PDA

View Full Version : Mauser question for the cognoscenti



Char-Gar
06-26-2005, 10:29 PM
It is about time to add a new cast bullet rifle to the collection. I want a Mauser..not the long rifle but the short barrel version. I don't want a collector's piece as I will probably put a receiver sight on it. I do want a primo shooter with an excellent bore for cast bullets. I want a 98 action

What do you suggest and where do I look?

waksupi
06-26-2005, 10:38 PM
VZ 24, also sometimes listed as CZ 24. Sarco, Century Arms, most any of the vendors. There is another good one that doesn't come to mind immediately, but I'm sure Buckshot or someone else will remember it. Seems like it may be Belgium made, but I don't know for sure.

Char-Gar
06-26-2005, 11:48 PM
I checked SARC0, Samco, and Century and didn't find any VZ24's. One did have a Cech Mauser at $325.00.

I can buy a non-collector's grade M48 (yugo) from Mitchell's Mausers with a mint bore for about $175. I see lots of references to these Yugo around. How about one of those for a play toy. I would like to knock off the rear sight and put on a Lyman 57 and let it know at that.

I do have a mint unfired Persian 29 that I want to shoot but don't want to mess with it. It is such a fine rifle, I had to drill holes in it.

Scrounger
06-26-2005, 11:53 PM
I checked SARC0, Samco, and Century and didn't find any VZ24's. One did have a Cech Mauser at $325.00.

I can buy a non-collector's grade M48 (yugo) from Mitchell's Mausers with a mint bore for about $175. I see lots of references to these Yugo around. How about one of those for a play toy. I would like to knock off the rear sight and put on a Lyman 57 and let it know at that.

I do have a mint unfired Persian 29 that I want to shoot but don't want to mess with it. It is such a fine rifle, I had to drill holes in it.

Check this out: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Rifles.html Lots of Mausers, including VZ24s.

jethrow strait
06-27-2005, 12:24 AM
If it needs to be a 98 Mauser in short rifle configuration with an excellent bore than those two are the most practical choices in today's market. I'd go with the VZ24, better quality but you'll need to be a little more careful about getting one with a good bore, than with the post-war Yugo 48s. Most of the VZ24s on the market today date from the mid to late thirties, Romanian contract guns heavily used in the eastern front and elsewhere. Nuthin purty about them, but good Czecho actions.

There are so many Mausers out there it might be worth pokin around a bit; never know what will turn up(for me, that's half of the pleasure of mausermania) A Turk 46(not the more ubiquitous Turk 38 long rifle) would meet your criteria at a real bargain price, if you can find one with a good barrel. WWII era kraut K98ks also, but they are overpriced as shooters due to the Nazi memorabilia fad. Best of all, imho, would be a German or Austrian made South American contract Mauser, from the pre-World War I era, in the short rifle or carbine configuration.

jethrow

StarMetal
06-27-2005, 12:32 AM
I have an unissued Yugo 48B and I couldn't be happier with it. The quality of it by the way is very good. I installed a receiver sight and it's a very accurate rifle.

Joe

Buckshot
06-27-2005, 04:13 AM
.............If you don't have several places to go looking, the best bet would be one of the Mitchell M48's. They're brand new so there's no question as to barrel condition. If you can look around at some places which might have some others, then that might be productive. If nothing turned up then there's always the Mitchell route.

Jethrow mentioned the Turk M38/46's and they're a K98 size rifle (24" bbl). Their condition will vary. Late 90's and I think it was SOG who had a '3-fer' deal on the Turk short rifles for $225. As I had the FFL it was agreed I got first pick :lol:. The 3 rifles couldn't have been more different from each other.

The one I got had a real nicely figured walnut stock (I cracked it at the wrist trying to get my 240gr 8mm bullet going 2300 fps) with great metal and a fine barrel. Another had a brand new Birch stock, no exterior finish but a nice barrel and the 3rd had a raggedy Birch stock, metal looked like new but the barrel was a wash.

If you do have several places to go looking there is no telling what you might be able to find in 8x57. I have a Turked German Commission M1888 which is a joy and a delight to shoot. Some of these the Turks merely restamped the sights leaves in Turkish numbers during WW1, and still retain the barrel tube. Others were placed into the same stocks as the M38's got (M88/14/35), with the barrel tubes removed.

................Buckshot

XBT
06-27-2005, 12:31 PM
The Yugo M-48 would be a good choice. They are easy to find and are an excellent bargain. Mitchell’s prices tend to be a bit high on these. Around here (Utah) very good M-48’s with bright bores sell for $100. to 125. Unissued/new models are $175. to 200.

