Hypersensitivity to melting lead

[KaliforniaRebel]

Hello all. I only just found this great forum a few days ago and I've wanted to get into reloading for a while. I'm pretty sure this is the "de facto" place for all future information needs.

A few days ago I thought I'd start out melting down wheel weights for ingots to have a steady supply when I start casting, but I seem to suffer from ill effects. When melting, I keep the flame low and only melt a few weights at a time in the casting mold. The only change from the normal process is that I'm not fluxing since I'm only making ingots for now. I keep away from the stove as much as possible (more then 10 feet) and hold my breath for 30 seconds while I skim off the slag. I have on all the needed equipment (eye protection, full jumpsuit, thick gloves, two large box fans providing strong wind against the stove, etc) and I'm using an old camping stove with propane to heat. I only did this process three times between melting down weights, skimming, and cooling the ingots. Total time outside is maybe an hour and once done, I wipe down all tools, toss the towel and use heavy soap and water on hands and arms.

After the first time I melted the lead, two hours later I get a nasty headache. Painkillers and a hot shower wiped most of it out and felt no ill effects the next day. Two days later I repeat the process with everything the exact same as before, but the after effect is stronger and I feel crummy the next morning. After being up for a few hours now I feel close to normal.

I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong with this. If I'm going to continue, I'm seriously thinking of fabricating an air supply to blow air from much further away into an old gas mask I have. Does anybody else suffer from this?

[trooperdan]

It is much more likely that you are getting incomplete combustion and are suffering from carbon monoxide exposure than anything lead related!

[jcwit]

I'm afraid you're going WAY over the top trying to protect yourself from a problem that is for all intents and purposes non existent.

As far as you later ill effects more than likely an anxiety attack from worry.

[linotype]

+1 I agree. "When melting, I keep the flame low" could be an improper burn mix of oxygen and propane.
Very dangerous situation. Consider smelting outside with good fresh air flow and/or a better heat source.
Safety first, so keep yourself safe and well, and welcome to the forum

[jcwit]

Just a note here, you're not going to get any lead vapor/fumes of any consequense unless you have a means of getting the melt up to 1749 degrees f. This is way past smelting and/or casting temps which are in the neighborhood of 800 degrees.

[northof58]

Wheel weights often have paint, oil and a lot of other crud on them. This is what is giving the fumes which are bothering you. I have had the same problem if I melt them when there is no breeze to take away the fumes. Melt them on a day when you have a gentle breeze taking away the fumes and you should be good.

[leadman]

I assume you are melting outside. You state you have an old gas mask. Have the cartridges been replaced and what was this used for previously?

If out in the open you would do better to ditch the gas mask and buy a new respirator with cartridges that include lead. This can be bought at a building supply store. Not really needed though but if you want to wear it that is ok.
I would have the fans pull the air from in front of you instead of blowing from the back. This will pull the fumes away from you and not create a vortex around you. I tested this with lead test kits when I built my casting area. These are swabs that can be bought from the building supply also. I was an OSHA approved Hazardous waste worker and Safety person.

The lead fumes are probably not your problem but what is on the wheel-weights, like paint, grease etc. can be.

Sounds a little like you are stressed out melting the weights into ingots. There are many members that sell ingots ready to be used on the Selling & Swapping here.
This is an enjoyable pastime that many do with complete safety with just a few precautions.
You can have the doctor check the level in your blood now as a baseline then get another test in a year to see if you are doing things properly.

[jcwit]

He stated he had 2 box fans blowing the fumes away from him and the stove. No need for a slight breeze. Also claimed he held his breath!

[canyon-ghost]

It's the crud turning to smoke, I've had that. The fumes from wheelweight are bad enough. Take a break from it or get to a stopping place. Use dishwasher detergent, like Cascade, to take it out of your clothes. High phosphate detergent works, just have to cycyle the washer twice because of the slimy feel.

That tire lube and paint is some bad stuff. You could wash the wheelweight down with the garden hose some.

After smelting all you need, the headache disappears. The clean lead doesn't do that, hmm....

I like to flux with parafin, even pouring ingots. It delivers foot high orange flames (really flammable). It burns all the crud and impurities down to a black, brittle skim. I stand way back while it burns down and breathe fresh air, upwind, if you will.

And, yes, you need the shower immediately afterward, always. The stuff sticking to your clothes, hair, skin, is probably real toxic. Since my washing machine and shower are close to the door, after a cup of coffee, I just clean up. The tools and such will wait, getting it off your skin and away from your sinuses won't !

One of the guys suggesting drinking Orange juice, I think he's right. I have a knack for vitamin C, myself.

[Blacksmith]

KaliforniaRebel

I don't mean to tell you what you already know but since you are new to this I want to mention that there are different kinds of wheelweights and they are not all the same alloy so you want to seperate them by type before you melt them so you can keep your alloys a known composition. Also any included zinc wheel weights will contaminate your alloy so it won't cast.

