Casting the Hard Way

[Ricochet]

I've just finished casting a batch of these boolits for my Italian (San Marco) Colt Walker replica, from the mould that came cased with the Walker. With the cavities and sprue plate well smoked it'll actually cast good usable boolits, but they're nearly all quite wrinkled and by the time the cavity's getting hot enough to cast well I can't hold onto the bare brass handles with the gloves I'm using. I actually started dipping the handles in water to cool them. So getting 6 dozen of these things cast and ready to go is no small feat.

I like the design of these boolits for the Walker, as the .420" heel easily slips into the chamber and the waist of the boolit shears on loading to about the same extent as a ball of the same diameter (.451".) The ogive fits nicely into the loading port and fits the "nose punch" cavity of the loading rammer perfectly. If there was a six holer Lee mould for the design, I'd buy one.

I figure this is a rather generic Italian mould for .44 cap & balls. Based on an original Colt design? Lyman used to catalog one shaped like this as #429185.

Here's a pic of one I just cast:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/SlidePicker/WalkerBall.jpg

[MT Gianni]

Nice, What are the chances of slimming the handles down and adding wood grips? A 1" dowell might be the ticket. Gianni

[Ricochet]

I could probably drill the centers of some dowels and make handle covers without doing anything to the handles, actually. Think I'll try that, as I do rather like these boolits.

[buck1]

At the auto parts store you can buy "headder wrap" It may be worth a try?....Buck

[Ricochet]

That's an idea.

[Buckshot]

At the auto parts store you can buy "headder wrap" It may be worth a try?....Buck

..............Yeah! Get the hotrod stuff with red flames on it :-)

...............Buckshot

[WHITETAIL]

Nice boolet! I have the same mould in a 36 cal.

[Ricochet]

Yeah, red flames, now we're talkin! :mrgreen:

Maybe hang a pair of fuzzy dice off the ends, sprayed with flame retardant of course.

Seeing as how this boolit is .451" maximum diameter, and I know .451" (or up to .457") balls work in it too, I think I'll experiment with .45 ACP boolits. I've got some commercially cast 230 grain round noses (that are likely too hard to easily shear off and seat in the chamber without overtaxing the rammer), and I have an old two cavity Ideal mould for the #452486 .45 wadcutter (which I could cast soft), that are prospects. That custom 200 grain .44 DEWC isn't going to work. The chambers (that I thought I'd measured at .433" a while back) are .440". I've tried casting the above boolits in air cooled wheelweight metal and found them pretty hard to ram into the chambers, so I probably had best not press my luck with the commercial 230 grainers. They're made out of something like #2 or Magnum alloy. Time to put the Ideal wadcutter blocks on handles, smoke 'em up and fire up the pot. Those boolits are rated by Lyman/Ideal at 193 grains in #2, which happens to be just what my Walker mould boolits come out weighing in soft nearly pure lead.

[ron brooks]

Wouldn't a bevel base bullet be about perfect for this if cast from lead?

Ron

[Ricochet]

Yes, a bevel base or a gascheck design without the check would work well for starting the boolit into the chamber mouth (which isn't beveled.)

[Springfield]

Why don't you start a GB on a similar bullet except make it a Big Lube Design. There is already one out there but the shank is .450 as it is designed for the Ruger ROA. It is a 210 grain bullet, and it works great in ROA's but is just too big to get started in Piettas or Uberti's. I have 6 pietta 44's that I would love to use this bullet in but can't. My Pietta's have a cylider bore of .445, so make the shank .442 just to be safe and make them easier to load.

[Ricochet]

That is a good idea.

I don't think I could honcho a GB, but I'd get in on it if someone did.

[Springfield]

OK, maybe I'll do it. I am doing another one already. This conical is a bullet I could use. Any more interested in a Big Lube conical for Pietta/Uberti 44 Cap and balls? Here is a pic of the existing one for the ROA's. It weighs in at about 210 grains. A little smaller would be OK with me, any other thought on that? http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/mwhyte123/DD--ROAConical.jpg

[Hayfield]

Ricochet. Is the top punch on your Colt rammer for a pointed bullet? All my cap and ball revolvers have a 'ball' type punch. Wouldn't a bullet be turned into a 'ball' by the very act of ramming it into the cylinder with a 'ball' type punch on the rammer? Moreso with a soft alloy I would think. Let me know, I like that bullet and I'd like it even more with the lube groove. I'm going to need a GB for the pointy bullet rammers just for mine.

[wiljen]

I have a couple of different 230s and a 200 swc designed for the ACP I could cast a few of pure lead or 30:1 if you'd like em to try Ricochet. Probably could get em to ya along with the alox here soon.

[Ricochet]

Yeah, my rammer's for a pointy boolit, shaped perfectly for the one I first pictured. (Which mould shipped with the revolver.) About a 2R ogive, coming to a point. Loading round balls produces a ring around the front of the ball, but doesn't deform it too badly.

That Big Lube boolit doesn't look all that different from the .45-70 Collar Button, a version of which is shaping up into a group buy now. The difference I see above is that it looks like there is a narrow heel like on the original boolit at the top, but less pronounced. A suggestion I'd make is to add a bevel on the bottom of it to aid in starting into chambers that may be a little smaller than the heel. Its length looks fine to me, similar to the Walker mould I have. Boy, those boolits sure do look different with the groove empty and full!

