Shipping outside the US. Seller Warning.

[Zbench]

You are smart to waive off of ANY international shipment. Unless you have an export license from the State Department, you can't legally ship ANY articles that COULD be used to wage war. I too was once ignorant of the export laws, that is until a fateful day last year when two ICE agents arrived at my home asking questions about why I shipped 20 pounds of .40SW brass to Lithuania without said license.

Fortunately, I got by with a warning. It didn't hurt that I owned a shooting range and the agents were interested in stopping by to shoot when they were off duty. Take it from me, if you ship brass outside of these United States, and your package is opened, you too will get a visit from Homeland Security.


Getting off the soap box now, but be very careful.

Pete

For those who might be interested, see Cat III below:

§ 121.1 -- General. The United States munitions list.
(a) The following articles, services and related technical data are designated as defense articles and defense services pursuant to sections 38 and 47(7) of the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2778 and 2794(7)). Changes in designations will be published in the Federal Register. Information and clarifications on whether specific items are defense articles and services under this subchapter may appear periodically in the Defense Trade News published by the Center for Defense Trade.

(b) Significant military equipment: An asterisk precedes certain defense articles in the following list. The asterisk means that the article is deemed to be "significant military equipment" to the extent specified in § 120.19. The asterisk is placed as a convenience to help identify such articles.

(c) Certain items in the following list are placed in brackets. The brackets mean that the item is (1) scheduled to be moved to the licensing jurisdiction of the Department of Commerce upon establishment of a foreign policy control or (2) in the case of spacecraft and related equipment, the item is under review by an interagency space technical working group. The interagency review will result in a recommendation as to whether an item should be moved to the jurisdiction of the Department of Commerce or to USML category XV which was established for this purpose.

(d) Missile Technology Control Regime Annex (MTCR). Certain defense articles and services are identified in § 121.16 as being on the list of MTCR Annex items on the United States Munitions List. These are articles as specified in § 120.29 of this subchapter and appear on the list at § 121.16.

Category I-Firearms
*(a) Nonautomatic, semi-automatic and fully automatic firearms to caliber .50 inclusive, and all components and parts for such firearms. (See § 121.9 and §§ 123.16-123.19 of this subchapter.)

(b) Riflescopes manufactured to military specifications, and specifically designed or modified components therefor; firearm silencers and suppressors, including flash suppressors.

*(c) Insurgency-counterinsurgency type firearms or other weapons having a special military application (e.g. close assault weapons systems) regardless of caliber and all components and parts therefor.

(d) Technical data (as defined in § 120.21 of this subchapter) and defense services (as defined in § 120.8 of this subchapter) directly related to the defense articles enumerated in paragraphs (a) through (c) of this category. (See § 125.4 of this subchapter for exemptions.) Technical data directly related to the manufacture or production of any defense articles enumerated elsewhere in this category that are designated as Significant Military Equipment (SME) shall itself be designated SME.

Category II-Artillery Projectors
*(a) Guns over caliber .50, howitzers, mortars, and recoilless rifles.

*(b) Military flamethrowers and projectors.

(c) Components, parts, accessories and attachments for the articles in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this category, including but not limited to mounts and carriages for these articles.

(d) Technical data (as defined in 120.21 of this subchapter) and defense services (as defined in § 120.8 of this subchapter) directly related to the defense articles enumerated in paragraphs (a) through (c) of this category. (See § 125.4 of this subchapter for exemptions.) Technical data directly related to the manufacture or production of any defense articles enumerated elsewhere in this category that are designated as Significant Military Equipment (SME) shall itself be designated SME.

Category III-Ammunition
*(a) Ammunition for the arms in Categories I and II of this section. (See § 121.6.)

(b) Components, parts, accessories, and attachments for articles in paragraph (a) of this category, including but not limited to cartridge cases, powder bags, bullets, jackets, cores, shells (excluding shotgun shells), projectiles, boosters, fuzes and components therefor, primers, and other detonating devices for such ammunition. (See § 121.6.)

(c) Ammunition belting and linking machines.

*(d) Ammunition manufacturing machines and ammunition loading machines (except handloading ones).

(e) Technical data (as defined in § 120.21 of this subchapter) and defense services (as defined in § 120.8 of this subchapter) directly related to the defense articles enumerated in paragraphs (a) through (d) of this category. (See § 125.4 of this subchapter for exemptions.) Technical data directly related to the manufacture or production of any defense articles enumerated elsewhere in this category that are designated as Significant Military Equipment (SME) shall itself be designated SME.

[SciFiJim]

Molds would come under IIId "(except handloading ones)". It looks like group buys for molds are still OK.

[milsurp mike]

Thx for the Info.I read this Yesterday before it was a Sticky and realized I had an order waiting a Money Order.Order was cancalled last night.Thx Again Mike

[DukeInFlorida]

I've also had some guys in Canada want me to ship 50 BMG brass to them.

No sir, not gonna do it!

[kodiak1]

Zbench
Good post hope you folks can get that law amended a little after you change out your government next election.
Some of the stuff on there is down right pathetic.

Ken

[patsher]

You sure got THAT right!

Pat

[HDS]

You are smart to waive off of ANY international shipment. Unless you have an export license from the State Department, you can't legally ship ANY articles that COULD be used to wage war. I too was once ignorant of the export laws, that is until a fateful day last year when two ICE agents arrived at my home asking questions about why I shipped 20 pounds of .40SW brass to Lithuania without said license.

Fortunately, I got by with a warning. It didn't hurt that I owned a shooting range and the agents were interested in stopping by to shoot when they were off duty. Take it from me, if you ship brass outside of these United States, and your package is opened, you too will get a visit from Homeland Security.


Getting off the soap box now, but be very careful.

So much for free trade...

[Tallyman]

Sure am glad you posted this warning!! Does this also apply to the Chinese, Iranians and other foreign nationals stealing our technology and nuclear secrets to produce their own weapons? I hope Hillary is checking into this and complaining to the UN about it!

[Katya Mullethov]

Dont sweat the - International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR)
Just tell em you're gonna "Take down a cartel" . :Fire:

[MikeS]

I wonder in the excemption IIId if a progressive press is considered handloading, or manufacturing ammo? I also further wonder if they can say a brick of lead qualifies if the sale happens either here, or on gunbroker, or even eBay when the lead is in the Molds section, so the seller has reason to believe the lead in question is going to be used to manufacture bullets? Sort of like how if you have a baseball bat in your car, and it's the only baseball related item in the car it's considered a weapon, but if there's also a catcher's mitt in the car, then it's sporting equipment. You know, just once I would love to see a law that actually makes sense!

