Can't get good boolits

[heavyd]

I just got through with a casting session on a Pro Melt I just purchased used. It is approximately 15 years old. I am casting 9mm lyman 147 rn fp 4 cavity. My boolits almost always come out wrinkled and frosted. Always frosted and %80 wrinkled. I cast at all temps on my furnace, from 700 to 850. Same result, frosted and wrinkled bullets across the board. I also let the mold get hot and cold to see if it was the mold temp. Same result no matter what. What am I doing wrong?

Am I correct about the following?:
- Frosted boolits = alloy or mold too hot
- Wrinkled boolits - mold too cold

The spout generally froze when I put the temp dial on 700. It seems that the temp dial shows 75 to 100 degrees lower than my actual thermometer. (If I want 700 degrees on my thermometer I have to put the dial on 750 to 800) I got the NOE thermometer. Should I trust my thermometer or the Pro Melt?

[Larry Gibson]

Have you really cleaned the mould well and gotten all oil, etc. out of it?

What alloy?

Larry Gibson

[454PB]

Sounds like either bad alloy or an oily mould.

[Grandpas50AE]

I have an older Pro Melt, and I have surmised that the dial indicates watts, not temperature. When I set my dial on 820, the melt temperature (according to my thermometer and reaction of my molds) is 700* F. Melt temperature is not indicated on the boolit as much as is the mold temperature. Frosted boolits indicates mold temperature on the high side (slight frosting is usually o.k.) while wrinkle is almost always mold temp too cold (increase cadence to cast more drops per minute).

[mooman76]

I wouldn't worry about the frost, just concentrate on getting rid of the wrinkles. Usually I'd sat not hot enough but if you are getting winkles and frost at the same time I'd say clean the mould. Don't worry about the temp dial, they are usually wrong anyway.

[heavyd]

I have cast with the mold before. Also cleaned it out with break cleaner and even smoked it a few times after casting for a while. I didn't know alloy could made bad boolits, that is probably it. It is %100 wheel weights. I did flux it several times with some boolit lube to try and get all of the trash out. I thought if you fluxed it and got all the trash out you would have a good alloy?

[randmplumbingllc]

I had the same issue with few days ago with wrinkles. A friend pointed out that I had too fast a flow from my bottom pour pot. He said that the lead was "swirling".

Turned down the flow and problem solved.

For the frosting : Try heating up your pot and dropping in a chunck of wax. If it flames up, your melt is too hot. If it just melts, you are good to go.

Your results may vary.

[Shiloh]

So, you have cast good boolits before with this mold??

Shiloh

[heavyd]

So, you have cast good boolits before with this mold??

Shiloh

I have not cast much with this mold. Use to I would keep all boolits and didn't worry about quality. I would like to at least be able to make some quality boolits if I keep a good pace. It is probably user error, but I will clean the mold again to make sure.

[beemer]

If I have a mold that is giving problems or has been oiled and stored for a while I boil the blocks in a pot of water with a couple of drops of dishwashing liquid. Just don't get caught using a pot that belongs to the cook.

[prs]

When having such problems: if a steel block, I use hot water and dish soap to scrup the cavities with old clean tooth brush ( don't let cook know you borrowed her toothbrush). Rinse well. If aluminum block, I do the same, but before that final rinse, I scrub again with white vinegar and let set 5 minutes before the rinse. After bringing mould up to heat, do smoke the cavities with a clean harwood splint.

prs

[mpmarty]

wrinkled boolits + frosted boolits = hot, dirty mold. Don't smoke it or use any magic mold release, just scrub it and not with brake cleaner either. Use dish soap and hot water and rinse well and in hot enough water for the mold to air dry. Next item to look at are the vent lines on the mold faces. They need to be open and clear so the air can escape as you pour.

[runfiverun]

depending on what you smoked it wiith, you could have put oil in the cavitys.
wash it all out, trust your thermometer.
you might need to adjust your flow, i run a pretty slow flow, steady, but not shooting out.
i can control my sprue size easily,and fill even small [55gr boolits] cavitys without making a mess.

[ku4hx]

I just got through with a casting session on a Pro Melt I just purchased used. It is approximately 15 years old. I am casting 9mm lyman 147 rn fp 4 cavity. My boolits almost always come out wrinkled and frosted. Always frosted and %80 wrinkled. I cast at all temps on my furnace, from 700 to 850. Same result, frosted and wrinkled bullets across the board. I also let the mold get hot and cold to see if it was the mold temp. Same result no matter what. What am I doing wrong?