[KaliforniaRebel]

The impurities still burning off makes the most sense. I'll look into the lead protectant respirator for certain. When it comes to the weights themselves, I pull each off of cars in the yard because you can't get used weights form tire shops. Cal...I mean Kalifornia made it illegal to obtain it either new or used without hazmat papers for disposal. It has to go straight to the scrap yard. It beats having to filter the lot though...

I melted all the lead outside. All of this is wheel weight lead heated at a low temp. Just enough to melt then remove slag/clips and cool.

[Bret4207]

You're doing this outside and you're still getting a headache, etc? You don't need a respirator friend, you a tranquilizer. Seriously, relax, stand upwind from the smoke and try to enjoy the process. It's just hot metal, not death in a pot. You might have some sort of hyper sensitivity to the fumes I suppose. Or your propane stove could be leaking, that'll give you a headache.

Another thought, are you allergic to dogs or cats? Cats and dogs pee on tires and it gets on the WW. Stinks like...well, boiling cat pee and that's enough to make anyone sick.

Really, stand upwind and relax. You don't need a "lead protectant respirator".

[jsizemore]

Since your not fluxing there's a good chance that your lossing the antimony and tin plus lead oxides that you can reduce back into your melt by fluxing.

I use a 3M VOC respirator that has 2 carbon filters to cut out the burning paint and oil on the WW. I tried to stay upwind but got caught enough times to end up with a raw feeling in my nose and agravation of my asthama. Bought mine at Lowes and I feel like it's the best $30 I've spent on casting.

[waksupi]

I would recommend fluxing as you go, that will help separate out the nasty stuff faster. The lead itself has no airborne particles, so that wouldn't be the problem.

Now, where is that picture of Buckshot casting boolits in his huaraches, thong, and campaign hat?

Welcome aboard, and stick to it!

[KaliforniaRebel]

Now that I think about it Bret, I think the stove was indeed leaking at the supply valve. I wondered why my hands were so cold when I had taken the stove assembly apart. The latex gloves I wear smell identical to the gas so I didn't even think about it. The flame would also spit and flare at times.

The wonderful plethora of eco-nut anti-lead propaganda also doesn't help. I certainly do get sick of it here.

I'll remember to flux on first melt too rather then just cast ingots. This was just a first try to see how it went. Lots more work to do.

[jcwit]

Crank up the heat and melt the W/W in a pot "NOT aluminum", cast or steel. Flux and skim to remove the dirt and debris, then pour into the ingot molds. You have little to fear, in fact you're in more danger driving to work or walking down the street.

[ElDorado]

Is your eye protection a pair of glasses, or are you using a pair of goggles with a strap that’s too tight? I know it’s a stretch, but I used to have a diving mask that I had to cinch up tight to get a good seal. The dang thing would give me a headache. I eventually went to another mask and the headaches stopped.

Just a thought.

[runfiverun]

you definately need to flux when smelting,it's much easier to do this outside and cut down on the amount you will be doing it when you cast.

you are not alone in feeling ill when smelting ww's.
i only do it in the morning and for just a few hours at a time.
i also limit myself to smelting 300 lbs max at one time.
i generally set the pots on to melt then go do something for about 45 minutes it's just lead it isn't goin nowhere.
i come by and add more ww's to the pot every 15-20 minutes and let it do it's thing.
wwhen they are melted,i turn down the heat get out the clips,turn up the heat and take the clips from the second pot.
then flux and light off both pots and stand/sit back and wait.
empty the first pot and refill,then empty the secong pot and refill add some more ww's to the first then go sit down or whatever.
the key is to get something to drink and relax, add some more ww's.
remember that the lead is at 700 or more degrees and is probably at waist height heating your core.
stay away get cooled down and keep hydrated.
i take a shower and such after smelting ww's also.
casting is no big deal.

[letsmeltlead2693]

It's CO poisoning. Got it mild when I first started to melt lead. I melted it with a torch outside but it was not windy. I use a hotplate to melt lead and have no side effect from lead exposure. Lead is nothing to worry about if you don't eat the dust or breath in the lead oxide dust. Lead metal in solid form is relatively non toxic. I only melt lead outside so please find a spot outside and melt lead there. Buy an extension cord to reach outside to your melting area. You will be fine as long as you don't worry too much about it.

[jcwit]

I seriously doubt it CO poisoning, in post # 11 the OP states he's doing the melting OUTSIDE.

[blackthorn]

Work outside for the initial smelt. Get a BIG pot (cut the top off a 20lb propane tank). Fill the pot with loose wheel weights, pour about a cup full of diesel or stove oil over the wheel weights, fire up the heat source under the pot, light the diesel on fire and stir with a long VERY DRY stick.