[Alvarez Kelly]

I wonder in the excemption IIId if a progressive press is considered handloading, or manufacturing ammo? I also further wonder if they can say a brick of lead qualifies if the sale happens either here, or on gunbroker, or even eBay when the lead is in the Molds section, so the seller has reason to believe the lead in question is going to be used to manufacture bullets? Sort of like how if you have a baseball bat in your car, and it's the only baseball related item in the car it's considered a weapon, but if there's also a catcher's mitt in the car, then it's sporting equipment. You know, just once I would love to see a law that actually makes sense!
Dillon does not offer power units for their machines because if they did, they could NOT ship overseas without lots of hassles. Their progressive machines are all manually operated, "hobby" machines. And that's the way they want to keep it. Once you add power, the whole game changes.

Or so I've been told...

[DukeInFlorida]

http://www.starlinebrass.com/shipping_info.php

If the manufacturers don't because of export laws, we shouldn't either.

I would think Ken should make it a new policy that sales of export license items outside of the USA are not allowed here. I know that has a negative effect, but why allow folks, and perhaps this forum to get into trouble?

[Red River Rick]

Where does it say that maufacturer's can't export?

RRR

[DukeInFlorida]

What it says is that an EXPORT ***LICENSE*** is required.
That's not just for manufacturers.

Starline has decided to NOT spend the $$$ for the license. I personally will follow suit, and not send anything that Homeland Security would frown on outside of the borders.

[HDS]

The import license for a company is from what I know, not expensive and applies for the whole companys product. This adds your companys product to the DDTC list and being on that your products can now be legally exported as long as their value is less than 100 per shipment.

This is how Brownells operates and there are so many companies on the list from large to small that often I think that the companies that aren't on it don't know about it or find even that effort too much. It also allows others (brownells) to sell ones products for you.

Brass might be different I dunno. It's insane though and has gotten worse since 2001.

[Whistler]

It has gotten worse since 2010 even.
I buy all my brass, molds and dies through US forums and German auction sites.

The question I used to get was "Is it legal to receive gun related items in your country?"
Now its more like "Sorry, I'm not allowed to ship that outside the US".

The funny thing is that almost every single item related to firearms (brass, dies, presses) is made in the US. Its a large country of course, but I do believe the "rest of the world" is bigger. There should be statistics available how much is exported and how much is kept inside the US.

[HDS]

At least reloading equipment such as molds, presses, dies is yet to be affected as they are not gun parts or are mounted on guns.

I hope I didn't just jinx it, though I can't see a possible justification for it (then again I can't see any for the current rules either), do they think the taliban are gonna order a Dillon 1050 and start producing ammo in a cave or something?

It's beyond ridiculous at this stage, I am now in a position where it would be easier for me to acquire a permit and buy an AK-47 legally with permits and all, than I got any chance of buying a Classic/DX front sight for my 629 from the US...

[sh00ter787]

I am in the UK, I buy from companies in the states whenever I can. Tbh a company that will send to the UK I will support whenever possible (Brownells, although they use UPS are a last resort, Springfield Armoury are fantastic).

I have had companies refuse to ship mundane items such as stripper clips to the UK - very frustrating!
So this thread is saying that I can't get a scope or a flash suppressor from the US? What about magazines? Saiga 12 drum magazines are running at $500 plus over here, MD arms sell them for $90 each.... You get the idea of why we want to buy direct from the US?

[jpatm2]

So this thread is saying that I can't get a scope or a flash suppressor from the US? What about magazines? Saiga 12 drum magazines are running at $500 plus over here, MD arms sell them for $90 each.... You get the idea of why we want to buy direct from the US?

It just means that a company has to get a license to ship the products to you. I inquired about it and if I remember correctly, it cost upwards of $800. Not feasable for someone selling some brass they picked up at the range, but inline with what a distributer would be willing to do.

[jpatm2]

I would think Ken should make it a new policy that sales of export license items outside of the USA are not allowed here.

Why would you prohibit the sales if the seller wished to go the legal route? I believe this sticky is enough, because the seller should be trying to find out the legalities anyway. This thread will allow them to make their own decision.

[Zbench]

Guys,

The law is pretty straight forward. If the item can be used to make war, and is on the export ban list, it's not legal to ship it without a license. You certainly can get an export license and pay the fee, and deal with the associated reporting, you can refuse to ship OR you can just ignore it and risk getting arrested. Those are your choices.

Stuff like scopes and optics, rings, laser rangefinders, magazines, gun parts, stripper clips, flash suppressors and just about anthing else related to firearms is definitely included. Proceed at your own risk.

Pete

[blaser.306]

In a large percent of cases it does not matter what is or is not on "the list" as many members make up the regs as they go along. If anything , a clear cut itemization would be needed to help people make an informed decision . Even large co's have a hard time deciding on what is and is not "exportable"Large major sporting goods suppliers differ greatly on similar if not identical part #'s. And if they with large legal dept's cannot come to a clear answer , how can the average individual! Hopefully the laws can be (if not changed) amended after your next election to at very least exibit a small amount of , wait for it (common sense )!!!

[HDS]

Guys,

The law is pretty straight forward. If the item can be used to make war, and is on the export ban list, it's not legal to ship it without a license. You certainly can get an export license and pay the fee, and deal with the associated reporting, you can refuse to ship OR you can just ignore it and risk getting arrested. Those are your choices.

Stuff like scopes and optics, rings, laser rangefinders, magazines, gun parts, stripper clips, flash suppressors and just about anthing else related to firearms is definitely included. Proceed at your own risk.

Pete

It can help if you ask brownells for their DDTC list, its a word doc and if the maker of the part is on it, the value is <100$ , and its not a strictly forbidden item (suppressors, flash hiders, frames, cylinders, actions) then it should be okay. Like say a sear from Cylinder & SLide, or a 1911 magazine by Chip McCormick (okay if less than 10 rounds).