“Jimmy The Shooter”

45nut
06-27-2005, 12:44 PM
VZ 24, also sometimes listed as CZ 24. Sarco, Century Arms, most any of the vendors. There is another good one that doesn't come to mind immediately, but I'm sure Buckshot or someone else will remember it. Seems like it may be Belgium made, but I don't know for sure.

Would that be the 98/22?
I have one of the 98/22's and a VZ 24 that are still wrapped for when I don't have funds to buy guns,but still want the new-to-me gun experience. I have a M 95 Steyr that is also in reserve and my K 31 may just go into reserve as well. My own personal military history museum of sorts.

Still looking for a Garand to arrive at the right price.

Char-Gar
06-27-2005, 03:11 PM
I called Mitchell's Mausers this morning, credit card in hand and talked to one of their sale people. It seem that want $299 for a rifle with a "guaranteed" excellent bore. Their web site is a little misleading in this manner, so I told them no thanks.

I thinking am better buying a Mauser hands on, so I had better wait until the next gun show and see what turns up. We really don't have much in the way of gunshops in this town. There is one pawn shop that has fair prices on most things and will dicker a little. They really don't know much about guns and some items are way overpriced and even after a dicker the price is far more than they are worth. No sense in trying to educate t hem, they just think you are trying to beat their guns down.

Thanks for the reply. I have a primo 1891 Lowe Argentine Mauser that will do me for a while, but I do want a 98K of some kind.

Bob S
06-27-2005, 03:18 PM
I strongly recommend a Yugo 24/47. Much better quality than the Yugo 48 or 48A. Have 3; two retain their original like-new 7.92 x 57 barrels; one has a Wilson .308 military profile barrel and an FN24 bolt with turned-down handle:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/Mausers/308_Yugo.jpg

Guess which one I shoot the most?

Resp'y,
Bob S.

P.S. I wouldn't buy anything from Mitchell's. They have a rep for misleading advertising and over-pricing everything.

Scrounger
06-27-2005, 03:25 PM
Chargar, did you check out that link I gave you to Aim Surplus?
http://www.aimsurplus.com/
They have lots of Mausers, including VZ24s ($175), and they are an honorable, easy to deal with company. They also have the Mauser 24/7, sold with several accessories, in VG condition for $120, or Excellent condition for $140. I would suggest calling them. Mausers are not going to be coming in better condition or lower prices anytime soon. I'm glad you're not dealing with Mitchell. I had a bad experience with them, wherein they cheated me with an unnecessary $200 repair instead of replacing a $10 part. They set it up with lies. They have a very bad reputation with dealers who have dealt with them. Mitchell, the owner is a real Nazi. Be glad to furnish the details to anyone who even thinks they might want to deal with them. I hope he doesn't die and go to hell too soon, I want him to suffer from Aids and Cancer for several years first. Me, carry a grudge?

StarMetal
06-27-2005, 03:50 PM
I don't see where some of you think the quality of a Yugo 48B isn't as good. I'll put my Yugo 48B up against anyone's V24. The barrel on mine perfect and it should be as it's unissued. It mics dead on .323 right were an 8mm should be. The lands and groove are pristine sharp. The proof is in the shooting and I'll wager to bet my 48 with peep sites will out shoot most with a scope. You get an unissued Yugo 48 you can't go wrong, there is no hit or miss on whether you are getting a decent bore in something else. Mine chews holes at 100 meters with the Lee 165 gr bullet, the Lyman spitzer 240 grain and the Oldfeller bullets. I couldn't ask for more from an 8x57. The action works smooth and is very tight. I can't see any shoddy workmanship on the rifle I have. To boot it comes with ammo pouch, sling, bayonet, bayonet frog, and cleaning kit. Everything on it is brand new including the stock.

Joe

StarMetal
06-27-2005, 03:56 PM
All Yugoslavian Mauser rifles bearing 'M-48' markings were made in Yugoslavia at the Preduzece 44 (Zastava) factory. While it is true an extremely small number of prototypes were made during the Second World War, none of these research prototypes were ever marked 'M-48'. So far as we are aware, there are no prototypes for sale anywhere in North America - or, for that matter, anywhere else in the world - and if there were one, the asking price would be understandably quite high as a prized collectors' item - and its markings definitely different from those of the M-48 series.

