150gn lee .308 ?

[morton3]

This is my 1st post on this forum & I`m very pleased to be a part of it.

I have a .308 rifle which I use mainly for pig shooting & culling roos. I have fiddled around with reduced loads using the Lee 150gn gas checked cast slug.

The slugs are sized to .308, however I can`t get much better than about 4-5" moa, often worse. I`ve spoken to the boffins at my Australian powder factory - ADI.
(ADI is marketed in the USA as Hodgen powders)

They told me to start with the fastest powder they make, AP-30 & use 10gns working slowly upward.

I`m up to 12.5gns so far & no improvement. I am concerned with such a fast powder I`m veering towards some very high pressures, although none are evident yet through visual inspection of primers, cases or sticky extraction.

Accuracy is, as I stated quite poor. The above mentioned powder is close in burn rate to Winchesters fine 231 or Uniques bullseye.

What powder should I be using from the Hodgen lineup ?

Can anyone give me a sensible starting point with powder weights ?

Ideally I`d like to get up around the 1800 fps mark or better, or am I just being over ambitious here ?

Thanks in advance for any replies

Regards Morton
Newcastle Australia

[sundog]

Morton3, welcome aboard, mate.

I've been experimenting with Lee 312-185-1R and Ly 31141 and 25.5/5744. That yields about 2000 fps in a 12-twist .308. You can tone that down a bit if you want.

I am relatively unfamiliar with the ADI lineup, other than the Hodgdon repackaged powders, but it looks like AR2205 or AR2207 might put you more in the range where you want to be. Just guessing.

I'd be a little leery of using the fast burning powders to do what you want to do. Somewhere on the ADI web site is a burn rate chart and cross reference to other manufacturers. Should give you an idea, between looking at it and some cast load data what to load.

[Doughty]

Morton3,

Welcome to the board.

You don't say what the diameters of your rifles bore, groove, throat and neck are. For starters, I'd be willing to bet that you are sizing your bullets too small. If you can, try shooting some as large in diameter as you can get to chamber easily.

Good luck and keep us posted on your results.

[grouch]

Although it's not 1800 fps, I've seen minute of angle accuracy in a .308 using the Lee 150gr with 11gr Unique.
After that, suggest you try 16gr - 18gr of H110 or h4227.

Best of luck. Grouch

[bruce drake]

I have to second OV's post about diameter of the bullet may be too small. I've got a 308 that I regularly shoot MOA with bullets sized to .310. I've got sizing dies for 308 and 309 as well as 311 but this barrel prefers to shoot the .310 sized bullets.

FIddle with the sizes of the bullet and you may get the accuracy you desire.

Bruce

[drinks]

I shoot all cast, including .308.
I normally use the slowest powder that will give the velocity I want and a bullet that is at least .002" over groove diameter.
I am shooting the Lee 113gr RFGC, the CTL 312-160 2R and the C309-200 RN in .308 and 3 other .30s.
I use 4227, 4198, Rel7, 3031 and 4895.
Yesterday I shot the 160gr 2R, 30gr Rel7 gave 2170fps and 1 1/2" group at 100yds.
I do not like to use fast powders with cast, in my opinion, they peak too fast, give more pressure than required and encourage leading and flyers.
I am sizing .311 for a .309 groove barrel.

[TAWILDCATT]

I use 13 gr RED DOT 170gr lrn in 30/06 gives 1680fs.my bullet is LYMAN311291.
that charge of unique should not give to high pressure.in my springfield it is tack driver/the person that gave me this used it at 200 yds.at 100 yds it needs 300 yd sight adjustment

[Larry Gibson]

You might try shooting them at "as cast" diameter.

What rifle, what twist, what sights, a bench position?

Have you sluged the throat or barrel as suggested?

What alloy, what lube?

What velocity?

Do you have a good reference for casting and reloading cast bullets?

A lot of variables there to be able to give a realistic answer. Give us some answers and maybe we can steer you in the right direction.

Larry Gibson

[morton3]

The rifle I`m using is as follows -

.308 win
M98 action Czech built (I think)
Schultz Larsen target barrel (600mm/24")
4-12x50 Tasco scope

I haven`t slugged the barrel or throat yet, I am unsure of how to slug the throat.