Am I correct about the following?:
- Frosted boolits = alloy or mold too hot
- Wrinkled boolits - mold too cold

The spout generally froze when I put the temp dial on 700. It seems that the temp dial shows 75 to 100 degrees lower than my actual thermometer. (If I want 700 degrees on my thermometer I have to put the dial on 750 to 800) I got the NOE thermometer. Should I trust my thermometer or the Pro Melt?

Sound to me like your thermostat is no longer able to hold the temp you need. Happened to me with my circa 1970 Lyman pot. It has a screw under the temp knob you use to compensate for thermostat aging. My Lyman Mag20 has no such adjustment capability.

As to which to trust. I think I'd not trust the pot ... it seems to be the culprit.

[Bret4207]

For the frosting : Try heating up your pot and dropping in a chunck of wax. If it flames up, your melt is too hot. If it just melts, you are good to go.

Your results may vary.

Pot temp, mould temp- two entirely different things. The wax test isn't a good test for this. If you have liquid alloy in the pot, chances are you can cast with it.

[Bret4207]

I have not cast much with this mold. Use to I would keep all boolits and didn't worry about quality. I would like to at least be able to make some quality boolits if I keep a good pace. It is probably user error, but I will clean the mold again to make sure.

Get the mould really clean, work at it. Get it up to temp. MOULD temp is the important thing here, not pot temp. See how it does. If you still get incomplete fillout and wrinkles, you alloy may be low in tin.

[Linstrum]

One thing we have to keep in mind is that boolit casting has been going on since the year 1249 (at least according to written record), so it isn't exactly rocket science. Not trying to make you feel bad, just pointing out that it isn't that hard WHEN you pay attention to mold temperature, mold prep, and alloy. Mold prep includes making sure it has adequate venting lines cut into the mating surfaces to let air out so the molten alloy can get in, and that rust preventative, oil, grease, solvent, and wax are totally removed.

I used to cast out of a soup can I heated on a gas stove and got excellent results without a thermostat or thermometer - like Bret4207 says, if there is liquid alloy in the pot, chances are you can cast with it. If you are simultaneously getting frosted and wrinkled boolits, then it is quite likely that the mold is oily in conjunction with high alloy temperature. Anything that generates gas INSIDE the mold cavity will cause wrinkling regardless of the mold temperature.

One last thing I learned the hard way was about inadequate mold venting. If the air can't get out then the alloy can't get in, which results in wrinkled boolits or other evidence of poor fill-out. I have made my own molds since 1964 and I learned all about the importance of venting. Another thing, just because a mold is made commercially by a big company that has been in business for a long time doesn't mean the mold you got was made right. I have had plenty of lemons right out of the box that I had to re-cut the vent lines in before the mold cast worth beans. In some molds I have vented the underside of the sprue cutter by filing a shallow "X" centered on the sprue hole to get the gas check heel of the boolit sharp and defined well enough for the gas check to stay put when crimped on.

rl 1076

[44man]

Found a lot of problems with pots, some took so long to cycle, lead started to freeze. Thermostats go haywire.
There are no heating elements in the bottom of cheaper pots so the spout can start to freeze first.
My friend has two Lyman and two RCBS pots and he never gets a single good boolit but I ladle pour with a 20# Lee with no rejects.
Pot cycles are important to keep temp swings close.
You can hear the pot turn on, if the time is long between, you have a problem.

[Larry Gibson]

Frosty bullets indicates the pot is working fine and the alloy is getting hot enough.

Clean the mould again and don't "smoke" it.

The mould also has to be hot enough as Bret mentions. With smaller bullets in a iron 4 cavity mould you must cast relatively fast to maintain mould temp, particularly if casting in the winter with colder temps where casting(?).

One other thing many do not realize and that is how quickly the alloy stream will cool and how quickly it solidifies in the cavity. If the stream coming out of the spout is to slow then the alloy cools too quickly and the alloy solidifies unevenly in the cavities causing wrinkled bullets. Open the spout adjustment to get a very fast and large "pour" into the cavity and a large sprue, even if it runs off the side of the sprue plate. I constantly readjust the spout stop on my Lyman Mag 20 for various moulds and cavity size. One setting, especially a slow pouring setting, will not work for all moulds and bullets sizes.

Larry Gibson

[heavyd]

Thanks Larry. I am casting in my basement and it is about 65 degrees. I cleaned the mold by boiling it, washing it in hot water with dish soap and a tooth brush, then boiling it again. After a 2 hour casting session I still could not get good boolits. I varied the pace, changed where the stream hit the sprue plate or straight in the hole, how far away my sprue plate is from the spout of the furnace, how fast the stream comes out, and alloy temp. All the boolits were always frosted and %90 were wrinkled.

