Would someone please hold the Newby's hand

[milkman]

I though I has this cast boolit thing all figured out. My 45-70 didn't like the 340 grain bullet, so I got a 500g mold, tried a couple of powders and some homemade lube and got 10 shots into one 2"hole at 100yd, with no barrel leading. This stuff is almost too easy!!

Then I got a 336 marlin in .35 Rem with microgrove rifling and though I would whip up a plinking load for the grandson. I bought 158 g swc swedged, cast and swedged dry lube bullets and found that the all but the swedged with commercial lube leaded the bore. I wasn't real sure about the groups because it had iron sights and my almost 60 year old eyes did good to even hit the target.

I mounted a scope on it, got a lee 158g swc tumble lube mold, lubed with liquid alox, loaded up unsized, air cooled WW, with
9g Unique - 1400 fps
10g Unique - 1490 fps
26g 4198 - vel all over the place 1734 to 1902
terrible leading and 3" groups at 30 yds from all three.
I tried finger smearing lube over the alox with the same results. I slugged the barrel and got .357 and the bullets drop at .360 with WW. 180 jhp group 1/2" at 30yd. Used copper cleaner and brushed lead for hours.

I'm having trouble finding data for that small bullet in the .35, and those are the only powders I have on hand that were listed, but IMHO as a newbie, the powder shouldn't be the decisive factor on leading at those velocities. Do I have the wrong bullet design (tumble lube), microgroove rifling won't handle cast? Range time is really limited so I really would appreciate a gentle nudge, or even a violent shove in the right direction.
Terrel

[buck1]

Heres my .02...
Microgroves can be kinda picky (my 444 can be any way). I bet you need a harder bullet to hold the light rifleing. You might try water droping the boolits.This will make them much harder.

And yes powder can be a big factor in leading. Its not the speed but the pressure that will cause leading. More so on a softer plainbase boolit.
I dont use the Lee TL , so I cant comment from my own shooting, but from what I hear you may try lubing them twice.
I'm no expert but this is what I would try next.
I am sure others here will be able to shine more light on this.........Buck

PS...WELCOME TO THE BOARD!!!!!

[Junior1942]

I mounted a scope on it, got a lee 158g swc tumble lube mold, lubed with liquid alox, loaded up unsized, air cooled WW, with
9g Unique - 1400 fps
10g Unique - 1490 fps
26g 4198 - vel all over the place 1734 to 1902
terrible leading and 3" groups at 30 yds from all three.You should have had no leading with the 1400 fps load and the 1490 fps load if the TL bullets had plenty of Lee Liquid Alox Lube AND were ww alloy. However, the 1734 fps to 1902 fps load would have probably leaded like crazy with a TL bullet in any alloy and with any lube.

With a plain base, i.e., non-gas checked bullet, of any design and ww alloy and any lube, figure 1600 fps as max without barrel leading.

With a gas checked ww alloy bullet and good lube, figure 1850 fps max for shooting all day long without barrel leading.

[Leftoverdj]

Here's some data and shooting results for you http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Imho, you are way hot for what you are trying to do. I can get plain base bullets to shoot in microgroove barrels up to 1100, maybe 1200 fps. Not past that. It ain't a lube issue because I have wrung that possibility out. GCs make the problem go away so my money is on flame cutting.

Iffen I were you, I would run a test series in half grain increments from 6 to 8 grains of Unique with a half grain tuft of dacron filling the case. Somewhere in there, you should find at least 50 yard beer can accuracy.

[milkman]

thanks for the quick replys and the good info. I will try double lubing and dropping the powder charge and see what happens.

[drinks]

I am using tl liquid alox and / or LBT blue in .243 to .45-70, including .35Whelen, I get 2300+fps in .243 , .308 and .35 Whelen with water dropped bullets and no leading, using ww's with 1% added Tin and 1 oz. chilled shot per 5 lb alloy.
I also get 2300+ fps with 7.5 SR and 7.62x 54R loads and 2000fps with a 200gr cg in .303 Savage and .30-30.
Water drop with the right alloy or heat treat , again with the right alloy and the most efective lubes and most anything under 2400 fps is possible with little or no leading.

[Buckshot]

............It's not a MG barrel but in a 35 Rem built on a small ring Mauser (16" twist) 7.0grs of W231 and a 148gr WC shoot like crazy. Feed in is a bit iffy at times, but I can live with that. Your MG is prolly gonna want a hard fat slug to do it's best.

Good on ya for getting the grandson involved, and welcome to the board.

.............Buckshot

[milkman]

I'm planning to retire in a few years and it looks like I found the perfect hobby to keep myself busy and entertained. There are all kinds of things to try before I give up. I have been a little aftaid of waterdropping, but will try it. I saw a pot empty itself a few years ago and I was impressed with the mixture of hot lead and water. Would dropping on a wet towel quench quickly enough?

On another subject I have about 40 lbs of parafin that I would like to share with someone. Anyone in the central Arkansas area?

[45 2.1]

I'm planning to retire in a few years and it looks like I found the perfect hobby to keep myself busy and entertained. There are all kinds of things to try before I give up. I have been a little aftaid of waterdropping, but will try it. I saw a pot empty itself a few years ago and I was impressed with the mixture of hot lead and water. Would dropping on a wet towel quench quickly enough?

On another subject I have about 40 lbs of parafin that I would like to share with someone. Anyone in the central Arkansas area?

Milkman-
The towel probably isn't enough. I would recommend a 2 gallon ice cream bullet with an old towel in the bottom filled within 2" of top with water. Place it about behind you so you have to turn to use it. Allot safer that way.
PM sent on parafin.