I'd also wondered how the 200 grain Lee .45 R.E.A.L. boolit would work in a .44 revolver? Looks like a good prospect to me. I think their tumble-lube microband designs would work well for the lead shearing necessary for loading in a cap & ball, too.

Wiljen, I would love to try a few of those .45s cast soft. The only .45 mould I presently have is that Ideal button wadcutter. I think it'd just be interesting to try different things and see what works in the old horse pistol. A dozen or so is enough to get a good idea of how it loads. Boolits last longer with the cap & ball loading process. :mrgreen:

[wiljen]

I'll cast a few and put em in with your alox - I think I have 3 molds to try out. 2 different RN 230s and the 200 SWC.

[Ricochet]

Thanks! :mrgreen:

[Ricochet]

Just thought I'd throw in a pic of these six dozen Walker boolits awaiting their intended use. Can't see the mould, 'cause it's still down with the lead pot.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/SlidePicker/WalkerCase.jpg

[piwo]

Just thought I'd throw in a pic of these six dozen Walker boolits awaiting their intended use.

After having read 45nut's story of type revolver in said picture, It would be reckless of me not to remind: " don't forget to grease you balls"... :-D :Fire:

[StrawHat]

If I recall correctly, back in the 70's there was an article in Muzzle Blasts about loading commercially formed 200 gr SWC 45 acp target bullets in the Remington New Model C&B revolver. The author was an accuracy seeker (target shooter) and worked his cylinder over to more accurately fire the commercial bullet.

I tried using a 185 SWC, but back then I was even stupider than I am now and used ALOX or something similar. It would have been smarter to shoot them naked.

I am sure they would work better with BP lube but over 50+ grain of powder, maybe not the most accurate loading. Or maybe it would be, you never know until you see the target.

How about those hollow based bullets for the 45 long Colt? Anyone try them? Especially in a Dragoon or Walker they should be awesome.

Crud, now I might have to dust off the 2nd Dragoon and see if it remembers how to shoot.

[Ricochet]

After having read 45nut's story of type revolver in said picture, It would be reckless of me not to remind: " don't forget to grease your balls"... :-D :Fire:
I won't shoot it without first greasing my balls with the purest lanolin. :-D

Last night I asked my wife if she wanted to see my half gross conical balls. She didn't think they looked all that bad.

(A full gross would never fit in the boolit compartment of that case.)

[AZ-Stew]

This would be easier to believe if I had had the sense to use the camera in my new cell phone, but you'll have to take my word for it.

As I passed a certain dealer's table at a recent gun show, I noticed him holding a cap and ball revolver of serious vintage. I stopped to take a closer look and started taking in more of what caught my attention at first glance. Big gun. Long barrel. Colt. Oval cylinder stop notches. No forward latch for the loading lever. Holy Toledo! The Hispanic gent who owned it was over in the next aisle holding a double pommel holster than may have been made at a later date. The gun had been engraved and had some gold inlays, but little of the original finish. The left grip had a LARGE Mexican-style carved solid silver eagle inset into it. It appeared for all the world to be an authentic, original Walker. Better still, there were TWO of them! They weren't a matched pair, but they had been embellished to appear alike. The serial number of one was worn or filed off, the other had markings linking it to a military organization (Company XXX, etc.). The story told by the owner was that he had bought them from an older gent, now deceased, who told him that the revolvers had been brought up from Mexico into Arizona about 1915. Apparently, the owner had been talking to the dealer over the period of several gun shows ("I have these old guns. I'll bring them to one of the shows so you can tell me what they're worth") and I was lucky enough to be there when he brought them in. Astronomical numbers (probably warranted) and possible methods of sale were discussed. I told the owner that they belonged in a museum where they could be given proper care and security.

Sorry for being a bit OT, but it's a story that's been burning a hole in my pocket, so to speak, and this looked like a good place to bring it up. It made all the gun show entry fees I've ever spent worthwhile. It's one of those things you just don't see every day.

Regards,

Stew

[Ricochet]

That's wild! Real Walkers are worth SERIOUS money!

[Freightman]

If real you can't put a price on them as there were only 1000 made. You were right they belong in a museum.

[Ricochet]

Oh, but prices have been put on them. Recently. Check this out: http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/articles/mar03/colt0303.htm

[TDB9901]

Strawhat,

FWIW I have had some success with my Remington .44 copy using the Lee R.E.A.L. bullet for muzzle loading .45 rifles. They are beveled at the base for engraving at the muzzle of the rifle, and seem to fit quite nicely in the cylinder. I have the 200 grain version, I believe they also have a 250.

I think the revolver shoots it better than my rifle does, and just as well as round balls. Packs a much better thump than the RB for sure.

I would dearly love to just handle an origional Walker!!!!!

Tom

[Ricochet]

Thanks, Tom! I thought that 200 grain R.E.A.L. would work in a revolver.

[Dale53]

The Ruger Old Army revolver is often used with "modern" bullets for serious competition (subject to rules of the particular match). I would feel MUCH more comfortable using a Ruger or a good modern replica than I would using an original with bullets heavier than originally designed for. Many of the old original revolvers are pretty much borderline with the design loads, let alone "heavier than design".

I have seen some sad ("I wished that I had not done that") examples of damaged and destroyed old originals. I live near Friendship In, home of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, and have spent considerable time there over a long period of years. Sad tales abound...

Dale53

[Ricochet]

The original bullet for the Walker is a conical similar to the ones I cast, pictured in the first post. Close to 200 grains. Round balls are a quick and dirty substitute.