It is getting very frustrating. I have not had these problems with my 230 grain RN lyman 4 cavity mold for 45acp. My first reaction is to claim operator error, but after making all these adjustments without much luck it seems like this could be the mold. Could it be a picky mold? Should I call Lyman and see about returning it?

[SlippShodd]

Trust the thermometer. My Pro-Melt, which is at least twice as old as yours, maintains heat well and predictably, just no correlation to the indicator dial and the temp; very similar to your observations. (good call on the "watts" thing, G, ... hadn't thought of that). I just set it and forget it when I find the right temp range, then adjust the pour rate. All the above advice about cleaning and venting those mould blocks sounded spot on.

mike

[Springfield]

The temp guage doesn't always correlate to true temp, but the wattage stays the same, either the element is on or it isn't. How far do you keep the mould from the pour spout? If you get frosting AND wrinkles sounds like the alloy is too hot and the mould is too cold. Also, how long do you wait before cutting the sprue? With a smaller bullet like a 9mm about 2-3 seconds after the sprue cools should be enough. I keep my moolds hot enough so that most of the time I can just push it with my hand, no hammering the sprue. Seems like it is too fast but it usually isn't. If you get lead smears on the mould/sprue plate use some Bullplate, it will allow you to go fast enough. If you don't have any I can send you some, I have lots. I'm no expert but I do have a small commercial bullet business so I cast few bullets each month, all hand cast.

[heavyd]

The temp guage doesn't always correlate to true temp, but the wattage stays the same, either the element is on or it isn't. How far do you keep the mould from the pour spout? If you get frosting AND wrinkles sounds like the alloy is too hot and the mould is too cold. Also, how long do you wait before cutting the sprue? With a smaller bullet like a 9mm about 2-3 seconds after the sprue cools should be enough. I keep my moolds hot enough so that most of the time I can just push it with my hand, no hammering the sprue. Seems like it is too fast but it usually isn't. If you get lead smears on the mould/sprue plate use some Bullplate, it will allow you to go fast enough. If you don't have any I can send you some, I have lots. I'm no expert but I do have a small commercial bullet business so I cast few bullets each month, all hand cast.

I usually cut my sprue immediately after the entire sprue frosts. Then go right back to the pot. From what I understand this is pretty fast. My molds can get really hot and it starts to take several second for the lead on top to frost over. I think my molds are plenty up to temp.

[Shiloh]

Mineral spirits to give a good scrubbing. Chase it with a good scrubbing with dish soap. Scrub it longer than you think you need to. I put a bit of bon ami cleanser with the dish soap one on a used mold with a bit of rust. This has worked for me. Did have to simmer one though.

Shiloh

[heavyd]

Okay. It seems as though it is my mold temp. I have to cast very fast, like a mad man, for 10 minutes to get the mold up to temp then it start producing good boolits. The boolits were a little frosted but at least no wrinkles. I'm not too happy that it takes to long to get the mold up to temp. 10 minutes worth of casting after letting it preheat on the top of my pro melt seems a little much.

[1Shirt]

If you put your mold in the melt until it comes out without any lead sticking to it, I believe you will find that it is hot enough to produce good blts quickly. If not using bullplate, suggest that you start. If you are using bullplate, cut the sprue as soon as the color changes. I have been using this method for many years, and consider it to be quite good. Before bullplate, I used a bit of beeswax on the under side of the sprue cutter. Good luck!
1Shirt!

[edler7]

letting it preheat on the top of my pro melt

Go to Wally World or Walgreens- somewhere and get yourself a cheap hotplate to preheat your mold with. I went to the junkyard and got a chunk of 3/8 aluminum plate to set on top of mine. Preheat your mold on the hotplate while your alloy melts, and you should have good boolits right from the start.

It will make your life a lot easier.

[MtGun44]

The Universal Answer:

Your mold is dirty and/or too cold.

Repeat every time you get a wrinkly boolit.

Scrub the mold with a toothbrush and Comet. Rinse with very hot water.

Turn up the pot. Preheat the mold. CAST FAST, do NOT examine your boolits.
CAST,CAST,CAST, no break time, as fast as you can, to put heat into the mold.

Bill

[canyon-ghost]

I think you have the answer there. A 4 cav aluminum mold is going to dissipate heat too fast. At least, you worked hard enough to get it to work!

I dislike soaping, cleaning and etc., with molds because there is always some residue that you have to burn out! I've done that more than once, it's work.

Ron

[heavyd]

I think you have the answer there. A 4 cav aluminum mold is going to dissipate heat too fast.

It is a 4 cav lyman, so it is steel, not aluminum. Steel holds heat pretty well, correct?