535 grain bullet in 45/70

[TCoggins]

Gents - I have an H&R Buffalo Classic in 45/70, and am working on loading some 535 grain bullets. I purchased the bullets from one of the members here on Cast Boolits, and asked him for a bit more info on the bullet design.

However, if I use the Lyman data for 535 bullets, they specify an OAL of 2.930". If I seat the bullet to this OAL, the case mouth is in a lube groove. I would need to seat the bullet about .075" deeper to get the case mouth to crimp on the driving band (is that the correct term?).

My concern is, what would seating this deeper do to the pressures involved? I am starting with trap door loads, (starting load would be 36 grains of Reloder 7).

I would appreciate any input you folks could offer.

Thank you.

Tim

[white eagle]

follow the book
don't venture you'll be o.k.

[brad925]

If i was shooting these in a lever gun i would crimp them but i have the same gun and have never crimped one. I dont feel a need for it in a single.

[TCoggins]

If i was shooting these in a lever gun i would crimp them but i have the same gun and have never crimped one. I dont feel a need for it in a single.

Brad - Are you saying to just load them to the book OAL, disregarding the fact that the lube groove is exposed?

Thanks.

Tim

[MT Chambers]

Every gun is going to have a diff. OAL even with the same bullet if you seat for max. reach into rifling, that's why you start low. IF it were me, I would load Black powder with that bullet, and then you would never have pressure concerns.

[1Shirt]

For what ever it is worth, I am a firm believer in the Lee factory crimper die mostly for consistancy.
1Shirt!

[oldred]

Yes seating it deeper will increase pressure but obviously you don't want the lube groove exposed. Is the data you are looking at for that particular bullet? If it is the right bullet for the data listed and the OAL specs leaves a groove exposed then something is not right, are the cases by chance the short Hornady cases for the Leverevolution (or however the heck that stupid name is spelled) rounds?

[leftiye]

You don't need to crimp. How about leaving that lube groove dry of grease? Not that exposed lube is a problem (it can be kept clean). Seat the boolit to touch the rifling, use slow powder and start low, or start with trapdoor loads. Unless you get way out there, the 45-70 isn't usually loaded nutso enough that a little depth is a problem. But as I said, I'd go the other direction lengthwise.

[TCoggins]

The bullet is the Lyman 457132, which is the bullet that the load data references. The brass is Winchester, and I double checked the length at 2.10" long. I'll load a few with the groove exposed and see what happens.

I don't really feel comfortable seating that bullet deeper than the book calls for, as I have no idea what that does to pressure.

Thank you for the responses.

Tim

[mpmarty]

Good on ya. That's the right attitude.

[geargnasher]

36 grains of Reloder 7 is going to wake you up with that little rifle and that heavy boolit! Lots of people like XMP5744 for your component choices, but I've always had good luck with Reloder 7 with less pressure and recoil for similar velocities. My favorite load for 45/90 is 40 grains of Reloder 7 with a 505-grain boolit, and it hammers me pretty hard in a 13.5 lb Shiloh Sharps. With 45/70, I like 450-grain boolits and considerably less Reloder 7 than you're contemplating based on the book loads.

Gear

[littlejack]

In a single shot rifle, crimping the boolit is not necessary. As a matter of fact, when you do crimp the boolit, you are overworking the brass, and will cause the neck to crack faster than if you haden't crimped the boolit. You can opt to just take out the bell in the neck, that's what a lot of shooters do, including myself.
I load the 457125 500 grain boolit in my Uberti 45-70 Hiwall. I do not lube the forward lube groove, because it runs out forward of the end of the case. There seems to be plenty of lube with the other three grooves in the boolit. I could lube the forward groove, but I choose not to take chance of the lube collecting dirt and debris.
Yes, I load black, but you can do the same with smokeless.
It will all depends on how the rifle likes the boolit seated. Just adjust your powder charge accourding to the manuals, seat the boolit to what shoots the most accurate and thats it.
Sounds easy huh? If only it was.
Jack

[brad925]

Unless you have had the throat lengthened out i dont think you could chamber a cartridge that was set at an OAL of 2.930". My H&R BC shooting a Lee 405HB is touching the lands set at an OAL of 2.60". Thats has been one complaint of this rifle was the relatively short throat. I believe that seating your bullet deeper will only raise your pressures if you are compressing your load. I am not positive so you would have to check but you probably would be alright seating deeper using a trapdoor load in smokless.

[TCoggins]

Brad - This bulet has a smaller diameter nose than the driving bands, which allows it to chamber without engraving the rifling onto the bullet. I have run into the issue you describe with other cast boolits that have a larger diameter nose.

Because the bullet is so long, I made up a dummy round and checked to make sure it would chamber, and it did.

Thanks for all the responses.

Tim

[44man]

I like what Gear said! [smilie=s:
That thing will wake you up for sure.
I have a big, heavy Browning BPCR and you don't shoot it prone without a shoulder pad and elbow pads.
Even from the bench it can get nasty.

[bobthenailer]

With a 535 gr bullet ! it may not be compleatly stablized at a range of 100 yards or less so you my have to use 200 yards for accuracy testing . I went through the same problem with my BPCR in 45/70

[1Shirt]

Gear and 44Man are right about it being a thumper in that rifle. I have a 535 gr. for my #1 Ruger in 45-70. With any vol much above 1000 fps, it will wamp ya from what ever position you shoot it from. With a full power or a load approaching full power for your rifle, suggest a limbsaver slip on pad, AND a sissy bag of sand tween you and the butt of your rifle. Suggest you work with minimum starting loads and work up. Also suggest you get your hands on some 350-400 grain blts.
1Shirt!