These rifles are readily available in as new, un-issued condition. It is conceivable that a very small number of M-48s are arsenal refinished and some are available used, however these would definitely stand out from the rest since they would all bear unique ‘arsenal refinished’ markings. We have sold both un-issued and used condition M-48s (offering each in accurately-graded condition).

The M-48 is very similar to the German Mauser K-98 save for the much finer craftsmanship and materials used in comparison with later-WWII German rifles. Practically all parts of the M-48 are crafted from milled as opposed to stamped steel. Typically the Mauser M-48 series rifles will be offered with a Yugo-made bayonet copied from the early pattern German K-98 wood-handled bayonet (a barrel support ring was added to the Yugo version).

Notice that first sentence in the last paragraph....much finer craftsmanship and materials used in comparison with later WWII German rifles.

Joe

StarMetal
06-27-2005, 04:02 PM
go here and look at these M24 Mausers at a good price:

http://www.samcoglobal.com/rifles.html

grumble
06-27-2005, 04:58 PM
Chargar, I've bought, sold, and traded quite a few Mausers of various persuasions (Turk, Yugo, Bosnian, etc). None of them had what I'd call "excellent" bores when I got them. You could see machining marks in all of them. Most were dark even when the rifling was nice and sharp. Slugging an entire bore, there are definate variations in diameter.

That said, most of them still shot well, and after 20-30 rounds, the dark bores cleaned up nicely. On a couple of them, I hand lapped them, which took out most of the machining marks and diameter variations, turning them into fine cast boolit shooters.

I know you are particular on the bores of the guns you have, and when you say "excellent," you don't mean "pretty good." My point here is, if you go looking for an excellent bore, you might have to do a lot of looking. If you want a Mauser, you might consider getting one with "very good" wood and metal, and be willing to mess around a bit with what's inside the tube. It'll save you some bucks, and the end result is that you'll get the bore you want. Too bad we don't live closer together. I have eight or ten you could look at just to get an idea of what the average is.

HA! You'll also get lots of practice at stripping the gun until you can do it blindfolded! <G>

waksupi
06-27-2005, 06:06 PM
Anyone ever handled or shot any of the Spanish Mausers?

StarMetal
06-27-2005, 06:12 PM
Once again. The bore on my unissued Yugo 48B was as smooth, sharp, and shiney as a Sako. No machine marks, read no machine marks. If Charger is picky on bore the unissued Yugo is the way to go.

Joe

Buckshot
06-27-2005, 06:14 PM
.............Joe, the M48's are nice rifles, and no doubt you can get one that's never been fired. However they can have a tendancy to be a bit rough around the edges. I've never owned one, but I've handled a few and shot a couple. I'm not putting them down a-tall, but my favorite boltguns are basicly the Mauser, DWM-Loewe-FN-Steyr, pre and mid war contract rifles. Well and the Swedes too, to come down to it, so am biased a bit.

My brother gave me a CZ24 he'd bought maybe 4-5 years ago at Big 5 in AZ, and it's slick as snot so far as exterior fit and a very well finished specimen. Alas and boo-hoo it has a barrel that looks like a boiler flue.

If I had my 01 FFL or a C&R FFL still, and had the opportunity to pick up any of the M48's at a good price, I'd sure do it.

............Buckshot

grumble
06-27-2005, 06:33 PM
Once again. The bore on my unissued Yugo 48B was as smooth, sharp, and shiney as a Sako. No machine marks, read no machine marks. If Charger is picky on bore the unissued Yugo is the way to go.

Joe


Ok, Chargar, let me revise my advice. If you want an excellent bore, have Joe pick out your rifle for you. He's the only one who ALWAYS gets perfect rifles.

Oldfeller
06-27-2005, 07:16 PM
Ric asks:

"Anyone ever handled or shot any of the Spanish Mausers?"


I have handled many many many of them looking for a good one -- the 7x57 bores that exist now are pretty well pitted/corroded in the bore walls and are quite worn on the land tops.

The cherries off the 7mm Spanish tree were all picked a long long time ago.

The "newer" Spanish/Mexican 7.62 bores still tend to be well worn with a lot of muzzle damage from endless barracks cleaning. Some good ones exist, but they are luck of the draw finding a good one this late in the game. I spent literally 10 years looking for a "like new bore" .308 case-equivalent Spanish/Mexican short carbine and count myself lucky to have finally found one (1). I bought it on the spot -- didn't even haggle very much on the price.

They shoot about like a worn mauser shoots ... the more it is worn the worse it shoots. Mine shoots jacketed just as good as I can see to aim the stock mil sights (my eyes are shot -- need to put a trigger and a scope on the gun to see what it can really do).