[firefly1957]

Your dross (skim ) is not getting wet is it?

[MtGun44]

I, too, will suggest that you relax on the lead thing. Kalifornia may be my home state, but
the loons out there are so far gone as to make it a state I will visit but would not even
consider living in any more.

Either crud burning off the wts or leaking fuel seems likely. The biggest real risk is some
sort of a lead splashing incident, so safety goggles, gloves and long sleeves and long
pants, and closed top shoes are prudent. Lead vaporization at the temps we use is
near as anything to zero. If you are familiar with scientific notation, the partial pressure
of lead at our temps is in the 10 to the minus 7 torr range, so that is one ten millionth
of one torr, where normal atmospheric pressure is 760 torr. Effectively zero lead vapor.

Witness that thousands of us have been casting for decades with blood lead levels that are
extremely low. Lead enters the body most easily by eating, drinking or smoking (putting
anything contaminated with lead dust, NOT vapor, in your mouth). Don't eat, smoke or
drink while handling lead or casting, wash your hands and you will never have any issues.

Bill

[MT Gianni]

If you are using LP make sure that your flame does not contact the bottom of the pot. [Impengement] That is a surefire way to make CO. Make sure that you do not have any zinc weights. Not only will they mess up your alloy but you can get galvanic poisoning. Some are more susceptible than others to that, drinking milk before and after seems to help a lot of welders. The tank connection will be cold after drawing fuel for a while. It should not appear to be frosted or iced which would be a sing of leakage in a warmer climate. It might be that you are sensetive to the burning product. I would get a cartridge respirator and see if it makes a difference. It would not be for protection of lead fumes but for burning rubber and paint. I don't let my alloy get to hot before I pour either. I assure that you are not overheating it for 30 minutes or more past it's melting temperature.

[leadman]

If you can position a box fan behind the stove level with the top of the windscreen or pot, whichever is higher, it will pull the fumes away from you. I tested this extensively while casting and making shot. I had a piece of aluminum plate fastened to the front of my shirt. Tested it for lead before I started, none present. Cast and made shot with the fans behind me, lead was present on the plate. Cleaned the plate, tested, no lead, cast & made shot with the fan in front of me, no lead on the plate.
I then put the fan behind me again and lit a wad of newspaper behind the fan for smoke and watched what the smoke did around me. It swirled around to the front of me in eddies (sp).
So take from this what you want, but lead exposure is a very slow process, unless you eat it. Staying out of the other fumes is more important. Some of the weights are coated with an epoxy coating that is really nasty.

Relax and enjoy yourself, this is a fun pastime that has enough challenges to keep it interesting (or frustrating). when my blood lead level went up to 12 I noticed a metallic tate in my mouth and my teeth felt different. Hard to explain that one! OSHA doesn't require action until the BLL is 40 so if you are ever aware of symptons you may well be just slightly elevated.
Personal hygiene goes a long ways to preventing contamination.

[SciFiJim]

Cal...I mean Kalifornia made it illegal to obtain it either new or used without hazmat papers for disposal.

What part of CA are you in? I regularly get WWs from three different tire shops. There has never been an issue about papers. If some shop is telling you this, they are blowing smoke up your backside. They might not know any different though. It might be what they were told by "SumDude". Incorrect information doesn't help anyone.

[John Guedry]

+ 1 on drinking milk.

[KaliforniaRebel]

I finally found out what was causing my ailment. Bad Beer! :groner:

For the last few days I've been sharing some stock of stored Newcastle and Corona from a friend and learned that this stuff is a DECADE old. Needless to say the rest has been used to water the flowers...

On the lighter side I finally ran my first casting session today in 9x18 Mak even though it was only a hundred or so. Tomorrow I pan lube and case trim for sizing. Lots of study work to do.

*Edit* Oh yeah. One more thing learned. NEVER touch an ingot without gloves on no matter how long you think it has cooled.

For SiFiJim: I live a stones throw (and trust me I tried) from SF in the east bay. I deal with all the panhandlers, crazies, angry youth and and idiots that just plain drive me nuts. I miss Florida, Arizona, Nevada, Texas, and Louisiana while I was still in the service.

[jcwit]

Hot tip here!

Stay away from alcohol while casting.

In fact stay away from drinking, eating, smoking, picking your nose or any such activities while casting.

Even tho I believe the scare regarding lead is way overblown, I see no benefit doing any of the above while handling lead.

[KaliforniaRebel]

I absolutely agree to not be drinking while casting. The same follows for before casting too. This was afterward each time post cleanup.

[mooman76]

I will drink when casting in a long session but I don't have my drink (not alcohol)close to the casting area and I am very careful to keep my hands away from the top of the glass. Casting can get hot and you do need to keep hydrated.