Carrying Outside The U.S.

[Jammer Six]

Greetings
Down here in LLama Land I get to do the routine every 5 years.
I've often wondered what it takes to carry a weapon legally outside the United States.

So, if you know, please chime in.

I'm interested in three things:

1) Does anyone have a permit to carry in Canada, (I know it's practically impossible)

2)What does it take to carry in other countries, for a citizen of that country,

3) What does it take for a U.S. citizen to carry in another country.

Please provide any citations you can.

I'm not planning on traveling, I'm just curious. :-o

[Stephen Cohen]

Thank your lucky stars, you live in the US. In this country, not even a police officer, can carry while not on duty. Security personel, may only carry, while dealing with money, or guarding banks. private citizens, may get licence for club use only, and then only under strict conditions. However criminals carry, when ever, and where, ever they wish.

[JeffinNZ]

We can carry a grudge or carry the can but that's about it.

[GRid.1569]

We can carry a grudge or carry the can but that's about it.

...and it's about the same in the U.K......

[Norbrat]

Thank your lucky stars, you live in the US. In this country, not even a police officer, can carry while not on duty. Security personel, may only carry, while dealing with money, or guarding banks. private citizens, may get licence for club use only, and then only under strict conditions. However criminals carry, when ever, and where, ever they wish.

It goes further; you cannot be in possession of any firearm at any time without "good reason". This includes having a firearm in your vehicle, unless you are on the way to, say, a hunt or a trip to the range.

At home, all firearms need to be locked away in a safe at all times, and all ammunition, including air gun pellets, needs to be locked away separately from the firearms.

Different states have different rules about security in your vehicle; some require you to have a lockable container or some other method of securing any firearm and any ammunition separately in your vehicle any time you have them with you.

You basically cannot use any firearm to defend yourself in your own home, as that would suggest that the firearm and ammunition was "accessible" and not locked away. In one case where a gun owner had been under siege for hours until finally someone broke in and was then shot dead, the home owner was charged with "wilful murder"; ie, he had planned it as he had gotten his firearm and ammunition in preparation for the possible entry. The case was thrown out of court, but it does go to show the attitude of police and prosecutors if you dare defend yourself with a firearm, even in your own home.

But having said all that, Australia is on the whole a pretty safe society. It is extremely rare for someone to be "home invaded" or mugged, especially if you stay out of certain dodgy areas in the bigger cities. Most of those kinds of incidents seem to occur internally among the drug culture and crime gangs.

[Sasquatch-1]

I don't know if this is still true but I knew a RCMP officer a while back who said when they went off duty they had to turn in their firearms and were not allowed to carry off duty. This was many many years ago.

[Bret4207]

I believe about the easiest way to carry outside the US is under the cover of Diplomatic Immunity. I only dealt with DI once, when a high level official of some sort from the Belgian Embassy in Ottawa had a car accident in my area. He was traveling under his credentials and I was advised, after numerous phone calls and relayed radio messages, that he was beyond my jurisdiction. If you can't even give them a ticket fro failure to yield then what makes anyone think gun laws apply to them?

[Sasquatch-1]

I believe about the easiest way to carry outside the US is under the cover of Diplomatic Immunity. I only dealt with DI once, when a high level official of some sort from the Belgian Embassy in Ottawa had a car accident in my area. He was traveling under his credentials and I was advised, after numerous phone calls and relayed radio messages, that he was beyond my jurisdiction. If you can't even give them a ticket fro failure to yield then what makes anyone think gun laws apply to them?

As noted before, I spent many years on the Washington DC police. Ten of the years were spent patroling the Capitol hill area. You can give a ticket to a blue book diplomat if you can get the info from him. He can just choose to ignor it if he wishes. I have seen diplomats recalled because of the amount of parking tickets they have accumulated. Now arresting one is a totally different subject.

[Linstrum]

This isn't exactly on topic, but in 1993 I was in Cut Bank, Montana, looking for the U.S. Air Force Station DEW Line radar installation that had been in service near there until about 1972. I drove to the U.S. - Canada border to talk to the U.S. personnel at the crossing about where the place was that I was looking for. The traffic at the border crossing was just dead, and one of the Canadian officials was inside the U.S. Customs building where he was going through a gun catalog looking at pistols. After the Canadian officer left, one of the U.S. officers commented that several of the Canadian border officials had guns they kept in the U.S. at Cut Bank 30 miles to the south and came across to the U.S. to go pistol shooting.

rl 1074

[parrott1969]

Concealed carry outside the United States?? You got to be kidding. In Great Brittian, they outlawed pointed knives. I even heard one chief say " there is not sense in having such a dangerous object as a pointed knife" WWWWWHAT!!!! THAT COMMENT MADE BLOOD SHOOT FROM MY EYES!! Lets face it Europe and Australia are LOST. Poor guys let the LIB- TARDS take over.