[Zbench]

I like how the people who live abroad and are not US citizens seek to educate those of us who are US citizens on what the law is. If you care, the entire ban list is located here. (http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf)

If you read catagory III closely, it spefically talks about everything we use here on Cast Boolits. It does say that this category does not include "hand" reloading equipment. Wether moulds are reloading equipment or rather "Equipment or tooling specifically designed or modified for the articles controlled in this category" is open to debate.

You will also notice there is NO $100 or less limit. The idea is to not allow things that can make war to leave the country without the appropriate permit. It has nothing to do with taxes or money. So, either educate yourself on the law which is posted above, or just stop commenting on stuff which you have no idea about.

In case you didn't know, Finland and Canada are foreign countries and subject to the export law requirement.

Hope this clears it up.

Pete

[HDS]

I like how the people who live abroad and are not US citizens seek to educate those of us who are US citizens on what the law is. If you care, the entire ban list is located here. (http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf)

Being a US citizen does not automatically make you more informed on this matter and that's a ridiculous argument to even make.




If you read catagory III closely, it spefically talks about everything we use here on Cast Boolits. It does say that this category does not include "hand" reloading equipment. Wether moulds are reloading equipment or rather "Equipment or tooling specifically designed or modified for the articles controlled in this category" is open to debate.

You will also notice there is NO $100 or less limit. The idea is to not allow things that can make war to leave the country without the appropriate permit. It has nothing to do with taxes or money. So, either educate yourself on the law which is posted above, or just stop commenting on stuff which you have no idea about.

In case you didn't know, Finland and Canada are foreign countries and subject to the export law requirement.

Hope this clears it up.

Pete

ITAR parts always require a permit, I have gone through it before and exported AR-15s from the US successfully. But, you are now talking about apples while I am talking oranges here, so why don't you simmer down a bit?

The parts I mentioned as examples where not ITAR regulated as little as 6 months ago (if not evident by interpretation of the law, then by precedent, see brownells, numrich, midway). There can be difficulty for a private seller in assessing if a part is ITAR regulated or not however and in that case its best to just leave it be. Brass is certainly a thing you cannot export anymore without a permit for instance as well as the parts on the list you just made.

Though as I said, magazines with a capacity of less than 10 rounds have not been considered parts for making war, likewise that sear I ordered. I could not order a flash hider though, or a suppressor, or a scope (and some scopes are ITAR, others are not, but even non ITAR scopes require a permit, which is free to acquire though).

But if you are so certain of your correctness in this matter, maybe you would like to go and ring up Brownells (and Numrich too) and tell them they are violating the law on a daily basis and that their lawyers have gotten this whole thing all wrong. It would appear I and them broke the law a few months ago when I bought a bunch of 8rd magazines for my 1911 from them without any export permits at all.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/general/international_sales.aspx

EDIT: If I am wrong then I humbly beg forgiveness

[Zbench]

HDS,

The point I am trying to make, is, that the list is whatever our government says it is. It is vague enough that it could be covered, or not covered. As the vast majority of the folks on the board are US Citizens being asked to ship items abroad, and not the other way around, all the RISK in these matters falls to the SHIPPER, not the person receiving the shipment.

Add to that all this stuff about non-commercial use, under $100, etc which is all bunk, and you can see the problem. To your point, it is not illegal to ship gun parts abroad if you have the proper permit. I'm sure if you are Brownell's, they have the proper permit. That doesn't mean, that just because Brownell's can ship something, it's ok for anyone else to do it.

My intent in starting this thread was not to split hairs on what was covered, but to alert the masses here that if you just pretend that it's ok, you might get bit. If you get bit, it might have consequences.

[HDS]

I am sorry to be pedantic and while I agree with you in the overall scope that it's best for a private seller to not start mucking about with things he is not 100% clear on, I have to keep insisting that the 100 dollar limit actually exists. I do not consider this splitting hairs, just putting forward the facts and letting people decide, the waters are murky.

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title22/22-1.0.1.13.61.0.34.17.html

§ 123.17 Exports of firearms and ammunition.
(a) Except as provided in §126.1 of this subchapter, Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit the export without a license of components and parts for Category I(a) firearms, except barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames) or complete breech mechanisms when the total value does not exceed $100 wholesale in any transaction.

The hardest part for a private seller is determening if the part can be sold or not, infact this might be impossible for a person to determine without access to a comprehensible database and legal team like Brownells.

[DukeInFlorida]

One thing is true:

Best not to give Homeland Security and the ATF any reason to come knocking on your door, and threaten to take away your guns just because you thought that you could sell $50 worth of brass to someone overseas. You will not win THEIR argument.

Not worth it in my book. Not worth it.

[BAGTIC]

Show them your 'Fast and Furious' I.D. card. That should get you a pass.

[milsurp mike]

There is still a Member here from another country who is trying to get me to sell him Brass.I have refuse His offer on several occasions.Be careful with these guys.Mike

[Tallyman]

Anyone who has asked the BATF how many guns one can buy and sell in a given period, without needing an FFL, can surely understand the vagueness of US laws designed to trap citizens of pure intent.

In the 1960s I had an ATF agent confiscate a small black powder cannon I was selling at a gun show because (he said) it was a non-handgun, concealable weapon and illegal under the National Firearms Act.

But it would seem to me that if I shipped an imported Chinese manufactured scope to a friend in Australia, it would not come under these regulations. However. . . . . . . . . ??



HDS,

The point I am trying to make, is, that the list is whatever our government says it is. It is vague enough that it could be covered, or not covered. As the vast majority of the folks on the board are US Citizens being asked to ship items abroad, and not the other way around, all the RISK in these matters falls to the SHIPPER, not the person receiving the shipment.

Add to that all this stuff about non-commercial use, under $100, etc which is all bunk, and you can see the problem. To your point, it is not illegal to ship gun parts abroad if you have the proper permit. I'm sure if you are Brownell's, they have the proper permit. That doesn't mean, that just because Brownell's can ship something, it's ok for anyone else to do it.

My intent in starting this thread was not to split hairs on what was covered, but to alert the masses here that if you just pretend that it's ok, you might get bit. If you get bit, it might have consequences.

