Lar's red sticky as a sweet roll... what am I doing wrong ?

[BigSlick]

Hi guys,

Sittin in a hotel room, surfin and trying to learn a little more about getting everything worked out to my liking. No loading, casting or lubing, so I figure it's a good time to keep learning.

I've been using Lar's Red Carnauba with the 500 Mag, 10mm and 45 ACP. Finally slugged everything and got bullets sized so they still chamber and actually fit the barrel too.

Fantastic lube properties, no leading at all in any of them, simple clean up and the price is definitely right.

My only problem with this stuff is figuring out how to use it without all my bullets sticking together. I generally do a lube run in the LAM II and let the bullets sit over night with a little space between them on their base so the lube can cool and set up. Then start loading.

To minimize the amount of time it takes to get thru a big loading run, I keep the bullets in a plastic tub and sit it on the bullet tray of the Dillons. Keeps the lube from getting all over the tray.

After the bullets are in the plastic tub for 15-20 minutes, they seem to start sticking together, moreso as time goes on.

By the time I need to drop primers again, the bullets are sticking together like a popcorn ball. Of course, sticky fingers, lube residue on the loaded rounds etc..

I don't have too much problem with lube getting outside the grooves unless I let the heat get too high or run too much pressure. When I do see any lube on the base, I wipe it as soon as it comes out of the die, before putting it out to set up.

What am I doing wrong here ?

Too much lube ? Not enough drying time ? Maybe too much heat ?

I *really* like this lube, but the sticky has got to go.

Any ideas ?
________
Vapir no2 vaporizer (http://vapirno2.net)

[Phil]

Normal, I just lube my bullets and sit them on a piece of plywood with a bit of air space between them. Thats where I load them from. You will always have the sticking together problem just dumping them in a tub. I have heard of dusting them with powdered mica or something, I just never saw the need to do it. The BIG thing is that the lube works, gives no leading, good accuracy, and all that. The lubes I've found that are so hard the bullets don't stick together, also have almost zero lube capabilities. Lead, lead, lead.

Cheers,

Phil

[44man]

That is the reason the best lubes work so good! Don't do anything to change it. I live with the mess of a good lube and won't have it any other way. Nothing as pretty as a mess of boolits all stuck together.

[tding]

Where can I get the best price on Lar's red?

[Dale53]

Big Slick;
I am sitting here kind of chuckling with you (not laughing at you). I have recently unearthed several boxes of bullets that were sized and lubed with NRA Alox/Beeswax about twenty years ago. The bullets were neatly stacked and layered in a cigar box with tablet backing dividers (layer dividers). The lube is still in the grooves but the bullets were packed rather closely and are "stuck" together. I have to use a bit of force to separate them. Nothing bad, just was grinning when I read your post as our problems seem similar. My bullets were stored decently so that was not a problem. Just a bit of sticky seems to be the norm. Incidentally, while I do not necessarily recommend long term storage of lubed bullets, it appears that they have not overly suffered. After shooting these (.45 ACP 200 SWC's) they are shooting well with absolutely NO leading.

This brings up a pet peeve of mine, and here I am doing it myself. We all seem to mention "no leading" as if that is a major problem. That should NEVER be a problem with cast if our load is balanced (correct alloy and decent lube) but accuracy is the quality that should be mentioned. Generally, bullet accuracy fails way before leading occurs. At least, that has been my experience. Dern near any kind of lube will stop leading, but accuracy requires certain qualities that are NOT found in something just because it is slick.

Some time ago, a fellow at the club was highly touting pre-lubing your .22 rimfire barrel with an automotive additive that contained micro fine molybdenum disulfide. Well, a good friend and friendly competitor tried it out on a very accurate single shot. He used the prescribed "break in" process using the "miracle" lube. The rifle went from 3/8" groups at fifty yards (pretty dern good for a light sporter falling block single shot rifle) to shooting "maybe" four inch groups. He cleaned and cleaned and finally just decided that he had ruined his rifle. However, I encouraged him to keep shooting it. He is a bit pessimistic about life in general and you should have heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth (I really felt compassion for him). However, he kept shooting, with continuing dismal results. Finally, after an entire "brick' of ammo (five hundred rounds) the accuracy returned in his little rifle. Miracle of miracles, things turned out well.

