnson1942]

john taylor, you sound like you have seen alot of guns in your day so i am going to accept what you say as true from experience. you have convinced me. i stopped useing wd40 years ago when i dont remember who intrduced me to a mixture of 1/3 ballistol, 1/3 prestone anti freeze and 1/3 water or any thing close to it. cleans barrels good, still like to follow up the cleaning with thompson bore butter then wipe that out with dry patches so only a slight film remains, but again i live in a very high and dry climate.

[Boerrancher]

WD40 dries out and leave a sticky goo behind. If you are using it in a barrel, run several dry patches to try and get it all out.

When I store a ML I use 3 in 1 oil to wipe it down inside and out. After the initial squirt down the bore to push out all of the water, it is nothing but patches and then paper towels until there is no more WD40 odor. Since I use the trade gun most often it never gets an oil patch or anything down the bore. I keep it clean and dry, or clean and loaded with an oil based patch lube or some grease in the shot. I keep the outside wiped down with 3 in 1.

As to all the fancy cr** er.. stuff that is sold to "clean, and preserve ML's", most of it is nothing more than a gimmick, just like all of the high dollar hunting stuff that is out there so you can kill a deer, and all of the fancy fishing lures that are made to catch fishermen, yet may or may not catch fish. I believe in the K.I.S.S. principle. I have been shooting black powder guns for over 30 years, and have never had one get rusty, or even fail to fire because of my cleaning methods. I do however see a good number of guys at the range and rendezvous who use all of the fancy stuff all the time, and have all kinds of issues with their guns.

I understand everyone is trying to be helpful, but I can clean a gun in less than 10 min with my methods, and as I stated have never had any rust or failures to fire with my ways, and it is hard to go against 30 years of experience and success. Also I am a cheap bastard who believes my money is much better spent on hardware, and components, than on gimmicks, that may or may not work.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Hanshi]

It is my understanding that black powder is very hygroscopic. BUT, that doesn't mean it is very corrosive in the un-burned state. Matter of fact, black powder is very stable no matter the humidity or relative water it absorbs or loses over time- thus it has a very long shelf life. However, when it is burned things change and the fouling is not only very hygroscopic but also corrosive.



Be assured that Black powder IS NOT hygroscopic (it can, of course, get wet from liquid water) and is NOT corrosive; that's why it is stable. Black powder fouling is NOT corrosive to any great degree but IS extremely hygroscopic. It is the water/moisture that causes rust and not the bp or fouling, itself. This is why guns can go a long time when used in dry climates (the Southwest for example) without cleaning and NO rusting. This applies, of course, to the quality powders available to us in the US. Home made powders carry no such guarantee though they can be of high quality, themselves.

[cptuap]

WD 40 has worked well enough for me other than it seems to dull case colors over time. On case colors and now on all my guns I've turned to TM products. Charlie