40 pound Bullet At 4,500 MPH?

[UtopiaTexasG19]

Wonder if the mould for this projectile will have wheels? And no more gun powder in navy cannons? Hand held mini unit to come.....
http://news.yahoo.com/navy-railgun-tests-leading-ship-superweapon-2020-201003095.html

[Anthony333]

Wow, a flying mega spanner..lolz...its amazing !

[waksupi]

These have a much higher velocity, if enough current can be supplied to them. Surface warfare is about to make a big change.

[Grapeshot]

Imagine a 16 inch diameter projo usually used in a Battleship's guns launched at 100 times the velocity and fin stabilized. Can you say over the horizon?

[stubshaft]

And this is needed to replace FNF missiles because?

[XWrench3]

And this is needed to replace FNF missiles because?

ANY excuse to spend multiple millions of uncollectable tax money in the name of "can we do it" is plenty good enough reason for our current government. besides, if they can make war without gunpowder, then they can ban it altogether. and private citizens will not be able to shoot at them when they decide to "upgrade" government to dictatorship.

[youngda9]

What lube did they use? Pan lube, tumble lube, or lubri-size? What was the lead composition and hardness? Was there any leading in the barrel? Did they slug the barrel and size the boolit .001 over groove diameter?

[popper]

Kind of like airborne chemical lasers used to destroy ICBMs and dumping our nukes while no-one else does or arguing about Iran uranium enrichment program to give them time to get a delivery package.

[waksupi]

The advantage I see, is it opens up targets 100 miles inland, that would otherwise require an air strike. I imagine the cost per round/per flight/pilot safety makes it a fairly attractive weapon system.

[Wayne Smith]

The other advantage is speed. Missiles are slow and easy to counter in comparison.

[garym1a2]

Also missiles can be stopped. Nothing can stop this item.

But it will take a Nuke power plant and a large boat to haul the batteries to run it.


The other advantage is speed. Missiles are slow and easy to counter in comparison.

[Chicken Thief]

Also missiles can be stopped. Nothing can stop this item.

But it will take a Nuke power plant and a large boat to haul the batteries to run it.

An aircraft carrier!

40lbs at 4500mph = ME @27.2 mega ft/lbs

Iowa 16" gun:
1900lbs at 2690fps = ME @ 214.63 mega ft/lbs

ratio 1:7.89 so i'm not quite scared yet

[Mk42gunner]

Wonder if the mould for this projectile will have wheels? And no more gun powder in navy cannons? Hand held mini unit to come.....
http://news.yahoo.com/navy-railgun-tests-leading-ship-superweapon-2020-201003095.html

The news release that I saw had 5,600 MPH. I think the reporters probably heard 4500 to 5600 and assumed MPH instead of FPS.

The projectiles will probably be cast steel and then machined to final size.


Imagine a 16 inch diameter projo usually used in a Battleship's guns launched at 100 times the velocity and fin stabilized. Can you say over the horizon?
16" guns already fire OTH, but there aren't any in active status now anyway. The typical 5"/54 technically will fire OTH, too. Its range is a nominal 26,000 yards or 13 miles.


Also missiles can be stopped. Nothing can stop this item.

But it will take a Nuke power plant and a large boat to haul the batteries to run it.

Stopping it depends on seeing it, first.

The power requirements (and funding) are what has held the railgun back for decades.

Anytime you can increase your effective range, without the enemy increasing theirs is a good thing in combat.

Robert

[Iron Mike Golf]

And this is needed to replace FNF missiles because?

We're looking at something that does a little more damage than a Tomahawk cruise missle. The cost per round of the ammo is a fraction of a Tomahawk. Ammunition storage is safer, as there is no explosive. Amount of ammo stored on board a ship is vastly greater due to reduced cost and space.

This could also be a dual purpose weapon system (anti-surface and anti-air)

[Blammer]

heck if they run out of ammo they just chunk old spanner wrenches in the barrel to shoot. :D

[stubshaft]

heck if they run out of ammo they just chunk old spanner wrenches in the barrel to shoot. :D

Great now jughead and his cronies will want to ban spanners. I can already see needing a registration card to buy tools from my "Snap-On" man.

[ChuckS1]

This has an interesting vertical launch application, with a projectile that would be fired into the upper atmosphere, deploy fins or whatever for stabilization, and then, as it tips over and falls, be GPS-guided to a target at a range much farther than a conventionally-fueled missile with a similar sized payload. The Navy already has plans for a littoral ship with vertical launch guns and the Germans have a working projectile.

[SciFiJim]

4500 -5600MPH = 6600 - 8200 fps

or 1.25 - 1.5 miles per second

My question is, if there is no powder burned, where does the smoke and flame in the video come from?
The high speed video of the projectile does not show it burning from friction.

[35remington]

Chicken Thief:

You are a bit low. The AP 16 inch shell weighs 2700 lbs. The 1900 pound shell is the "high capacity" shell used for shore bombardment for surface burst effect or thin skinned ships.

Muzzle velocity, per various sources, and depending upon caliber of barrel and amount of wear on the barrel liner, is 2450 to 2550 fps with the 2700 lb. AP shell. Wikipedia quotes 2500 fps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_Mark_7_gun

ME is 262 "mega" (million) ft. lbs at 2500 fps.

