So whaddayawant?

[kappy]

You're shooting your own cast boolits.
You're shooting at 100yds.
You're shooting something in the 30 cal range.
You are using iron sights.

What size group would you find acceptable?

Followup question... If you're using a military surplus rifle, does that change anything?

[para45lda]

Heck I'm getting where I'm just wasting ammo at 100 yards without a scope. Minute of paper plate for me personally (and yet that's still in the kill zone on the deer around here.)

Wes

[noylj]

Milsurp: 2-4" if virtually new and rifling is bright and clean
Milsurp and well used: 3-6" and this can go higher for abused
Commercial rifle: 1-3"
Expensive Custom rifle: 0.5-1.5"
I don't worry about the expected accuracy. I have fun determining the accuracy and sometimes being pleasantly surprised.

[Dan Cash]

336 Marlin .30-30, 2" benched. 1895 in .30-40, 1.5-2" benched, .45-70 Sharps, 1", 1893 Marlin .38-55, 2". .38 and .45 are with BP.

[plainsman456]

At 100 I am happy with 1-2 inches.
Factory or military it makes no difference to me.It is nice to cut the same hole from time to time.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

From an un-molested 1891 Argentine Mauser, 7.65x53
open sights, 100 yards,
I'm pretty happy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/P1218967.jpg

[dragonrider]

My targets are 8.5"x11", if I hit it at 100 yards, I am happy. If I hit it at 200 yards I am very happy.

[quilbilly]

2-3" groups at a 100 is adequate for most anything I ever shoot at. With peep sights I have a couple that do way better than that. At my age 2" makes me smile.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

if i can hit a paper plate at 100yrds with open sights im good

[Bret4207]

When I first read the OP I though I would be the odd man out settling for 2-2.5" groups. I'm happy to see I'm not alone. For me, a 5 shot group in that area is pretty fair with cast. Of course there are days I'd settle for that at 25 feet! Honestly, it's been so long since I put in any real range time that I might have to re-evaluate my expectations. Time, time, time! Just isn't enough of it.

[runfiverun]

with open sight anything under 2" is good.
if you manipulate the target size things can improve.
aiming at an 8" target can let things wander without you being aware of it.
try a smaller sized target.
a plain black dot 3-4"s diameter on brown or cream colored paper will help.
front and rear sight alignment is super critical also,i like a white stripe on the rear sight to keep things straight.
some guns just have tensions and misalignments,and oversized everything that needs reworked and aren't worth the trouble, take what they give.

[Ole]

Open sights- Hitting a pop can @ 100 yards at least every other shot and I'm happy.

I have several rifles with scopes that will shoot sub 1 MOA off a solid rest, but 3MOA with open sights is plenty good for me.

[303Guy]

My expectations and reality don't always coincide! I expect to hit a pop can every shot offhand but I don't. That's with a scope. I'm about to try open sights so from this thread I know to use a bigger target! (I'm still working on hitting those pop cans ..... [smilie=1: )

[wrench]

Anything under 2" at 100y makes me pretty excited. (I have a pretty dull life[smilie=l:)
That's with a front rest off the bench.
Usually, if I can keep them in the 10 ring of an SR1 target at 100y, I'm pretty happy, too. That's a little over 3".

[kappy]

OK. So I'm consistently getting 3-3.5" (10 shots with maybe one flyer out) with iron sights while benched. M39 with a cast 198gr boolit off of a Lyman mold. I guess I should be happy with that.

[RayinNH]

Eye sight is everything with me. Anything under 3" I'm happy, doesn't happen often. Once you hit 50 it gets a lot harder unless you were blessed with good eyes. I started wearing glasses when I was nine years old. Milsurp rifles I shoot at 50 yards unless I want the exercise walking to the hundred yard berm...Ray

[curator]

With my serious rifles equipped with high quality 1/4 minute click aperture front and rear sights, I expect five shot groups to be a bit under 2" or all in the 10 ring on the standard NRA 100 yard target. Sometimes I can do a bit better, sometimes not. Pic is benchrest group with No1MkIII Lithgow target rifle with Parker Hale sights. A 12X scope will let me trim these groups by half. http://http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx80/Dsouthall2/No1MkIIItarget.jpg

[Wolfer]

I worked a Turk action over sometime back but never could decide what caliber to put on it so one day I just screwed the 8 mm barrel back on it. Worked up a load with 170 gr Sierra and a KT 15 weaver scope I keep just for working up loads. Can't remember group size but I remember being really tickled with it. I then took the scope off and put on an aperture sight and fire front sight. I had already cut the barrel to 25". My groups immediately went to 4".
If I hadnt already confirmed the loads there's no telling how long I would have spent on trying to get it to shoot better. Shortly I bought a Lee 324-175 and worked up a load that shot the same size group albeit in a different spot. Had to change my front sight to get it to line up.

I have a couple mausers still in military dress and with surplus ammo they would hold around 3 or 4" but I've never grouped them with cast. I've always been nearsighted and since I've got that over 40 thing going on now I can't see up close either. Military sights are difficult for an old man and mostly I just try to ring my 200 yd gong with them. It's 12"x12" and I still miss it pretty regular.

[williamwaco]

When I was 30. It was 3" from my Marlin 336 .30-30

Now I am 70 and it's more like 12" .

