PDA

View Full Version : Is a little leading expected



SlowSmokeN
02-29-2012, 04:24 PM
I bought a Lee 6 cavity mold for 9mm and the Lee sizer. Slugged my barrel, sized bullets, and using Recluse lube.

Gun: Taurus 1911 9mm
Boolit: range lead, air cooled, around 15-18 BHN (Pencil test)
load: 124g RN using 4g Unique. (least amount of powder as possible)

I shot my first 200 rounds last night and after 200 shots I have a little leading all the way down the barrel. It took maybe 5 min with hoops and a brass brush to clean it out. So no big deal.

Is this typical in the barrel or can I do better and eliminate leading all together?

Thanks

44man
02-29-2012, 04:57 PM
Small amounts are OK. What to avoid is a build up where it gets thicker and thicker to where rifling is stuffed full.
Leading should be shot out with every shot because it has not stuck to the barrel.
Sounds like you are doing real good.

calkar
02-29-2012, 07:07 PM
Wheeler Engineering bore lapping kit from MidwayUSA works for me. I use the 600 grit mostly, it just seems to smooth out the burrs from the machining process.

Cherokee
02-29-2012, 07:18 PM
Sounds normal for my several 9mm guns. I call it trace leading and it cleans right up, even after 500-600 rounds between cleaning.

popper
02-29-2012, 07:24 PM
I get the same thing in 40 with unique and recluse lube. Cleans out easily. Hoppes works for copper but is a waste for lead. Try Ed's red for CB.

cummins05
02-29-2012, 07:24 PM
I am really lucky have no leading as of yet I am glad for it too

cummins05
02-29-2012, 07:25 PM
I am a newbie but I would say a little leading if your planning to shoot your 200 or less rounds wouldn't hurt a thing just need to clean after each shooting session

runfiverun
02-29-2012, 08:59 PM
it tells me you need to try something else.
a small amount can be caused by several things.
you are so close why not try fixing it.
i'm pretty sure the taurus would like a 359 boolit.

SlowSmokeN
02-29-2012, 11:04 PM
it tells me you need to try something else.
a small amount can be caused by several things.
you are so close why not try fixing it.
i'm pretty sure the taurus would like a 359 boolit.


Runfiverun, I am all ears. Any suggestions would be great.

When I run the boolit through the sizer die it is only scratching the sides of the boolit. I wounder if they are falling out a little undersized. Could it be shrinkage in the mold.

JonB_in_Glencoe
02-29-2012, 11:14 PM
I'm not sure where runfiverun is getting boolit size of 359 unless he has a taurus 1911 style and his slugged just under that.

With that said, I doubt very highly that a Lee 356 mold will drop near .359

you should slug "your" bore, so you know what "your" gun is.
then shoot a boolit that's a bit larger, 0.001" larger is ideal.
Jon

SlowSmokeN
02-29-2012, 11:32 PM
Barrel slugs at .3455
boolit is sized to .3520 (lee sizer)

I read something on the site that no enough powder could case a problem. I am at 4g Unique which is the bottom recommended.

In addition when I run the boolit threw the sizer it isn't doing much. It barley scraps the side like the boolit is to small. Could I not be getting good fill in the mold. I am using range lead. Would a little something with tin in it help?

runfiverun
03-01-2012, 01:29 AM
those numbers you show are messed up.

my taurus pt-99 slugged at 358.
i started using 125 rnfp boolit for my 38 in it [sized to 358] and eventually it just became my 9mm boolit.
15-18 bhn actually sounds a bit hard.
you are super close, try bumping the load up a tad bit more.

SlowSmokeN
03-01-2012, 01:43 AM
Will do. I am going to load some more on Saturday for Monday's shoot. Load data shows 4.5g of Unique is the max. I will try to hit that or just under. Not to much room.

Boolseye
03-01-2012, 09:28 AM
If the boolits are shooting straight, you're doing pretty good out of the gate, but your numbers do sound off. Too low. Are you sure your vernier caliper is accurate?

SlowSmokeN
03-01-2012, 01:17 PM
If the boolits are shooting straight, you're doing pretty good out of the gate, but your numbers do sound off. Too low. Are you sure your vernier caliper is accurate?