[z4lunch]

Year an a half ago I tried to sell a Guy in Finland a March 50X rifle scope.
He paypal'd me and off we go... I shipped it through the mail, bout a month went by and he was getting nervous that I screwed him... Not only did he file a non receipt of an item with paypal, I got an 8 plus page letter from US Customs and Border Patrol on 610 S Canal street in Chicago IL. The short of the 2plus month process to get my scope back, was a detailed letter what I was trying to do, a $250 fine paid by me, a prepaid Priority mail label addressed back to me, oh and the letter I wrote had to be notarized ,and one of the docs I had to sign basically said I wouldn't sue them. When the scope showed I had to send a return doc that I received the scope back... I am so dun with this sticky and all the posts, I cant even believe you guy's would even consider sending something over seas...I will never send anything out of the US again. My lesson only cost me $300 ish and lots of stress. It could have cost me the back side of $3000 if the scope never showed back up... Don't walk run when a euro wants you to ship something overseas.
my 2 cents
Steve

[Tallyman]

Year an a half ago I tried to sell a Guy in Finland a March 50X rifle scope.
He paypal'd me and off we go... I shipped it through the mail, bout a month went by and he was getting nervous that I screwed him... Not only did he file a non receipt of an item with paypal, I got an 8 plus page letter from US Customs and Border Patrol on 610 S Canal street in Chicago IL. The short of the 2plus month process to get my scope back, was a detailed letter what I was trying to do, a $250 fine paid by me, a prepaid Priority mail label addressed back to me, oh and the letter I wrote had to be notarized ,and one of the docs I had to sign basically said I wouldn't sue them. When the scope showed I had to send a return doc that I received the scope back... I am so dun with this sticky and all the posts, I cant even believe you guy's would even consider sending something over seas...I will never send anything out of the US again. My lesson only cost me $300 ish and lots of stress. It could have cost me the back side of $3000 if the scope never showed back up... Don't walk run when a euro wants you to ship something overseas.
my 2 cents
Steve


Are March scopes US made or foreign?

[z4lunch]

March scopes are made in Japan

[HDS]

That's hilarious, can't ship a scope made in japan outside the US... because terrorists?

[Whistler]

I've even had trouble buying things made in Sweden from the US.
It is strange, we make the product, export it to the US and cannot import it back because of US terrorist regulations. Make you cringe.
You would be amazed of the amount of modern utilities and supplies that you guys use daily in the US that are made in the nordic countries (Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway). How many of you own a Husqvarna chainsaw or lawn mower for example? I've had an American fellow at a dinner say it was one of the best American brands he knew. Guess what, this dinner was in my home town, 5 miles from our suburb Husqvarna were this stuff is made.

Back to topic... Why would you go about reimporting? Price and availability of course. Stuff that cost $200 in the US cost $5-600 in Sweden. Buying the same item second hand for $150 saves you $450 on one single item. Of course we "try" to buy, but I am really tired of the rude remarks and replies us "foreigners" get from some of the members on this site. Some of us try to keep an eye on current export/import regulations, but a lot of time the seller is the one who's ignorant and it does not feel very friendly to be accused of trying to coerce the seller into crime and especially not because of "terrorist" actions.

I'll stick to group buys only from now on. I'm tired of the attitude in Swappin & Sellin. I will stop to offer stuff for sale, but knowing myself I will probably not be able to pass up a good deal should I find a friendly seller who's read up on the "export list of the day".

Scopes of non military application have been released from regulation, just so you know, free to export/import just as you like.

[milsurp mike]

I agree With some of the other people who posted,I want be selling and shipping anything outside of the US.I don't like doing this but I think it will save me alot of trouble in the Future.Mike.

[Tallyman]

[/QUOTE] Scopes of non military application have been released from regulation, just so you know, free to export/import just as you like.[/QUOTE]

Need to know. . .where did you find this information - and how is a non-military scope defined?

[Whistler]

This came from theopticzone.com in January 2012:


The US Government has a new policy for exporting Riflescopes to Sweden. Below are the conditions that must be agreed too, so an export license is not required under STA in 740.20.

Conditions:

1. A [whatever sight you decide to order], under ECCN 0A987, will be shipped pursuant to License Exception Strategic Trade Authorization (STA) in §740.20 of the United States Export Administration Regulations (15 CFR 740.20)

2. The ECCN number has been informed in the above condition to [your name here] by TheOpticZone.com.

3. Consignee, [your name here], agrees that the above item shipped pursuant to License Exception STA may not subsequently be reexported pursuant to paragraphs (a) or (b) of License Exception APR (15 CFR 740.16(a) or (b)).

4. Consignee agrees not to export, reexport or transfer this item/items to any destination, use or user prohibited by the United States Export Administration Regulations.

5. Consignee agrees to provide copies of this document and all other export, reexport or transfer records relevant to the items referenced in this statement to the U.S. Government as set forth in 15 CFR 762.7.

If you agree to the conditions above, we can ship the order out to you without applying for an export license with the US Government.

It is also possible to get a cost free export permit for certain items for private sellers on eBay etc (should also apply to Castboolits).

[SciFiJim]

It is also possible to get a cost free export permit for certain items for private sellers on eBay etc (should also apply to Castboolits).

I would like more info on this. If you can point to a link I would appreciate it.

[M.A.D]

Presses, Reloading dies, Swaging dies, Bullet molds, Non military spec optics are all fine for export.... But cases, projectiles, jackets, primers, mil spec optics, major components all require a permit... Mind you, some savvy American could make a nice easy $5000 a week business for a low cost off $2750 for the license and only charge the 3% of good plus post and a $100 transaction fee... Hint anyone....

[quasi]

FYI to all the "Foreigners" shipping products from Canada to other countries is perfectly legal. Things are not as cheap here as the US generally, but they are still much cheaper than most of the world.

[taminsong]

"FYI to all the "Foreigners" shipping products from Canada to other countries is perfectly legal. Things are not as cheap here as the US generally, but they are still much cheaper than most of the world."

Yeah, I think that would be a better idea. I still want to buy from the members here because I owe this site a lot. But it seems I could be branded as a Muslim terrorist or supporting the terrorist because I'm buying pistol brass! :D

[Red River Rick]

FYI, shotshell componets are exempted..............they are legal to export. Including brass shotgun shells.

RRR

[Hamish]

Regarding declaration of value for international shipment, I made the mistake of listing replacement cost in case of loss of the package, instead of an actual lowball estimation of value, which resulted in the receiver paying heavy Duty cost.