[TCoggins]

Oh, there's no doubt this will be a thumper. I don't plan on plinking all day with these. I think it's more of a case of, if they didn't want me to shoot boolits this big, they wouldn't have made them.

Thanks for all the responses. I hate deviating from published load data and was just looking for a little reinforcement for what I was seeing.

Now, I think I'm going to cook up some Ben's Red lkube and pan lube these monsters.

Thanks.

Tim

[450 Fuller]

I have some of these and I will try them in a S. Sharps, but NOT in my 1887 HW-SS Winchester.
Slightly faster powder or FG black.

[mehavey]

Seat it out to where it engages the lands.
(That means: Seat it loooong... then gradually walk it back to where you can cleanly close the action.
Wherever that it is, that's your OAL. (Juuuuust cover last grease groove if practical.)

Get yourself some 5744 and enjoy
https://i.postimg.cc/YC418SH5/Pedersoli-1874-Sharps-Postell5744-v2-sm.jpg

NOTE: Seated this way, in that rifle, no crimp.

[BLAHUT]

I QUIT USEING ANYTHING EXCEPT BLACKHORN209 IN MY 45/70 ROLER< 500+ gr BULLET< PURE LEAD< 38 TO 42 gr BLACKHORN209< ALL GRESE GROVES FILLED< MAG PRIMER< 1 MILK CARTON CARD WAD OVER POWDER< 1 PLASTIC CARD WAD OVER PAPER WAD AND UNDER BULLET< CORK WAD IF NEEDED TO FILL AIR VOID, PLASTIC WAD ON TOP UNDER BULLET ? THIS ACTS LIKE A CLEANER ROUND< SLIGHT COMPRESSION< OL JUST TO CLOSE ACTION< 1200fps OR A TAD LESS< ACCURATE FROM 100yds TO 1000meters< 8/10 IN X RING AT 1000 IF I DO MY PART< THICK SOFT RECOIL PAD< CHEEK RISER AND WHEN NEEDED FOR LONG RANGE A FOLD TOWEL OVER CHEEK PAD< TILT LONG RANGE SIGHT FORWARD SO YOU CAN SEE THROUGH IT< BRASS NOT RESIZED, JUST BELLED TO CENTER AND INDEXTED< BULLET JUST SITS THERE< PRESSED IN WITH FINGER PRESSURE ONLY> SHOOTS VERY CLEAN> THUMPS A LITTLE BIT BUT I SHOOT SITTING WITH STICKS< NO PROBLEM SHOOTING A 100 ROUND MATCH< I HAVE A BAD BACK JUST, TO LET YOU KNOW>>>> HAVE FUN WITH ALL OF THIS< IF IT WERE EASY, EVERYONE WOULD DO IT ???

[BLAHUT]

I FOLLOW BOOK DATA FOR MY LEVER GUIDE GUN, 45/70, LEE 515 gr BULLET, C57500F, .457, OL 2.55, 27 grs 5744, PURE LEAD. THIS IS FOR MY BEAR GUN FOR FISHING> WILL PUT 5 IN ONE RAGED HOLE AT 100yds, NASTY ON BOTH ENDS>>>>

[oley55]

THIS TYPE (YELLING) ALL THE TIME is hurting my eyes.

[barnabus]

36 grains of Reloder 7 is going to wake you up with that little rifle and that heavy boolit! Lots of people like XMP5744 for your component choices, but I've always had good luck with Reloder 7 with less pressure and recoil for similar velocities. My favorite load for 45/90 is 40 grains of Reloder 7 with a 505-grain boolit, and it hammers me pretty hard in a 13.5 lb Shiloh Sharps. With 45/70, I like 450-grain boolits and considerably less Reloder 7 than you're contemplating based on the book loads.

Gear

you are gonna get the dog crap knocked out of you with that load pal. find a 405 grain bullet.

[toot]

the gun that you have is a very strong one. in mine I load 27 grs of 4198. with a cotton ball filler or Rice Crispes. works for me. not telling you to use that load.

[Wayne Smith]

1) Don't try to shoot that load from the bench - it will hurt you.

2) Even with black the Govt. boolit hurt in a trapdoor - with a PAST pad.

3) Stand up and let your whole body move with the recoil and you can do it - but get a pad before you do that.

[Tazman1602]

Gents - I have an H&R Buffalo Classic in 45/70, and am working on loading some 535 grain bullets. I purchased the bullets from one of the members here on Cast Boolits, and asked him for a bit more info on the bullet design.

However, if I use the Lyman data for 535 bullets, they specify an OAL of 2.930". If I seat the bullet to this OAL, the case mouth is in a lube groove. I would need to seat the bullet about .075" deeper to get the case mouth to crimp on the driving band (is that the correct term?).

My concern is, what would seating this deeper do to the pressures involved? I am starting with trap door loads, (starting load would be 36 grains of Reloder 7).

I would appreciate any input you folks could offer.

Thank you.

Tim

Dude if you will watch this video, this guy shows the easiest way to find out COL for a specific bullet in a single shot:

https://youtu.be/wEvUTVl6OCc

Art

[Chief TC]

Dude if you will watch this video, this guy shows the easiest way to find out COL for a specific bullet in a single shot:

https://youtu.be/wEvUTVl6OCc

Art

Thanks for sharing this, excellent video and easy to do!

[Rev_DStan]

My men. This thread is over 10 years old. I hope he's figured his load out by now. lol

[rickt300]

I tried them in a Marlin 45-70 carbine an I could not push them fast enough to stabilize.

[BLAHUT]

I shoot a roler, so OL has to be dead on, no caming action, I found that by chambering a round and pushing in as far as I could, to see if action would close? set so bullet was just touching lands. I do not crimp, only bell. mine is accurate out to 1000 meters with a 500 - 525 grain bullet.