I am not confident in my numbers. zeroed caliper this morning and got.

slug .354
boolit .356

GREENCOUNTYPETE
03-01-2012, 05:16 PM
if you pull one of your boolits from a loaded case , what does it measure

swagging them down a few thousandths is real easy to do possably part of why so many find a 358 boolit works well in 9mm many may end up sizing it down in the case to 356 or 357

i had to run .402 in a 40 cal now only one little spot in the barrel is getting any lead , i also got better results with a soft lube , i haven't tried the recluse lube yet

if your sizer is just barley touching the boolits sides why bother sizing skip the step and try loading a few up see if they will chamber

if it will chamber and is not ridiculously over sized then it likely wouldn't chamber if it was, it will size to exactly what it needs to be when you pull the trigger just fine.

Boolseye
03-02-2012, 06:23 PM
slug .354
boolit .356

That's more like it. definitely in the ballpark.

MtGun44
03-02-2012, 08:09 PM
Caliper is nearly as bad as guessing. You really should have a .0001" reading micrometer.

Enco tools and MSC often have Fowler brand micrometers on sale for well under $50.

Bill

blikseme300
03-03-2012, 11:57 AM
Caliper is nearly as bad as guessing. You really should have a .0001" reading micrometer.

Enco tools and MSC often have Fowler brand micrometers on sale for well under $50.

Bill

+1

Get and use a micrometer.

My experience with 9mm has been that fit is king, regardless of Pb alloy hardness. 9mm is a high pressure cartridge and boolit size and lube are critical to performance, accuracy and leading elimination.

My alloy mix consists of 2/3 WW + 1/3 pure + 1% tin. I cast at 720* into a Lee 356-120-TC that has been leemented and drops at .359. I size using a Star sizing to .358 and lube using a 50-50 mix of BAC and Carnuba red.

My pet load moves at 1050fps and accuracy is better than I can shoot. Ragged holes of average 3" at 25 yards are common. No leading is experienced.

My 2c

Bliksem

SlowSmokeN
03-03-2012, 02:27 PM
+1

Get and use a micrometer.

My experience with 9mm has been that fit is king, regardless of Pb alloy hardness. 9mm is a high pressure cartridge and boolit size and lube are critical to performance, accuracy and leading elimination.

My alloy mix consists of 2/3 WW + 1/3 pure + 1% tin. I cast at 720* into a Lee 356-120-TC that has been leemented and drops at .359. I size using a Star sizing to .358 and lube using a 50-50 mix of BAC and Carnuba red.

My pet load moves at 1050fps and accuracy is better than I can shoot. Ragged holes of average 3" at 25 yards are common. No leading is experienced.

My 2c

Bliksem


I am using a micrometer but the last number was a zero so I just left it off. I found it strange that they both came out to zero. One more reason why I am unsure of my measurements. I sent my slug and some boolits I made to someone who can put a better eye on them.

This is going to by my primary target load so I would love to get it dialed in 100%. I hope to load up some more rounds here pretty quick using more powder. I am at the very bottom recommended range. Perhaps by bumping up the charge a little could make a difference.

BulletFactory
03-03-2012, 05:33 PM
Just range lead? Unless youre getting a lot of cast boolits out of the berm, its probably going to be a little too soft. Call around a couple gunsmiths, and see if someone has a hardness tester.

SlowSmokeN
03-03-2012, 07:02 PM
loaded 300 new rounds with 4.5g of Unique instead of 4g Unique. Will be shooting them Monday night. I am now at the upper range of what is recommended.

I guess I should try one variable at a time.

Boolseye
03-07-2012, 08:57 AM
Caliper is nearly as bad as guessing. You really should have a .0001" reading micrometer.

Enco tools and MSC often have Fowler brand micrometers on sale for well under $50.

Bill

That's true. Good tools are always worth spending a little more.
my Frankford Arsenal caliper reads exactly .0015 low.
Better than nothing, though.

popper
03-07-2012, 11:41 AM
Beagle the mold or put in some Sb will make it drop a little bigger. Absolute measurement is not important, repeatability in the measuring device is. Most people cannot make a reliable measurement to .0001. The sizer should at least cause the driving bands to be completely scraped. Too much sizing will fill the lube grooves and make tails on the base. Are you figuring the unique max load for CB or jacket'd data? At mid loads of unique in .40 with CB, I get a powder/lube/lead residue all along the bbl which cleans out with 2 passes of a chore-boy wrapped brush and a couple of clean tight patches. I'm using the kerosine/ATF/kroil oil cleaner and the cleaned bbl looks box new.