[HDS]

This is an article on the effects of ITAR, you might all want to read it as it affects not only us foreigners, it also affects you and american companies and is set to only get worse in the long run:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20VYXOOQPQ0bFE1NHZMN1JtV1E/edit?pli=1#

[Texinoz]

Guys, just a little balance here, others have correctly listed non-permitted exports such as loaded ammo, some brass, major firearms components - actions and barrels esp - but there are several exemptions, such as non critical parts and shipments under $100 total value. There are also much less issues with shipping to ALLIES such as Australia. For us in OZ, the problem is import restrictions more than export out of the USA. I'm sure NONE of you would export to the middle east and certain other countries regardless...

[kend]

It just means that a company has to get a license to ship the products to you. I inquired about it and if I remember correctly, it cost upwards of $800.

$2250 per year.

[johnnybar]

$2250 per year.

That's why the requests from New Zealand, Australia, Italy, Canada and a few others, gets the "Sorry, USA only" message on this seeming harmless Mosin rifle part:
61562
It's a 3/4" tall front sight post that solves the high point of impact issues that many Mosins have.

[paulezo]

What about rubber grips for a revolver? Hogue doesn't sell their X-frame grips directly, they are available just in S&W online store (which doesn't ship outside U.S.).

Do you think my aunt who lives in the U.S. would have any problems if she forwarded the rubber grip to me? (EU)

Thanks.

[primersp]

i don't think they have any problem, for us only for the barrel,slide ,frame,magazine the customs may be nervous.

[paulezo]

merci, I think the same, nobody is going to start a war with rubber grip :) but one never knows what can be included in the list of gun parts.

[khmer6]

i had someone ask me to ship brass to europe today, nooooo way. not risking my freedom. i noticed that recoil springs are classified as "munitions" and will not be shipped internationally. strange

[johnnybar]

i had someone ask me to ship brass to europe today, nooooo way. not risking my freedom. i noticed that recoil springs are classified as "munitions" and will not be shipped internationally. strange

Part of a weapon system that can be used to wage war. Same as a front sight, that I posted. A can of wood finish, for example, is not critical to the operation of a weapon. But lube, made specifically for a weapon system, would make me pucker if asked to send outside the 50.

[paulezo]

I see ... IMO generally what is not available for international transport in online stores shouldn't be sent by an individual either. It seems so to me.

[EDG]

Whistler,
Can you explain the factors that result in a locally produced item in Sweden having such an inflated cost compared to the same item that has to be shipped trans-Alantic before it can be markets at a much lower cost in the US. Do you have ad valorum taxes, excessive retail marketing costs or what that creates such difference between the actual cost to manufacture and the purchase price. The reason I ask I once worked as a value engineer. I can accurately estimate the cost to manufacture any product so it is easy to attack a company's selling cost when it is inflated with excessive markup.





I've even had trouble buying things made in Sweden from the US.
It is strange, we make the product, export it to the US and cannot import it back because of US terrorist regulations. Make you cringe.
You would be amazed of the amount of modern utilities and supplies that you guys use daily in the US that are made in the nordic countries (Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway). How many of you own a Husqvarna chainsaw or lawn mower for example? I've had an American fellow at a dinner say it was one of the best American brands he knew. Guess what, this dinner was in my home town, 5 miles from our suburb Husqvarna were this stuff is made.

Back to topic... Why would you go about reimporting? Price and availability of course. Stuff that cost $200 in the US cost $5-600 in Sweden. Buying the same item second hand for $150 saves you $450 on one single item. Of course we "try" to buy, but I am really tired of the rude remarks and replies us "foreigners" get from some of the members on this site. Some of us try to keep an eye on current export/import regulations, but a lot of time the seller is the one who's ignorant and it does not feel very friendly to be accused of trying to coerce the seller into crime and especially not because of "terrorist" actions.

I'll stick to group buys only from now on. I'm tired of the attitude in Swappin & Sellin. I will stop to offer stuff for sale, but knowing myself I will probably not be able to pass up a good deal should I find a friendly seller who's read up on the "export list of the day".

Scopes of non military application have been released from regulation, just so you know, free to export/import just as you like.

[primersp]

not for the springs ,order to WOLF this month just for outside you must have less than 100 us and more than 22 , shipping is 19
i have take an set for an s&w 5906 and some others , came in 2 weeks ,nothing from the customs.

[Wal']

Most company's in America will sell outside of the USofA, its just the ill-informed ones that refuse to.

Its especially galling when sellers refuse sales expounding the terrorist security risk of selling internationally when our own troops are standing alongside your own & have been for many decades .

Enough said!

[froggy]

Interresting discussion!, I love the phrase ”used to wage war”! If you know your history, maybe it should be the other way around? Maybe the rest of the world should put restrictions on US import instead of export?
Just a mind opener…

Anyway, in my humble opinion, our community is served best by keeping the market as global as possible, still of course within the legal limits! I think that we have some good contributions from the European side as well, and I know for a fact that I don’t want to be without parts and supplies from some US companies.

I just think that we shouldn't limit trade more than necessary from a legal perspective!

[charger 1]

So much for free trade...

Oh its ok if we wanta send down a donation though. The gate valve is still open that direction. Actually even if you don't want to you may find it come off your C card

[wallacem]

Great to know, but remember, you CAN ship any of this stuff to a FFL dealer that DOES make the practice of exporting. They, in return ship it to whoever is buying it. That process is legal for us to do. There are several companies that specialize in that. Just make sure you do it legal.

[Speedo66]

Double post

[Speedo66]

Whistler,
Can you explain the factors that result in a locally produced item in Sweden having such an inflated cost compared to the same item that has to be shipped trans-Alantic before it can be markets at a much lower cost in the US. Do you have ad valorum taxes, excessive retail marketing costs or what that creates such difference between the actual cost to manufacture and the purchase price. The reason I ask I once worked as a value engineer. I can accurately estimate the cost to manufacture any product so it is easy to attack a company's selling cost when it is inflated with excessive markup.

Not Whistler, but I have spent a bit of time in Sweden, married to a Swede.

Sweden = Taxes. They have a heavy tax which used to be called MOMS. Now, as an EU member it's called VAT (value added tax).

A product gets additional tax added every step up the manufacturing process. Ore to steel to rifle, tax added at each step.

Sweden has a wonderful system of health, education, pensions, etc., most of which are free, or close to it, for the recipients.