[DaveCampbell]

Don't know how legal ths was, but I know someone very well who was on a handgun hunt in South Africa not long ago and was packing a concealed Smith & Wesson .500 Magnum in the city of New London.

[btroj]

Before I would ever even dream about taking a handgun to another country I would do some major league investigating. I have no desire at all to discover what another countries prison and judicial systems are like.

Most countries in the world are not even close to the US in gun rights. I don't know that I would even consider taking a handgun out of the US for any purpose. Much easier to err on the side of caution. We need to remember that our constitutional rights stop at the border.

[hiram1]

this is sad to say but it is true.the u.s. only

[Ola]

In Finland carrying a is not allowed. Here firearm permits are strictly for hunting and target shooting. One has to have a valid reason even to transport the weapon in a gun case.
But that's not all. Here all means of self defence are basically illegal. OC-cas -permits are for professional guards and police only. Carrying a knife in public places is strictly illegal. So can be carrying a screwdriver or a spoon or basically any hard object..

The most awful thing is that defending ones home is, again, basically illegal. If someone breaks in we should just call the police and try to escape. If there is violence the fight should be FAIR: if the criminal has a knife, you can't shoot him. If you do, you will get punished for "using excessive force".

I know that you Americans are having trouble believing me, but those are all FACTS. And here is some more: Here the criminals rights are more important than the victims. This is how it usually goes in a self defence case:

-the criminal is released soon "because the crime is not bad enough"
-the armed citizen will get arrested and all his/hers the gun permits are immediately revoked (he/she is not a law abiding citizen any more because using "hunting" or "sporting" gun for illegal purpose (self defence).
-if the criminal is wounded, the citizen WILL be convicted and has to pay money to the criminal.

---

As far as I know there is only 2 European countries where carrying a firearm is legally allowed. Estonia and Czech Republic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry
In the Czech Republic, permission to concealed carry (after formal sentence is written down to the gun license) is a natural part of gun licence type E (issued for self-defense purposes).

[1Shirt]

There is no country outside of the U.S. that I would consider trying to carry, conceled or open. We need to cherish our freedoms here and protect them before we loose them.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[375RUGER]

2) In Israel it is quite common for citizens to be armed, concealed or not. If you are a business owner or live in certain areas, or are a farmer--it's really no questions asked, you just carry at will. If you are not a business owner or don't live in one of the certain areas and you can prove (I don't know what that takes, but it's not too difficult) that you really need to carry then it is allowed. All this is what I was told about the subject by the locals.
You see guns everywhere everyday over there and no one gives a second thought it.

[starmac]

I hear that you can carry in mexico, IF you belong to a US doj backed drug cartel.

[Harter66]

There is an easy way go in as part of an occupation force.............

Somehow it seems to me the world was no more dangerous to Joe Citizen when everyone carried somesort of an arm than it is today . Its just that the violence is more violent and more pubicised.

[MtGun44]

I met a guy in Ukraine that had a pistol permit, which apparently included carrying it. The
weird part is that the pistols have smooth bores, apparently to make them only useful out
to a few feet. He is a pretty big deal businessman and had been threatened by thugs, so
could get the permit.

Bill

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Peru pretty much follows the U.N. Charter. If you can pass the background check & come up with enough money you can CC. The background check involves going through an Interpol search plus all local files. Been hauling 38 Specials & 357 mag about ever since my neighbor policeman found out I did not have a revolver with me back in 1991.
Mike in Peru

[AkMike]

And in Ukraine you cannot own a rifle until you've been licensed for a shotty for at least 5 years. Even a .22!

[JeffinNZ]

U.N?

Useless nutters?

[Char-Gar]

I have a friend who is a missionary in Columbia. He is a US citizen there on a Resident Visa. He has a permit to carry concealed and does.

[MtGun44]

In Columbia you had better be carrying an AR with a loaded chamber!

Bill

[nicholst55]

There are even places in the U.S. where the average citizen cannot legally carry concealed - the Democratic Peoples Republic of Maryland comes readily to mind. You can get a carry permit, but only if you regularly carry "large sums" of cash or other negotiable instruments. You are required to verify this with deposit slips, and we're talking multiple thousands of dollars here. Carry to-and-from home to business, business to bank, then home. No stops in between. In fear of your life? Not a valid reason; call the police.

Anywhere that I've been overseas? Forget about it. In most countries you're lucky if you can own a handgun, let alone carry it concealed!

[Jammer Six]

Democratic Peoples Republic of Maryland
No such place.

I'm not interested in your political opinions, that's why I'm here, not in the political forum.

It's bad manners to bring politics into a non-political discussion.

I was at Casey, in 1975.

[30cal]

Think I`ll stay in the US,sounds like criminals got it made abroad.

