"oversize" bullet problem

[roysha]

I am in the process of building a .358 Norma for nostalgia reasons more than anything else. I purchased a barrel and slugged it. The groove depth is .3575" and the bore diameter is .3498".

Earlier I purchased a 3 cavity NOE mold patterned after the Lyman 358009 from a member here. The mold was brand new. This was before the latest group buy, run by Blammer. Otherwise identical.

I cast a batch of bullets using a rather hard alloy. BEAUTIFUL bullets and the mold worked like all my other NOE molds. Flawlessly!

Now for the problem. I had not sized any bullets because I wanted to size to the barrel dimensions so really was unaware of the bullet dimensions until after I had slugged the barrel and was getting ready to size and lube. It seems the nose is .352 +/- a couple of tenths depending on where I mic the nose, up and down and/or around. This is .002+ greater than bore size. The bullet will not even begin to enter the barrel. Measured the driving bands and they measure .362 +/- a couple of tenths, again depending on where I measure. This is an average of a grab sample of 10 bullets.

I don't mind sizing a couple of thou but 4+ is a bit much. If I have to go that way I will definitely be making some size dies for my old SAS swage press so I can get the OD to where I need it. My old 45 would stop dead in it's tracks trying that much on that big of a bullet. I guess I could even live with that but what do I do about the nose. I can, of course, open the throat large and long enough to accept the nose, but wonder if this is indeed a viable option.

Suggestions please.

[williamwaco]

What do you mean by the "nose"

You can't size the bullet in front of the driving bands unless you spend more on equipment than you did on the rifle?

As for the driving bands at .362 I would size them to .359 and they should be fine.

I routinely size bullets .004 to .005 and they will shoot around MOA from a bench. You didn't build a .358 Norma Mag for bench rest shooting. These bullets should be very adequate for hunting.

Next and in my opinion most important of all: Lose that "rather hard alloy".
You will get smaller bullets, probably better accuracy, and no decrease in terminal performance ( unless you are doing head shots on elephants.)

[waksupi]

First thing I would do, is pour a chamber casting. Some rifle barrels get chambered, but not throated.

[stubshaft]

I see what your getting at. Like Ric said either pour a chamber cast or make an impact slug of the throat area. You are basing your assumptions that the nose will not enter the barrel due to the difference in diameter between to nose of the slug and the bore diameter of the lead slug you made.

[Duckdog]

You will have no issues sizing .004 off of a lead bullet with a push through Lee sizer. I've done it before and it's not a big deal.

[runfiverun]

if you just tried to push one in the muzzle it probably didn't fit.
size a case neck and seat the sized boolit how you want it, then chamber it.
you'll know if it will work or not.
you might need to knock the boolit from the bbl.

if you still need a slightly smaller boolit then you need more lead in your alloy and less tin/antimony.

[MT Chambers]

It's fairly easy to size the bore riding portion only, using a Lyman or Rcbs sizer and a flat top punch, size nose first, and only size the front(boreriding) portion.

[Piedmont]

I agree to use softer alloy. It will cast a smidge smaller and more important will engrave more easily on that nose when chambering. You may not have had the mould closed all the way too, perhaps a bit of lead got on the block faces. Happens all the time.

I wouldn't be sizing .358" which you seem to imply by your four thousandths sizing comments. When you start to shoot that .358 Norma the first place it will start to wear is the throat and leade. Just exactly where your chambering problems will be.

After you play around with it a while, if you are still not satisfied, I think you could sell this mould very easily for what you paid. Explain everything about the measurements from a designated alloy and guarantee it to cast as you say (dimensionally). That bullet will fit someones rifle perfectly.

One other point. When you go softer you may need to nose first size to not bump up the nose.

[leftiye]

Your main problem is that your barrel has correct dimensions, and NOE molds are often made somewhat oversized for all of those other barrels that are oversized or worn. Get a different mold. Though right now lyman 358008s are going to cost pretty stiff. Maybe Mountain molds, a better design isn't hard to imagine.

[roysha]

"in the process of building" means just that. I purchased .358 blank and will be fitting it to a Parker Hale 1200 action. This is my 5th 358 Norma but the first that I have shot, or plan to shoot, lead bullets in. I have the reamer, gauges and throater.

If you know what the 358009 looks like the "nose" diameter is rather self explanatory.

If the mold was not fully closed there would be at least a bit of out of round measurable or at worst a fin on the side of the bullet. Not so. I have enough experience to suspect something is amiss if those conditions were to occur.

I want to use this alloy and unless something absolutely dictates otherwise I will stick with it. If the gain from using a softer alloy is only a "smidge", which is what I have experienced in the past with other bullets, then I just as well work with what I have.

The bullet will not enter the barrel, either end, with out being tapped in with a hammer. This is just the nose. Once the driving bands reach the barrel the bullet starts to upset quite badly where it is being hit with the hammer and, for all practical purposes, won't go in any further.

I had indeed intended to size .001" over the slugged dimension as a starting point. That still leaves a lot of sizing.

Given NOE's precise manufacturing methods, I doubt there would be enough difference from mold to mold to warrant the musical mold game. Besides, I have never made a penny on any transaction regarding gun stuff in my life and I really can't afford to arbitrairly buy molds in the hope something will accidently work.

It sees most of you have no problem with sizing that much so at his point it looks like I will size the bullets in my SAS press. I have an adapter made for the Lyman dies so it's no big thing. My Lyman dies have been "opened" up .0005" at a time from .357" to .359" (5 dies total) so I suspect I may get something to work.

I believe I will throat the barrel to accept the long bullet nose but have to decide whether to throat to groove diameter or open it just enough to clear the bullet nose. If I do the latter then a new reamer will be needed. Since I a "tool junkie", that is not an issue. Unfortunately, throating that much will make an extremely long throat should the cast bullet usage not work out to my satisfaction and I have to go back to jacketed bullets. Oh well, I guess I can cut it off and rechamber. Simple enough.