College is free! They also give each newborn child a quarterly stipend to the parents.

Guess how all these wonderful things get paid for? VAT, and heavy "sin" taxes. Gas, cigarettes, alcohol are all heavily taxed.

I remember at one time it was cheaper to buy a Volvo in the US than in Sweden, where they're produced. Still may be. Denmark has a 100% tax on imported automobiles, and I don't think they produce any there. Essentially, you buy one for you, you buy one for the gov't.

So when someone from Sweden is looking for something here, it's probably to try and beat the high domestic (tax) costs.

[mactool]

Denmark has a 100% tax on imported automobiles, and I don't think they produce any there..

Actually its 105% of the first $13800, and 180% of the rest, and to that total you add 25% VAT
Beee Happy:lol:

[Milsurp Junkie]

Anyone know if it is legal to have brass shipped INTO the US?

[yooper]

I make it a rule of NEVER EVER shipping ANYTHING outside the US. Maybe I'm a coward, but I don't want to bother learning the laws of International Trade or involve myself with any of that ****. If you want to buy what I'm selling you'd better be in the US of A or you are out of luck. Just too many possible problems IMHO.
yooper

[TES]

I make it a rule of NEVER EVER shipping ANYTHING outside the US. Maybe I'm a coward, but I don't want to bother learning the laws of International Trade or involve myself with any of that ****. If you want to buy what I'm selling you'd better be in the US of A or you are out of luck. Just too many possible problems IMHO.
yooper

It does not matter if you ship anything. If you are involved as a business and its listed in the ITAR guidelines and it is for profit you must pay the tax $2250.00. This includes every component involved in ammo and firearms. I have read else where that at one time there was a way to file for exemption but now there is no chance. I just spoke with DOD yesterday and confirmed what I was told.

[Wal']

Thankfully the many sellers I've bought from don't live in a selective world like some of you, have had many happy transactions from the USofA & made a lot of new friends as well.

[d_man2]

This is nothing against American people at all, I have many American friends and colleagues. The ITAR rules are an absolute joke when shipping to Canada. It is funny how an item which is totally made in Canada such as an Elcan scope and can be freely sold anywhere, as soon as it goes south of the Canadian border it then falls under ITAR rules and can never come back to Canada! Same goes for night vision equipment....impossible to import from the US but hey, they make it here in Canada, I just wish we could get the same prices as in the States. Us Canadians just shake our heads on some of this stuff and wonder who these law makers are trying to protect the USA from?

[carbine86]

Also for flat rate boxes if you go one the usps website and pay for the shipping there it will save you 10 percent on the shipping cost 58 cents alone on the sfrb

[ruizhernandeztrust]

Thanks for the warning.

[JohnFreeman]

Sweden has a wonderful system of health, education, pensions, etc., most of which are free, or close to it, for the recipients.

College is free! They also give each newborn child a quarterly stipend to the parents.

Guess how all these wonderful things get paid for".

They steal the money from someone else in Sweden.

Nothing is free.

Someone should tell the feds to guard the borders and keep their nose out of my packages. Just don't put a return address on it and you're good .

That is all!
John 8-)

[reader]

Yes, the reasoning for these regulations is a joke. I live outside US too, and for example I could not buy scope rings for my Ruger SRH. After a long search, I found them then from other country. A German manufacturer for revolver speedloaders got a new customer of me, too. However, I still buy most of gun related stuff from US.

I very well understand that all this is tough anti-gun politics. Very effective. I am sure many small business would make significant intl. sales otherwise. How about US trade deficit. This regulation raises prices for us and makes harder to buy things, not to mention guns. Eventually they are banning more and more, little by little.

[Wag]

It sounds to me like if you learned to do it right, you could make a very good business out of it.

--Wag--

[DRNurse1]

:dung_hits_fan:
Sure am glad you posted this warning!! Does this also apply to the Chinese, Iranians and other foreign nationals stealing our technology and nuclear secrets to produce their own weapons? I hope Hillary is checking into this and complaining to the UN about it!

:kidding: Too late, she is a civilian now....Hey, can we try her for treason yet?

[thompsonm1a1]

I have some brass to sell and would like to sell it to the usa. is this possible without getting in trouble with the jokers at homeland security?

[Avery Arms]

It is illegal to import brass or any other item on the US munitions import list unless you have a permit for that specific shipment.

About the only thing that is not on that list is tools such as dies or molds. Personally I no longer ship any items to Canada or any other country outside the US because shipping is slow and stuff gets stolen right and left. Naturally buyers blame the seller for shipping or customs delays and expect him to refund anything that doesn't make it through the mail/customs.

[Gert Odendaal]

Not to criticize your country, USA but these new regulations has a negative impact on our rifle owners/gunsmiths in South Africa. It really is not possible to pursue our hobbies regarding rifle building with all the restrictions currently in place. To top it all our own currency is extremely weak so it really is just to expensive to buy from your country any more. Any future rifle building project is not forth coming . Maybe things will change after a few years from now, who knows...:???:

[R.Ph. 380]

Not to criticize your country, USA but these new regulations has a negative impact on our rifle owners/gunsmiths in South Africa. It really is not possible to pursue our hobbies regarding rifle building with all the restrictions currently in place. To top it all our own currency is extremely weak so it really is just to expensive to buy from your country any more. Any future rifle building project is not forth coming . Maybe things will change after a few years from now, who knows...:???:

You don't realize, that's exactly why our president and his toadies in the ATF have promulgated the stricter rules. Just another gun control technique. Just this time, it's against you. Tomorrow it's against us.

Bill

[223]

I just shipped 120 pcs of new 257 Weatherby brass to British Columbia. Went thru Customs without a problem. The postage on the box was $35, but the buyer picked it up. Chuck.

[Avery Arms]

I just shipped 120 pcs of new 257 Weatherby brass to British Columbia. Went thru Customs without a problem. The postage on the box was $35, but the buyer picked it up. Chuck.

This is hardly remarkable if your package contained the required (Canadian) import and (US Dept of state) export licenses. If you just dumped the brass in a box and mailed it then you committed a serious felony crime and shouldn't be discussing it with anyone except perhaps you lawyer.

[womblrup]

Is it legal than to export 10-round mags to europe ???

[Avery Arms]

I've never heard of a country called "europe" but generally speaking it is possible to export under $100 worth of magazines or other small parts.

