Win231/Hodgdon HP-38

[joeatact]

Is Win231/Hodgdon HP-38 the same Powder?

[44man]

No, it is a tad slower and cleaner. A great powder. Loads will be close.

[elk hunter]

Yes they are the same powder.

[btroj]

I have read that they are different lotsof the same powder. I treat them as identical.

[beagle]

Always treat diferent powder numbers as different powders and you'll never get in trouble..........

Yes, they are very close in burning characteristics and very well may be the same but do not trust for gospel what you read on the internet when it comes to reloading or you'll be in trouble.

I don't even trust powders of the same numbers of different lots. At one time, I had AA5 on the bench that was labeled as being made in three countries. How can you trust consistency when a product supposedly the same is made in three different countries.

Just my policy and so far, it's worked for me./beagle

[44man]

They are like H110 and 296, different packaging from specified burn rates.
WW is mostly a little slower and is more then just lot number slower. Might be why they are cleaner burning too. I see a difference between H110 and 296 both in accuracy between guns and carbon.
Each time they make a batch of powder, it is tested and sent to a certain canister brand. Any out too far go to factories that have test equipment so they can adjust loads.

[felix]

No different in the medical trade. Some drugs will NEVER go generic because of their critical measurements for specific application(s). Generic drugs are released as such when the active component is legally within plus or minus 5 percent of the "branded target". Actually, there are some chemicals which are sold only through the drug chain for patent protection. ... felix

[btroj]

Actually Felix, all drugs have a "range" within which the active ingredient t must be maintained. Even the brand name drugs can vary up to 5 or 10 percent from lot to lot. The amount of variation allowed depends upon the drug. Generic drugs go the bio equivalence testing where groups of people are given either the name brand or generic and blood tests are used to show that the rate and amount of release are within specs.

I view hp38/win 231 as being different lots of the same powder. When changing from one to another I follow the normal rules for using a new lot- I work up to a new load if anywhere near max. Since I am not using either of these powders in any loads anywhere near max pressure I don't worry about that.

[blikseme300]

Actually Felix, all drugs have a "range" within which the active ingredient t must be maintained. Even the brand name drugs can vary up to 5 or 10 percent from lot to lot. The amount of variation allowed depends upon the drug. Generic drugs go the bio equivalence testing where groups of people are given either the name brand or generic and blood tests are used to show that the rate and amount of release are within specs.

I view hp38/win 231 as being different lots of the same powder. When changing from one to another I follow the normal rules for using a new lot- I work up to a new load if anywhere near max. Since I am not using either of these powders in any loads anywhere near max pressure I don't worry about that.

I added the emphasis above. Different lots of the same powder can and do often vary. I use HP38 for most of my pistols and I purchase the 8lb containers to minimize the need to re-tune because of lot numbers.

I have never used 231 so cannot comment on the sameness between these 2.

Bliksem

[Rocky Raab]

Here's the truth:

HP38 = W231

H110 = W296

HS6 = W540

HS7 = W571

H414 = W760

This info directly from Chris Hodgdon, who damn well ought to know. BTW, to forestall somebody saying it, H335 is NOT W748.

[geargnasher]

Thank you, Rocky. Wiljen had posted similar recently in the powder forum.

Gear

[DGV]

I thought drugs go generic when the patent expires?

[btroj]

That Rocky, is what I remember seeing. Thanks for that. Not difficult to beleive one powder is put into 2 different bottles.

As for generic drugs, once the patent expires other companies may make a generic. Whether they do or not is an economic decision. There tend to be lotsof legal battles too. Many generics are in fact "clones" made in the exact same factory by the same company. We frequently get bottles of generic drugs that actually contain the name brand product. It is all about business and drugs are a huge business.

[geargnasher]

I bought a bottle of "dollar brand" dishwashing detergent one time at a convenience store that looked just like lemon Joy and was in an identical bottle. When I got home I compared it, and sure enough, in the very fine print on the back it was made by the same company. I've heard a lot about name-brand manufacturers sometimes marketing their product in a generic line. It seems that once you're in production, selling a percentage of the product via a discounted brand still brings profits.

Three things to NEVER buy generic versions of: Windex, Q-tips, and Ohio Blue Tip matches.

Gear

[btroj]

Agree on the Windex and Q-tips, don't use enough matches to be able to say.

[SlippShodd]

I used house brand swabs for many years and didn't think much about the fact that they didn't hold up well. Then I bought a box of the real McCoys again and will never try to save that half a buck again.
Generic glass cleaner leaves behind its blue dye on everything it touches. Comes off again, but it's obviously overloaded with tint to cover its lack of active ingredients. Foaming aerosol window cleaner works way better than Windex anyway. (as I'm typing this, My Big Fat Greek Wedding is on the tube wherein they fix all manner of ills with Windex; everything but dirty windows)
And to stay on topic, I was unconvinced about HP38/231 compatibility until they started listing the identical load on the label of HP38 that we'd been using as standard major factor load with 200 gr SWCs in USPSA/IPSC since back before Klinton screwed up cigar smoking. I haven't changed the .45 ACP charge bar for my Dillon since the '80s. And the big H is usually $2-3 less per pound.

mike

[Kraschenbirn]

Several years ago, a friend owned/operated one of the largest (in terms of sales volume) commercial boolit-casting shops in the country and, as a side-line, provided custom reloads to several law-enforcement agencies for practice/training purposes. He also had a contract with W-W to provide cast boolits for their cowboy action factory loads and, as part of the deal, he received VERY favorable discounts on W-W powder/primers for his reloading operations. On several occasions, he received kegs from W-W with W231 labels pasted over the the original Hodgden (HP38) stickers. When he asked his W-W contact, he was told: "It all comes from the same plant and, sometimes, they ship us a few kegs from one of Hodgden's production runs to fill out an order."

Bill

[felix]

Anybody check the lot number on each "brand"? Bet the warehouse guy was consciously enough to send the same stuff. ... felix

[Kraschenbirn]

Anybody check the lot number on each "brand"? Bet the warehouse guy was consciously enough to send the same stuff. ... felix

Good question. Next time I see CJ I'll ask him but, as his stuff was coming directly from W-Ws ammunition plant at Alton, IL, I wouldn't bet on it.

Bill

[MikeS]

Not quite on topic, but I have 2 pounds of SR4759, one made by Hodgdon (IMR) and one made by Dupont. They even look different, while the kernel shape is the same, the Dupont made powder is shiny, the newer stuff is dull (matt finish). I suppose as long as I'm not using max loads I can treat them the same.

[btroj]

Long as ou are well below max pressure I would say ou can use them as the same. Accuracy may require otherwise but safety is my most important concern.

[44man]

Not quite on topic, but I have 2 pounds of SR4759, one made by Hodgdon (IMR) and one made by Dupont. They even look different, while the kernel shape is the same, the Dupont made powder is shiny, the newer stuff is dull (matt finish). I suppose as long as I'm not using max loads I can treat them the same.
I also have both and they shoot the same. Both are also clean, cases do not even need cleaned and bores are clean.

[Casper29]

If not the same, every referance manual treats them the same as far as load data is concerned.

[44man]

If not the same, every referance manual treats them the same as far as load data is concerned.
My old books show a tiny difference, about what a lot change does. Some pressures with the same loads were 200 CUP different.
Today, Hodgdon might just use different cans.