[sundog]

Milkman, Felix is in Ft Smith and I'm east of Tulsa, not that far. He and I get together once in a while. I also have a MG 336 in 35 Rem. I shoot the RCBS 200 FN pretty stiff and get no leading. 3031 and some of the 844 and equivalent surp powders do good. Have you looked at the data on castpics? All that data was developed by fellers on this board (all came over from the old Shooters.com).

http://www.castpics.net/RandD/load_data/load_data.htm

Although I haven't tried it, I'm thinking that AA9/H108/WC820 and a 158 gr slug might work okay. I've not tried any plain base boolits in the 35 Rem MG so I have no experience that I can relate, but the GC 200 work just dandy! Have you looked at the Accurate Powder data? They have a number of cast loads listed in their manual and on their web site. Can't say that I need any parafin as I have 30 plus pounds my own self.

About water dropping -- not really any problem. When I do, I drop mine in a 3# coffee can about 3/4 full of cold water, set of to one side about 3 feet away. Never had a problem. Pot is on the right, sprue cut area in front, and water drop on the left (on a stool just lower than the table). Just stand there and swing back and forth. Never saw a need for a towel/sponge/??? in the water drop. They go right into the cold water and that's it. No deformation or anything. Experiment a little. btw, the mould is so hot that any splash on it immediately sizzles off. Another thing. If yer gonna water drop, make sure the mould releases easy as it will get the boolits into the water faster, i.e., less colling before quenching.

About the Marlin 336CS. When I got mine the previous owner got rid of it because, "It kicks too damn hard." My gain, but he was absolutely correct. The problem? Comb of the stock was WAY too high in the front and pounded the cheek bone to smithereens. Solution? A couple hours with a rasp, sand paper, and some Tru-Oil. No more "kicks too damn hard" problem.

I guess that's about all that I know.... sundog

[Willbird]

Some folks have shared that they use styro peanuts floating on top of their quench water to avoid splashing. Myself I have my quench bucket 24-30 inches lower than my pot and water has never came even close to the pot.

In my younger and more foolish days I dropped water in a lead pot to see what happened, and what ahppened was...nothing. Bulk melting scrap outside I did find that raindrops have enough velocity to cause mischief.

Having been on fire once I have a great respect for going the extra mile to be safe in all things involving heat and flames.

That said I think most lead pot explosions involving water also involve something that carries the water below the surface of the melt, I do not mean by this that one should not be carefull, but it is of help to know what causes the most danger if one is to avoid it at all costs.

Damp or wet metal added to the already molten pot to me seems the thing to keep vigilant about, pre heating ingots above 212 degrees is the best way I know to avoid that.

Bill

Bill

[sundog]

Willbird, one of the big runs I did in the MOAS did quite the same thing. Damp WWs added to already liquid mix can be 'lively'. I've also had range scrap which appeared dry, hide moisture in cavities,like under pieces of broken jackets. On the surface, not much of a problem. It's when it goes under and turns to steam immediately that the real excitement begins. Another thought. The damp WW incident above was kinda like the piece of potato on a wire deal to flux a mix. Aggitating a run of alloy can sure help get all the junk to the surface for skimming. Problem is how to control aggitation to keep it from being explosion.

I had a bunch of ingots that had been dumped on the grass to cool. Many had little pieces of grass imbedded and when they were added to the pot there was a livley bubbling effect that did help the process of getting junk to the surface. All the more reason to err on the side of safety, especially eye protection. sundog

[wills]

I'm planning to retire in a few years and it looks like I found the perfect hobby to keep myself busy and entertained. There are all kinds of things to try before I give up. I have been a little aftaid of waterdropping, but will try it. I saw a pot empty itself a few years ago and I was impressed with the mixture of hot lead and water. Would dropping on a wet towel quench quickly enough?

On another subject I have about 40 lbs of parafin that I would like to share with someone. Anyone in the central Arkansas area?

It's when the water gets below the surface of the lead you have a problem

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=15884#post15884

[454PB]

I used to cast for two Marlins.....a .444 and a 45/70. Neither would shoot plain base bullets accurately, both shot 2" to 3" groups at 100 yards with gas checked bullets.

I recently acquired a 336 in 35 Remington, but haven't yet fired any cast bullets through it. I'm betting it will be the same.

[Scrounger]

I used to cast for two Marlins.....a .444 and a 45/70. Neither would shoot plain base bullets accurately, both shot 2" to 3" groups at 100 yards with gas checked bullets.

I recently acquired a 336 in 35 Remington, but haven't yet fired any cast bullets through it. I'm betting it will be the same.


What's wrong with 2 to 3 inches at a hundred yards? I'd settle for that, and gladly, with those big bullets....

[drinks]

The only 158gr lead bullet load I can find is from Lee's manual, 28gr Reloder 7, 2200fps, this would have to be a gas check to handle that speed.
I would think most .357 Maximum loads would be ok, as well.
.357 dia. gas check designs are not very common, but there must be some around.
I put gas checks on anything that does not have one, but I have a minilathe and it is a quick job, then I make a sizer die the needed size to seat the checks,use plenty of lube and have no leading problems.

[454PB]

Scrounger, what I was trying to say was that after I began using gas checked bullets, the guns would shoot. Plain based bullets shot 10" groups on a good day.

[milkman]

You guys got more smarts than a peach tree switch. I water dropped and double lubed and dropped the powder charge from 10 to 6 grains of unique and the problems just went away. Thanks again to all.