[jonk]

My question is, if there is no powder burned, where does the smoke and flame in the video come from?
The high speed video of the projectile does not show it burning from friction.

Indeed. The rapid compression of air by the projectile might superheat the air, with a lot of noise and heat, but it shouldn't produce flames and smoke. Unless I'm missing something rather badly, or it is a hybrid of gunpowder and electronic acceleration.

[Chicken Thief]

The driving coils heats up to (wery near/past) destruction and slams a (copper) plasma wave in front of the "driving" wave, behind the projectile (inside a sabot).
So exhaust is a big mash up of: Driving coil copper. plastic driving bands-sabot material and all other internal combustalbe coumpouds combined.

Heated to 25-30k degrees almost anything tends to burn quite good :)

[SciFiJim]

I was thinking that it would generate one heck of an EMP when it fires. They would have to heavily shield everything electronic on board a ship that carried one.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

When will they be available at Mil-Surp? Since Deer now laugh at the 30-30 and you need a 492 super magnum to kill anything larger than a groundhog, by the time these things are available, we will need them for deer. Or so goes the trend in the gun/hunting rags. LOL
CF

[Texantothecore]

We're looking at something that does a little more damage than a Tomahawk cruise missle. The cost per round of the ammo is a fraction of a Tomahawk. Ammunition storage is safer, as there is no explosive. Amount of ammo stored on board a ship is vastly greater due to reduced cost and space.

This could also be a dual purpose weapon system (anti-surface and anti-air)

From what I read, the number of rounds stored is in the hundreds or thousands rather than the dozens of rockets. Supply ships could carry thousands if need be.

We have also have increased the cost, dramatically, of going to war against us, which is a very good thing to do.

This also a first cut on the gun and others will be more powerful with longer ranges.

[SciFiJim]

We have also have increased the cost, dramatically, of going to war against us, which is a very good thing to do.

I think that is the whole point of a new weapons system.

I still would like a 45 caliber rail gun. At 6600fps, I would have to use a light boolit or my shoulder would wind up in the county behind me. :)

[ChuckS1]

It would be interesting to see if the Navy has plans for a projectile other than one that depends on kinetic energy to defeat its target. Though I can say that the depleted uranium tank round, while relatively small, packs one heck of a wallop! But that's at a distance of about 1000 meters, so it's still traveling pretty fast.

[fatnhappy]

heck if they run out of ammo they just chunk old spanner wrenches in the barrel to shoot. :D

Heck, they could load cans of spam in there, it'd be fried by the time it hits them.

[BAGTIC]

One of the main advantages is that one does not need to handle HE to make it effective. We have already changed the ammo in fighter planes to a non explosive frangible round for that very reason. No accidental detonations.

Conventional gun projectiles are so slow that it is now possible to shoot down shells in flight.

Also, no worry about the enemy salvaging the duds and making IED's out of them.

[waksupi]

Remember the detonation on the Iowa a few years back? Won't happen with these guns.

[MtGun44]

Very impressive. They were saying that the long range shots (~100 miles) would be suborbital shots,
into space and back.

I still think that a 2000 lb HE shell arriving and detonating is a wonderful education tool.

Bill

[BAGTIC]

It would be interesting to see if the Navy has plans for a projectile other than one that depends on kinetic energy to defeat its target. Though I can say that the depleted uranium tank round, while relatively small, packs one heck of a wallop! But that's at a distance of about 1000 meters, so it's still traveling pretty fast.

A KE projectile is all that is needed. At those velocities it will destroy anything it hits and it will leave craters as large as artillery rounds. Remember a 100 pound inert bomb dropped from an airplane will destroy any tank made as long as it hits.

[ChuckS1]

Back in my Ordnance Basic Course we saw a film that showed, in super slow motion, what happens when a DU KE round penetrates a tank turret. You could see the spalling on the inside of the turret wall as the projectile went through the turret (think of the inside of a patio door when a BB hits it), which creates smaller projectiles that rip through any hydraulic lines and crew members. The air superheats, igniting the hydraulic fluid, as well as killing the crew, and as causing any exposed main gun ammo to detonate. All in all, very impressive.

[Texantothecore]

Very impressive. They were saying that the long range shots (~100 miles) would be suborbital shots,
into space and back.

I still think that a 2000 lb HE shell arriving and detonating is a wonderful education tool.

Bill

And a suborbital shot will not be at 4500 MPH. Much, much higher speed.

[Texantothecore]

I am somewhat struck by the small size of the test gun. I was was expecting something that was about the length of a football field.

This could get very, very interesting.

[SciFiJim]

And a suborbital shot will not be at 4500 MPH. Much, much higher speed.

According to wikipedia, minimum velocity to reach suborbital heights, is 1.6km/s or just under 1mile/second. 4500mph is 1.25 miles per second. So, it is possible. Interesting stuff.

[BAGTIC]

The APFSDS tank projectile has a range much greater than a 16 inch battleship gun, about twice as far. Like the Energizer Bunny it just keeps on going.

[DrNick]

And this is needed to replace FNF missiles because?

Greater firepower, more flexibility and, lower cost per shot if you discount the development costs.....

[Texantothecore]

I wonder what the ballistic coeffienct of the aluminum round is going to be? That sucker is going to be generating a huge amount of heat at 4500 MPH.