The moral of this story, is all that is slick does not necessarily sparkle (accuracy, not "lead free" is the goal - lead free comes easy, accuracy, not necessarily).

Dale53

[357maximum]

If you know any one in the medical field have them save those "vaccutainer" foam inserts that they use to sucka your blood.... They look alot like the foam inserts pistol rounds used to come in...they are available in at least three sizes...the ones for the kiddies are the ones I prefer for the 35's, but they all work. They magically hold 100 boolits totally segregated and ready to load..with no sticky mess. I have a piece of 1/4 luan plywood I place on top and invert the tray with and all boolits will be sitting there looking like soldiers in formation, just waiting to sit in your brass... The old foam inserts from pistol rounds work too, but it seems most are going to the plastic ones that suck in my opinion....I am lucky my wife is a nurse...so I get them almost as fast as I use them...

[BABore]

Midway sells cardboard ammo boxes and styrofoam trays for $10-$12 for a case of 25.

Dale53,

We have the same pet peeve. A little leading comes out real quick with Chore Boy. Accuracy is theeeee #1 priority! Every bullet/load has a specific lube that will produce the best accuracy. When working up a new load I treat it just like the other components, another variable. Slick is best reserved for snot.

[RayinNH]

tding, go here http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

If it was any less Glen couldn't afford to make it. A very good lube, and a gentleman to boot...Ray

[Maven]

Re: Sticky CB's. C.E. Harris posted an answer to this on the CBA Forum the other day. He suggested lightly dusting the CB's with calcium stearate since Motor Mica or talc was too abrasive. This begs the question, where does one get calcium stearate (in manageable quantities)?

[MT Gianni]

One other thing we learn is to not keep lubed bullets around. Lube then load works well. It can be a pain but beats finding out 1/4 of the lube groove is no longer filled due to melt. Cast all winter but lube before you load works well. Gianni.

[Boomer Mikey]

I put powdered mica in an old onion salt spice container and dust a pile of bullets in an old cool whip bowl lightly before tumbling them gently after sizing. Then I store the bullets in rubbermaid containers with snap on lids to keep them "fresh".

I have some bullets that are 10 years old or more, and the're just a fresh as the day they were sized. I got a small can of powdered mica about 15 years ago and I'm not running low yet.

I've used this with soft and hard lubes with equal success.

Boomer :Fire:

[felix]

Maven, about any powder will work fairly well. The new baby powders are not made from magnesium (stearate) any more, but are nothing but ground up corn starch, from most vendors. Plain ol' corn starch from the grocery store won't have the smellies typically found in baby powder, and might even be cheaper. ... felix

[9.3X62AL]

I either lube as I load when processing ammo on a single stage press--or lube a lot of bullets (50-200) just before cycling them through the P-W. I don't leave pre-lubed boolits laying around--too many storage and grit attraction issues to contend with.

[44man]

Dale is right. Just preventing leading doesn't make a good lube. Just that simple. I have cut groups by 2/3rds just changing lube.

[Phil]

While I agree that just preventing leading doesn't in itself make a good lube, and I have noted differences in accuracy with different lubes, you will never get great accuracy with a leaded barrel. I also note that THE AMOUNT of lube used on a bullet can affect accuracy to a remarkable degree. Also, the HARDNESS of a bullet can make a big difference. Not to mention DIAMETER of said bullet, and a host of other factors.

Cheers,

Phil

[44man]

Yep, everything counts but I only compare lubes that don't lead, any that do get tossed and I won't compare them against anything else. I just compare apples to apples.