Lube is what is available, probably Lee Alox.

Alloy should be around 90% wheel weights, 10% linotype.

I have no idea of velocity.

This forum is the best point of reference I`ve ever seen, But no I don`t have any books dedicated to cast bullet use.

As an aside, my rifles barrel has fired around 4,000 rounds. It will still hold sub MOA with jacketed handloads. This may be of consideration to cast bullet use.

Thanks again for the replies
Morton

[versifier]

Slug the barrel first, don't worry about the throat yet. That boolit is a favorite of mine in .30-30 & .308, and, as stated above, I think the problem is not the powder, but the fact that you are sizing it too small. I would be going .310 or .311 with it, maybe even .312, but only slugging will tell you what you really need. When you are trying heavier/longer boolits, then you are going to have to pay more attention to the throat, but it is unlikely with the short 150gr that you can seat it out far enough to be engaging the lands anyway (maybe you can with your chamber, I can't with any of mine, but it still shoots accurately enough for deer hunting out of all the rifles I use it in). I add a little tin (solder) to my ww's to get good fillout, but I don't use lino in hunting boolits - it makes them too hard to get decent expansion. I save the lino strictly for serious target rounds. Lino gives you a stronger boolit that you can push faster, but I haven't found that the added velocity is enough for reliable expansion in boolits as small as .30cal. with harder alloys. I think well of BruceB's softpoints, and I cast them in 170 & 180gr - haven't bothered trying it with 150's as they have done the job as is, but then, I have not taken any live game yet with one. They expand noticably more when shot through water-filled plastic milk jugs, so I think they will do the job well, if and when. [smilie=1: . LLA for lube does the job for me, too. Just get yourself a bigger sizer and back off on the lino and I think you'll shrink those groups significantly.

[morton3]

Versifier, Thanks for the reply. I have slugged the barrel today & discovered .3085 diameter ( the largest diameter) I can`t measure the inner grooves in the lead slug. Anyway I also poured molten lead into the chamber & first 3" of barrel.
The measurement right in front of the case mouth is .3105. Tapering down for about 1/2" further on to the correct bore size.
Should I go for .311 or .312 & should I seat these out far enough to touch the lands if I can ?
My Lee mould casts to about .311.
I`m sorry I don`t follow what you mean by ww`s ?
If I just use wheel weights with say 1/2 a stick of solder to a melting pot
(lee 10pd melting pot) will this be hard enough for 1800 - 2,000 fps ?
The thing I want to avoid most of all is leading the barrel.

[JSH]

ww or WW= wheel weights

I would say to go to the larger size with the "choke" you are seeing in your bore. Though you may want to back down to .311 or .310. I have found on some occasions that to big will cause fouling, rather than a middle of the road size, so to speak.
As to powders in the 308, I have not used any CB's in my 308 as of yet. I have found that SR4759 is more and more my go to powder for most bottle neck cases. I think what your powder folks told you to use in this is a bit on the fast side. I would be inclined to recomend to use jacketed load data and back off 10% from a start load and see what you get. H4895(equal) would strike me as being a good one to start with.
I say this because I am not familiar with your powders you have on your side of the pond.
Jeff

[Guido4198]

Morton,
The responses so far look like they will get you going on the right track, especially the sizing. Try the "as-cast" route on a few test rounds...that has given me some good info in the past. The only thing I would add is to get a good copper removing bore cleaner ( I use Sweet's 7.62) and judiciously clean your bore of copper fouling. Can't say that this will be "the answer" in total...but it will help.
Cheers,
Don

[versifier]