That said I don't recommend it, you will always get screwed over trying to ship overseas.

[kend]

Is it legal than to export 10-round mags to europe ???

German laws are probably different from those in the US so I would suggest contacting someone that is familiar with the export laws in Germany about that.

[Swede 45]

What country in Europe?
I'm in Sweden , and we have no limitations on hi cap magazines ..
Each country has their own laws and I can only speak for Sweden.

[womblrup]

I live in Germany as stated in Location.

Last year I was looking for a .308 Win semiauto rifle for use in dynamic shooting competitions AND hunting. For typical hunting rifles only 2shot mags are available as required by german law. Mags with 10shot - or if the capacity is higher then blocked to 10shot mags are allowed for sport shooting. But the rifles with more then 2shot mags available usually look too takti-cool and military-style to be accepted by german hunters. Best fit into both worlds and available in Germany was a Molot Vepr Hunter 308, so I got one including 2x 2shot and 1x 10shot mags. Ordered a VX-6 Leupold scope and Burris Zee rings from USA via eBay and got it delivered, taxed and released from german customs without problems.
Ordered 6 more 10shot mags from our german main importer and got the news that already 80 are ordered but only 25 may arrive in Germany this year - maybe - maybe not.
Checked out other options in internet and found an USA-based company named Csspecs producing what I want to buy. Contacted them by email - no answer. Continued searching the internet and found USA export restrictions called ITAR, which applies to about anything helping to shoot a rifle. Found the US$ 100,00 export exception as well (and that Canadiens complained about it successfully in a way that the US$$$-exception limit was set to US$ 500,00 so please do not surrender like Avery Arms seems to do).

My question is: Can a normal US citizen pack 4 mags worth US$ 22,00 each (US$ 88,00 in total) into a box together with a printout of this ITAR exception and ship this parcel to Germany without violating US laws or is there anything else to do like adding the postage fees on top of US$88,00 or reporting the shipment to somebody or is there a licence required for shipment or may there be anything else required by US laws I do not think about???

German import laws are not my concern, if I am in doupt about german laws I can ask lawyers on our shooting range.

[Avery Arms]

I... Found the US$ 100,00 export exception as well (and that Canadiens complained about it successfully in a way that the US$$$-exception limit was set to US$ 500,00 so please do not surrender like Avery Arms seems to do).

My question is: Can a normal US citizen pack 4 mags worth US$ 22,00 each (US$ 88,00 in total) into a box together with a printout of this ITAR exception and ship this parcel to Germany without violating US laws or is there anything else to do like adding the postage fees on top of US$88,00 or reporting the shipment to somebody or is there a licence required for shipment or may there be anything else required by US laws I do not think about???

German import laws are not my concern, if I am in doupt about german laws I can ask lawyers on our shooting range.

Certain "controlled" parts such as barrels and bolts are restricted regardless of value, magazines are not "controlled" parts unless the order is over $100 so yes an ordinary person can just drop them in the mail. I don't believe postage costs are part of the $100 limit but I could not swear to it.

I have "gave up" exporting stuff because in spite of my best efforts my time had been wasted not making money or helping people but rather losing money and creating bitter customers who blamed me for customs/mail issues I had no control over. After paying for several lost/stolen/wrongly confiscated orders out of pocket and getting bad ratings for shipping time because it takes more than 3 days for something to go from Florida to Spain I decided I had enough.

If Canadian/European buyers suddenly wanted to pay double US prices for stuff I would start exporting again but right now there are still plenty of ignorant Americans on ebay etc who will export stuff for cheap so until those people wise up a bit I don't see much of a future in exporting small odds and ends. Pallet loads and container loads sure.

[womblrup]

If Canadian/European buyers suddenly wanted to pay double US prices for stuff I would start exporting again but right now there are still plenty of ignorant Americans on ebay etc who will export stuff for cheap so until those people wise up a bit I don't see much of a future in exporting small odds and ends. Pallet loads and container loads sure.

Hi Avery Arms


Me too could not find anything saying postage fees are part of that US$100,00 limit.

Here is an example of prizing US American stuff in Germany (from my last buy 2014 Dez 08):
Carlsons extended waterfowl choke tube set of 3, prizing on Cabellas is US$ 109,99 compared to MidwayGermany €133,60. Exchange rate estimated US$ 1,35 / €1,00 equals US$ 180,36 or 164%. So we already come close to Your 200%. Delivery time was about 6weeks.

126397
126398

The central reason for all that trouble as I look on it is ITAR export restrictions applied from Your government also against Your "brothers in Arms" NATO states in Europe [smilie=b:. Nobody including us overseas can understand that any more. Even Germany has sent troops to Afganistan prooving that our soldiers do not have proper equipment to be effective ;).


Conclusion: After trying hard to get hold of a few mags for my rifle since about 6 months I am one little step further. I have found a legal way how I could get access to the US market as mentioned above. Maybe the Russians deliver earlier - lets see who´s winning the competition of supplying the european market beside our own companies like H&K ...


Just my 2cents.

[Balta]

I have opposit question...
Can you ,in USA ,legely recive -import a rifle magazine from outside of USA? 20 rounder? I know there is yome restrictions regrding mag cap in some counry inside USA

[mogwan]

The problem with ITAR is that the way the multi-part law is written, very few people can understand it. One example is the export of pistol grips. Earlier, under ITAR regs, no one bothered regulating inert parts like grips. Now, it is a known no-no.

With scopes- the ITAR regs were supposed to regulate ONLY scopes that were developed and / or currently manufactured for the US Military (as well as civilian market) like Eotechs, Nightforce, etc. Because of this virtually all scope dealers have decided to avoid problems completely by now refusing to ship any scopes.

Many gun and gun related websites are now blocking access to their websites entirely by 'locking out" various countries IP (Internet Protocol) ranges. your IP number is like your international phone number and the procedure is easy for a network systems guy to do in about two minutes.

I'm a Yank shooter currently living in Australia and i bypass locked out US sites by making my web connection via my VPN (Virtual Private Network) settings so it appears i am residing in USA- not Au. In Au it is illegal to import ALL essential components-barrels, cylinders, slides, MAGAZINES, however we can allegedly import parts like hammers, triggers, springs, guide rods, etc. but i'm sure someone's interpretation of ITAR could change all that.