[Sasquatch-1]

There are even places in the U.S. where the average citizen cannot legally carry concealed - the Democratic Peoples Republic of Maryland comes readily to mind. You can get a carry permit, but only if you regularly carry "large sums" of cash or other negotiable instruments. You are required to verify this with deposit slips, and we're talking multiple thousands of dollars here. Carry to-and-from home to business, business to bank, then home. No stops in between. In fear of your life? Not a valid reason; call the police.

Anywhere that I've been overseas? Forget about it. In most countries you're lucky if you can own a handgun, let alone carry it concealed!

I believe you can also get a carry permit in the "Peoples Republic" if you are a retired police officer and are concerned with encounters with defendents you had put away. I never tried to get one but several people I worked with had them. The only condition (I think) was you had to apply before retirement.

[Ickisrulz]

No such place.

I'm not interested in your political opinions, that's why I'm here, not in the political forum.

It's bad manners to bring politics into a non-political discussion.

I was at Casey, in 1975.

Many on here who are accustomed to exercising their right to carry weapons daily look at those parts of our country that deny this right with contempt. I’m not sure that is exactly politics.

[firefly1957]

+1 on complaints of states that do not follow the constitution not being politics . For a non LEO to get a permit in some state is either impossible or near it and one LEO on this forum has said that his N.Y. state permit was not valid in N.Y. city whats up with that!

[Jammer Six]

Many on here who are accustomed to exercising their right to carry weapons daily look at those parts of our country that deny this right with contempt. I’m not sure that is exactly politics.

Expressing it in a conversation that is not about the state or the right is political, and offensive.

Attempting to use a reference to one of the fifty states in the United States of America that is derogatory never reflects on the state.

I would hold such folks in contempt, but that would take far too much energy. So I simply point out the fact that it's poor manners to bring politics up outside the political forum, and then forget about both the issue and the person.

If I wanted to hear states denigrated by fools spraying fallacies, fantasies and trash around, I'd be in the political forum.

I'm out here.

So keep your trash in the trash can, and try to demonstrate some control over your emotions and outbursts.

Out here, it's bad manners.

[sundog]

NYC should be towed out to sea and made an island nation all of its own...

[Ickisrulz]

Expressing it in a conversation that is not about the state or the right is political, and offensive.

Attempting to use a reference to one of the fifty states in the United States of America that is derogatory never reflects on the state.

I would hold such folks in contempt, but that would take far too much energy. So I simply point out the fact that it's poor manners to bring politics up outside the political forum, and then forget about both the issue and the person.

If I wanted to hear states denigrated by fools spraying fallacies, fantasies and trash around, I'd be in the political forum.

I'm out here.

So keep your trash in the trash can, and try to demonstrate some control over your emotions and outbursts.

Out here, it's bad manners.

But it's OK to be derogatory about the members here and call them fools? That's not bad manners? Do two wrongs make a right in your world?

The "Our Town" section isn't a strictly technicial section of this forum and I'd expect a little leeway. It's not like someone in the "Reloading Equipment" section saying not to buy Redding equipment because it's made in anti-gun NY.

[Dschuttig]

I've spent a number of years traveling to over 50 countries, and from some of the things I've seen and heard of foriegn justice I wouldn't have a gun on me. You stand a much higher risk of ending up in jail than getting mugged. Not to mention, some of the border crossings I've been through check all your belongings. Last year we were traveling from bosnia to croatia, one of my friends had his whole bag dumped out because they were curious about a bottle of benadryl. Imagine if a 9mm fell out?

[MtGun44]

Sorry, Jammer. You seem to be the one picking a fight.
Saying you hold someone "in contempt" is a pretty unfriendly thing to
be saying.

How about we just cool things off a bit and stop working at being
offended at some innocent comment.

Bill

[waksupi]

Considering that we want immigrants to come to our country, and follow our laws and customs, it is only fair to give the same courtesy when you travel out of the States.

[nicholst55]

Expressing it in a conversation that is not about the state or the right is political, and offensive.

Attempting to use a reference to one of the fifty states in the United States of America that is derogatory never reflects on the state.

I would hold such folks in contempt, but that would take far too much energy. So I simply point out the fact that it's poor manners to bring politics up outside the political forum, and then forget about both the issue and the person.

If I wanted to hear states denigrated by fools spraying fallacies, fantasies and trash around, I'd be in the political forum.

I'm out here.

So keep your trash in the trash can, and try to demonstrate some control over your emotions and outbursts.

Out here, it's bad manners.

Sorry you feel that way, my friend. You've obviously never lived in Maryland.

And now I have three people on my 'Ignore List.'

[Dschuttig]

Honestly, who cares about states? It's a political boundary between two places. It's not like someone is insulting your mom or something.. Maybe I'm just used to living in NY where we have like 50 quazillion different political entaties because everyone is hung up on some kind of identity that doesn't matter one bit and drives my taxes sky high to support it.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Somehow we have gotten of track.
To return to it, I lived in Europe 5 & 1/2 yrs., 1950 era, most anti gun was England IIRC.