SlowSmokeN
03-07-2012, 01:16 PM
I sent up a package to a member here on the site and he found.
Boolit is around 8bhnl, which means it is a little soft.
Boolitis a little undersized, main reason for leading

I sent Unique an email with the boolit info and they sent me an email saying the range for that particular boolit using Unique is 4-4.5. A very small window.

I am waiting for a little lino in hope to fill out in the mold more and will see what that does. If that doesn't work it will be lapping.

I am so close to getting the perfect boolit for my gun.

Ola
03-07-2012, 04:54 PM
I think you already know this, but just in case: make sure there is absolutely no jacket metal in the barrel. Some times the copper residue is the reason for that kind of leading. Use solvents that will get it ALL out.
Maybe that all you need to do..

SlowSmokeN
03-07-2012, 06:00 PM
I think you already know this, but just in case: make sure there is absolutely no jacket metal in the barrel. Some times the copper residue is the reason for that kind of leading. Use solvents that will get it ALL out.
Maybe that all you need to do..

Hoppe's #9 is my friend

waksupi
03-07-2012, 09:23 PM
Hoppe's #9 is my friend and his buddy the bush and drill show up to clean things pretty quick. It is amazing how fast things clean up when you hook your cleaning rod to a drill. :drinks:

Give up on telling people that. It is ignorant, and if some one ruins a barrel from lame brained suggestions like that, I hope they hunt you down and give you a little education.

SlowSmokeN
03-08-2012, 12:25 AM
Give up on telling people that. It is ignorant, and if some one ruins a barrel from lame brained suggestions like that, I hope they hunt you down and give you a little education.

I took it out and got your PM. I really had no idea it hurt a barrel. This is to be a site where people can learn. If you are going to be a Mod you should educate not post I hope someone hunts you down.

sig2009
03-08-2012, 12:34 AM
Give up on telling people that. It is ignorant, and if some one ruins a barrel from lame brained suggestions like that, I hope they hunt you down and give you a little education.

I had to do the brush and drill to get the lead out. Chore boy did not work. Brass brush=soft. Barrel =steel=hard. I don't see that having any effect!

waksupi
03-08-2012, 02:13 AM
I had to do the brush and drill to get the lead out. Chore boy did not work. Brass brush=soft. Barrel =steel=hard. I don't see that having any effect!

Go ahead and ruin your barrel then. Knock yourself out.

Ola
03-08-2012, 03:47 AM
Have you guys tried this?
http://www.gunslick.com/

Here that stuff is known as Forrest foam or Mil foam (made in Finland). The Gunslick is made in USA, I think, but it is exactly the same. You just spray the foam in the barrel and wait for a while. Then couple of soft patches and the barrel is clean. The foam reacts with the copper but doesn't harm steel in any way. It contains no ammonia, so it is not toxic or smell so bad.

We've been using it more than ten years and the only problem is that some times you have to do it couple of times and/or wait longer.

Josh Smith
03-08-2012, 04:12 AM
Hello,

I will do that in milsurps that are not shootable due to rust.

It sometimes works and sometimes erases what is left of the rifling.

I only do this when all other options have been tried and never do it on a regular basis after the rifle is able to be shot.

The primary danger is not in erasing the lands in a good bore. What will happen is you'll score the barrel and leading will become progressively worse due to a rough bore.

You do also risk rounding the lands, but more from sweeping lead up against them than anything.

Don't do it, man.

Just my 2 cents.

Josh

SlowSmokeN
03-08-2012, 02:43 PM
Hello,

I will do that in milsurps that are not shootable due to rust.

It sometimes works and sometimes erases what is left of the rifling.

I only do this when all other options have been tried and never do it on a regular basis after the rifle is able to be shot.

The primary danger is not in erasing the lands in a good bore. What will happen is you'll score the barrel and leading will become progressively worse due to a rough bore.

You do also risk rounding the lands, but more from sweeping lead up against them than anything.

Don't do it, man.

Just my 2 cents.

Josh


Appreciate the advice. As a kid when the guys would get back from dove hunting, I would see them hook a drill to their brush and clean their shotguns. That was basically my only experience around cleaning guns.

When I got lead in my barrel last week from having to small of a boolit and elbow grease was slow going it hit me, grab the drill. It worked great, but in my ignorance I may have screwed my barrel. Here is hooping one time didn't do damage.

Once I get the right size boolit, I won't have a leading problem.

Thanks