Regarding the earlier question of postage- traditionally postage is considered a component of the parts so is added into the total cost when receiving parts into a country with an import quota before duty is levied. on US Side, I Dunno if it is part of the $100 cap on exports.

There are -0- spare parts left here in Au since the 1/2 Billion Dollar gun & parts buyback in 2004. However, ALL types of .22lr ammo is available-all you can eat at or near 'old' US prices of about US$18-$30 a brick depending on quality. Plenty of powder like Win 231 but price has doubled since last year. And Winchester has built a factory here for their "White Box' ammo. But dealers kill you on the Hazmat fees a lot worse than USA.

[womblrup]

Hi there

I just wanted to let everybody know: After talking to the russian Molot-guys and our main importer in Germany at IWA Nürnberg 4 of 6 ordered mags have arrived for me. So 1:0 Russia versus USA !!!:-)

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have lived here in Peru 30 years. Never,no NEVER ever ship any gun parts to Peru unless the buyer absolutely knows what is going on down here. Screws, levers or miscellaneous items that could be for any machine are OK. But those obvious gun parts (hammers, barrels, even antique frames) are not getting through customs. Bullet molds the same.
Mike in Peru

[packnrat]

i do not get it? no company or person, could possibly ship that much to any country to even begin to compete to what the United States government ships out to warring and genocide country's.

we as people maybe a couple large boxes.
some companies a couple 40 ft container's.

but the feds ship whole ship loads out.


.

[victorfox]

Missionary: ditto for Brazil.

"Screws, levers or miscellaneous items that could be for any machine are OK. But those obvious gun parts (hammers, barrels, even antique frames) are not getting through customs. Bullet molds the same."

I could get some "unobtainable machine parts", but no, "firearm" or "gun parts" would be a big legal hassle.

Anything gun related should have all the buyers data (like his ID copy, his CR copy (Certificado de Registro or "register certificate" issued by the army, plus the CII copy -- it's the importing permit issued by the army here).

I'm talking only real person, I don't know what the corporations/dealers have to do to import guns, parts etc. In the case of airguns up to 6mm, only the CII is needed.

Usually the buyer sends his scanned papers via email and the seller prints and packs it with the purchased goods. When they arrive, the customs open the box and tax it to 60% of receipt value, plus more annoyances to get the purchased liberated (if all is ok, it goes to the army headquarters of where the buyer lives to be picked there). Usually, it needs a third person, an agent to work all the paperwork in Brazil to get everything released.

After a lot of time and work (and taxes), the buyer may finally enjoy his purchases and post in the forums how he's fortunate to have his CR and how the army should be more restrictive so not anyone can buy what he has...

Missionary, please clarify me (via PM if the MODs think it's off topic, about gun control situation in Peru today. To my limited knowledge, the law went lax in the last few years, or am wrong?)

Thanks!

[sheliniak]

Hello!

Is it legal to export overseas gun parts as a US citizen, when they ARE NOT "cylinders, receivers (frames), or complete breech mechanisms", and the value is not higher than $100?
CFR § 123.17.a.1. found here https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/123.17
Do this person need any registration or paper?
I want to buy used M14 parts, from private person. Is it possible to send it via USPS?

[Rick459]

i know this is a old post but does any one here know if it is legal to ship to canada bullet molds?
Rick

[kodiak1]

Rick Yes you can ship bullet moulds to Canada got 2 last week.
Ken.

[john.k]

Despite prior comments,any appropriately licensed person can import to Australia components ,including barrels,cylinders ,magazines,etc of firearms class for which a license is held,import only requiring a form from the state licensing authority,free in some states,fee in others.Said form being required for release of package from customs.In fact it is a lot easier/quicker to import items than to export similar from either Aus,or US.I might also add that while rifle ammmo is a no export from US,shotgun ammo is ok.No shotgun stuff is controlled by ITAR.All commercial US gun items are available on the market here,imported in bulk by traders,including military type scopes,and semi auto rifles.Yes, thats right,licensed persons can buy s/a rifles.

[lucifers]

Look at the rules on GRAF and Midway. Just follow that.

Pages and pages to say: keep your business in the USA !

[SciFiJim]

Despite prior comments,any appropriately licensed person can import to Australia components ,including barrels,cylinders ,magazines,etc of firearms class for which a license is held,import only requiring a form from the state licensing authority,free in some states,fee in others.Said form being required for release of package from customs.In fact it is a lot easier/quicker to import items than to export similar from either Aus,or US.I might also add that while rifle ammmo is a no export from US,shotgun ammo is ok.No shotgun stuff is controlled by ITAR.All commercial US gun items are available on the market here,imported in bulk by traders,including military type scopes,and semi auto rifles.Yes, thats right,licensed persons can buy s/a rifles.


Look at the rules on GRAF and Midway. Just follow that.

Pages and pages to say: keep your business in the USA !

I really feel for the frustration of our armed brethren in Australia. Unfortunately, it is too much like doing any firearms business in California. It is too easy to stumble into legal trouble by accident. The licensed "bulk traders" will have to continue to carry that load. I have sold and shipped molds to Australians, but that would be as close to a "firearm item" as I would be willing to risk.

[john.k]

I feel no frustration.The recent US shortages never impacted here.22 ammo,powder and primers were always freely available.I have imported lots of items without any problems,except with Brownells complete disregard of excessive postage costs.Titan have addressed this,I am now a regular customer.In fact the only major problem I have had was with the export of a large machine,a double acting deep drawing press,which was stopped by customs as a prohibited export under the ammo production equiptment laws.And yes,I have no doubt it was going to be used for that.The buyers took delivery,dismantled the machine,and shipped it as scrap metal without a problem.

[james23]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/02/10/itar-changes/
Changes coming hopefully.

[GONRA]

Assume GONRA has been Really Lucky here, but had NO TROUBLE purchasing 10 rd. .276 Pedersen & 5 rd. 14.5mm PTRS-41 Enbloc clips OVERSEAS a few years ago.
>>> NOW - Figger its tyme to quit doing this. <<<

Might bring down all sorts of Governmental Overreach ****. MAYBE for a Good Reason of course, but a PITA for gun crazies...
(Gun Crazies in the U.S.&.A. should "count our blessings".)

[DMatteson]

would gas check makers fall under this category.

[dogrunner]

So much for free trade...

So much for being a free people, for that matter!!!