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Kappy. Many moons ago, I fire-lapped an 1898 Krag rifle. Bore size .310" Using Ideal 311413 & 19grs. IMR4227..with the rear ladder up & using the appature peep, I was able to maintain a white line under a black bull for a 6:00 hold. Shot rifle in our club matches..many many times I was at or slightly under
1"...man what I would give to have them peepers back!!
Fast forward 20 or so years..100yds. forend on BullsBag Range rest..Protector bunny under stock. .40-70 2 1/2" str. Axtel sharps, mid-range vernier tang & windage adj. globe front with interchangeable inserts..I can still put them in 1"
Last year, I had my Winchester-Lee 1895 296 Navy (6mm) sporter out. Sights are open buckhorn on brl., German silver blade front. At 50yds., & using Ideal 245498 & 10grs. TrailBoss..it shoots to point of aim & 3/4" cloverleafs. Moving back to 100yds. grouped in 1 1/4".

[303Guy]

curator, I couldn't get into that link. Not sure why.

I'm pretty lucky to have as near perfect eyesight as anyone could ask for. Even so, iron sights require a good deal of skill. And some iron sights are just plain cr@p! Like the ones on my early Lee Enfields.

[MT Gianni]

Receiver sights I want it under 2 1/2" ideally under 2" benched. With original irons on a military gun I want to hit my own target stand not my neighbors. Did I mention I don't own any unaltered milsurps?

[303Guy]

An aperture sighted No4 would give me no excuse for not achieving the rifles potential. I can aim mine real precise, or I think I can. I've never fired the gun! The fore-wood has been cut and the top wood is missing and so is the bayonet lugged bit of the barrel. Still, a shortened to match top wood would be just fine. I want to take this one to appropriate target ranges. I'm thinking of a windage adjustable front sight and a mini suppressor (something that looks in place). Then I'd be hoping for 1½ MOA. That's my challenge anyway.

[geargnasher]

This comes up a lot, and I think this is one of the more realistic threads on the subject.

My assumption here is that the question focuses on the gun and load part of the weapon system, which generally is tested on a solid bench with optics that takes as much of the sighting errors as possible out of the equation, although that is only part of it. First, the rifle must be accurate to get good groups, second, the shooter must be able to do his part. I sure identify with eye problems, open sights are more and more of a challenge for me, and aperture sights are out due to excessive floaters.

Here's what I call acceptable, real-world accuracy out of a bolt-action sporter with a 3-9x40mm scope. This is from a Winchester model 70 Classic Sporter that is box-stock except for a rebed and float job. NOT a bragging group, BUT this gun and load will do this, or better, rarely worse, any calm day of the year above 50 degrees, cold barrel or hot, dirty or clean. I take it out periodically when I'm shooting other things and throw down a quick ten shots on paper as an ongoing experiment with boolit lube. If I use a "cold weather" lube it shoots like this from 35-50 degrees, but after ten in a row starts giving flyers. Overall, I trust the gun and load implicitly, and would adjust the scope if it weren't dead-on with some of my paper-patched loads. Interesting how the POI can change windage as well as elevation just with different boolits and loads.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_89094f4bb2bc30273.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4152)

Gear

[felix]

I agree, Ian! Definite dead beer cans at a hunnert. ... felix

[MtGun44]

1 to 3, depending on the gun and sights.

Bill

[StratsMan]

Gearnasher was dead on... we're assuming this is about the gun and load. But how do you know how tight the groups are when the shooter can't do his part??? I could lose a lot of sleep worrying about whether or not I'm doing my part with my surgically altered (but not enhanced) Mark I Eyeball...

Instead, I decided that I would be good with all shots on a paper plate. Inside the center serving area of the plate if it's close (50 yds), and just on the plate if it's far (100+ yds). Assuming, that is, that I have open sights on a milsurp rifle... I do expect better with a tight rifle and 10x magnification...

[kappy]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. I was sick for a bit (the kids at work always have the best colds). So I got out to the range with my portable bench today.

Group 1: 3 rounds- .7"
Group 2: 5 rounds- 1.9"
Range: 100yds
Load: 21.5gr of 4759.
Boolit: RCBS .310 200gr
Rifle: Mosin Finn M39 (1942)

So... I'm pretty happy. A military rifle from 1942 with my own cast boolits, from my own scavenged/salvaged lead, from my own portable reloading bench...

Damn, this is a great hobby.

http://www.weaponscache.com/forum/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=10803

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

That'd be dead deer right there!

[.22-10-45]

Hello, everyone. I posted this on the CBA forum quite some time ago..I was wondering if it would be permitted in their matches..but I still would like to try it out...just to see if it would work:
An auxiliary target at close range for sighting on with irons..position adjusted so impact would be on further out target.
I have read where Elmer Keith and other old-time revolver shooters used this technique back in the 30's, for their long-range sixgun work.
You could place aux. target as close as muzzle blast effect would permit...in line with say a 100yd. large cardboard backer..once impact was found, a piece of plain paper..or a target could be rigged up so impact was near center of bull.
This would give you a small, precise aiming point, that was repeatable.
And would be a good indicator of a rifles 100yd. accuracy..with irons, and/or older eyes.
Has anyone ever tried this?

[kappy]

Hello, everyone. I posted this on the CBA forum quite some time ago..I was wondering if it would be permitted in their matches..but I still would like to try it out...just to see if it would work:
An auxiliary target at close range for sighting on with irons..position adjusted so impact would be on further out target.
I have read where Elmer Keith and other old-time revolver shooters used this technique back in the 30's, for their long-range sixgun work.
You could place aux. target as close as muzzle blast effect would permit...in line with say a 100yd. large cardboard backer..once impact was found, a piece of plain paper..or a target could be rigged up so impact was near center of bull.
This would give you a small, precise aiming point, that was repeatable.
And would be a good indicator of a rifles 100yd. accuracy..with irons, and/or older eyes.
Has anyone ever tried this?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean...

You would place two targets a distance from each other and shoot through both of them... to what end?

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Kappy...The sighter target would be very close for precision sighting..It would NOT be hit...the natural height difference of sight height to bore, as well as already being sighted in for longer distance would make sure of that.