Morton,
You aren't going to run into any problems at .311 or .312, and will likely see better grouping. (I had Buckshot make me a custom .310 push-through sizer because my .308 prefers it with hunting boolits. I'd go bigger and harder for target boolits, but every rifle is different - only yours can tell you what it likes best.) I add just enough solder to the melt to insure good fillout. In 10lbs of WW I would add maybe 4oz, unless they weren't filling with nice sharp corners, then I'd go a little more, but you don't need much if you're running the melt and mould at the proper tempertures. The softer alloy obturates (fills the grooves upon firing) better, too, and that will help both stability and accuracy. Accuracy is never hurt by getting the boolit or bullet as close to the origin of the lands as possible, but it's not always doable with short boolits. That doesn't mean you have to limit yourself by seating them only to the crimp groove, though - you can go longer, but I wouldn't go much beyond the first lube groove even if you are using a Factory Crimp die (and you should be anyway with cast IMO) so the boolit is held very firmly in the case.
The longer Lee 170grFN is a very good hunting boolit, too, and don't overlook the little 117grFN Soupcans, one of the better and more versatile Lee .30cal designs that will work on small game up through deer (with very careful shot placement). Lee moulds are inexpensive enough that you can afford to buy several different ones to see which rifle likes what best.

[Leftoverdj]

From the Hodgdon line up, you will get about 1800 fps with that 150 grain bullet with the following:
23 grains Varget
24 "" H4895
25 "" BL-C(2)
25 "" H335
22 "" H322
30 "" H4350
35 "" H450

All those loads should give cast bullet friendly pressure. I cribbed the list from Chapter 10 of Lee #2.

[MaxJon]

This is my 1st post on this forum & I`m very pleased to be a part of it.

I have a .308 rifle which I use mainly for pig shooting & culling roos. I have fiddled around with reduced loads using the Lee 150gn gas checked cast slug.

The slugs are sized to .308, however I can`t get much better than about 4-5" moa, often worse. I`ve spoken to the boffins at my Australian powder factory - ADI.
(ADI is marketed in the USA as Hodgen powders)

They told me to start with the fastest powder they make, AP-30 & use 10gns working slowly upward.

I`m up to 12.5gns so far & no improvement. I am concerned with such a fast powder I`m veering towards some very high pressures, although none are evident yet through visual inspection of primers, cases or sticky extraction.

Accuracy is, as I stated quite poor. The above mentioned powder is close in burn rate to Winchesters fine 231 or Uniques bullseye.

What powder should I be using from the Hodgen lineup ?

Can anyone give me a sensible starting point with powder weights ?

Ideally I`d like to get up around the 1800 fps mark or better, or am I just being over ambitious here ?

Thanks in advance for any replies

Regards Morton
Newcastle Australia

Hi there, iI am using 7.0 grains of AP50N(ADI) behind a 170gr Lee cast bullet and it shoots well under an inch at 50yds! Might be a bit on the slow side for you, I only need it for 50yds!
Good to talk to someone in my own backyard!! I think it is doin bout 800fps. Will let you know when i chrono it! :coffee::coffee::coffee:

[gary0529]

Morton,
For what it is worth, I use 165 cast in a suppressed 30 cal. subsonic (running right at 1030-1050) with great accuracy from a 1:8 Lilja barrel and I have found Lil Gun to be my answer. I have gone away from the faster pistol powders like H110/231. Spotty accuracy and unburned powder to deal with.
If interested, PM me and I will fill in the gaps.

Gary

[243winxb]

From the Hodgdon line up, you will get about 1800 fps with that 150 grain bullet with the following:
23 grains Varget
24 "" H4895
25 "" BL-C(2)
25 "" H335
22 "" H322
30 "" H4350
35 "" H450

All those loads should give cast bullet friendly pressure. I cribbed the list from Chapter 10 of Lee #2. < Good Info. The H4895@ 27.3gr :confused: looks good on paper with a bullet sized to .310" it you look at Hodgdon youth load 60% Rule . PDF file >http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf
ADI - AR2206H was released into the North American market in 1999, and is distributed by the Hodgdon Powder Co. under the brand name H4895. This powder has proven to be extremely popular in the USA due to its superior loading consistency and its unrivalled performance stability in severe temperature variations. Distribution to such a demanding and variable market also means that we can offer more reloading data to cover your favourite calibre-projectile combinations. Australian handloaders can now experience the many benefits of reloading with AR2206H.

[1Shirt]

Welcome! There is good information posted here, and the recommendations are excellent. .310 and or even .311 if it will chamber will probably stand you in good stead. As mentioned shooting as cast may also have merit.
Good Luck
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[243winxb]

A Lyman "M" die should be used to open up the case mouth so you don't shave lead on seating the bullets. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=129697