Oldfeller

jethrow strait
06-27-2005, 07:39 PM
Think you are wise to wait, buy 'hands on' and check out the next gun show!
Seems to me that as someone with two fine Mausers in the closet, A Persian 98-22 and a Lowe Argentine 91, you might never be happy with a 48 from a long gone People's Republic. No matter how much razzle dazzle Mitchel Arms creates with their heavy margins on theses commie orphans, they are the bottom of the barrel as far as Mausers go. Good truck beater gun, if you get one that shoots. Nada mas! Too bad you ain't a zonie, so I could fix you up with a fine shooting DWM Brazilian M1908 or similar for a hundred bucks or so, worthy company for what you already have. jethrow

StarMetal
06-27-2005, 08:11 PM
Well my 48 was new unisssued, my Yugo SKS was new unissued, my Finn 39 has a .310 groove on it which I hear is correct... so yeah I lucked out. Tell me how you can buy a brand new unissued rifle and not have it have a good bore? As far as the Yugoslavs being communist it wasn't by their choice and they aren't anymore and besides that they do some of the finest machine work around. The Germans aren't the only people that can make good stuff.

Joe

Char-Gar
06-27-2005, 08:26 PM
Thanks for all the help boys...

Jumptrap
06-27-2005, 09:03 PM
Fellers,

I haven't read this entire thread but let me toss a few morsels out your way.

Once upon a time, long, long, ago, I bought every Mauser i could lay my hands on. It was a sickness. i woke up one day, looked at all them piled up in every corner and came to the conclusion, if you've seen one, you've seen'em all. Yes, some were in better condition than others, but aside from the different 'chrome', they were all the same.....just like an SKS or AK variant. Right then and there, I decided to have a sale and one guy left here with 14. The rest followed suit soon thereafter. I have one 308 built on a czech action and 4 or 5 rifles built on 1909 Argentine action...only because they already have hinged floorplates. The metallurgy in these rifles differs very little....with exception for the Spanish varieties. External finish runs from excellent to rough....but the innards show little difference. The fact beneath this is due to Mauser/DWM/FN/CZ all sold this technology and in the beginning it came from Mauser Werke. Mauser licensed the Czechs to make their own rifles. Ludvig Lowe was an industrialist who eventually owned either outright or controlling interest in every one of these concerns. Essentially, many plants turning out the same product under one umbrella. If they sold the license, they sent the specifications. Some countires later modified some of this to their own liking, but basically it was unchanged from the original design specs. All of this information can be found in Mauser Bolt Rifles by Ludwig Olson. So, whether the country was run by Marxists, Nazi's, Generallisimos, Kings, Princes, Potentates or the Republican Guard...the manufacture of the arms remains the same.

jethrow strait
06-27-2005, 10:49 PM
Have tried all the Spanish(as in 'Spain')Mausers; they were 45 years behind the world in adopting the 98 action---not until 1943. Guess they were unduly impressed with shooting us up good with the 1893 in Cuba. Had an 1893 that was real clean but never got it to shoot well; wouldn't hold a candle to my 1895 Chilean, but have a bubbaized 1893 now that shoots a bit better Have had a couple 1916 short rifle variants. Oddly enough, the 7mm shot only so-so, but the .308 abortion of same---rifle just given to me by my regular shop, sans bolt---has shot incredibly well, better than a heavy Parker Hale target barrel on a VZ24 action. Go Figure! When 'neutral' Spain adopted the '98 short rifle in 1943, they went with a virtual K98k clone---the so-called 'Catalan' actions of same have been widely used for sporters in decades past, being a bit cheaper. My 1944 Fuerza Aerea variant of the 43 Spanish Mauser is like new(of course, it's an air f0rce infantry rifle)and the only impressive one of the lot---the weird 1916/.308 is in a world of it's own that I will never understand. Always said I would never own one of those seemingly unsafe conversions(J.P White assertions aside); have "evolved" to saying I would never sell one. jethrow

StarMetal
06-27-2005, 11:00 PM
Jethrow...the 7mm probably had questionable bore dimensions were as when they made those 308 the could manufacture with better tolerances. I've certainly had some 7x57's that could clean your 308's clock.

Joe

VP
06-27-2005, 11:15 PM
If it needs to be a 98 Mauser in short rifle configuration with an excellent bore than those two are the most practical choices in today's market. I'd go with the VZ 24, better quality but you'll need to be a little more careful about getting one with a good bore than with the post-war Yugo 48s. Most of the VZ 24s on the market today date from the mid to late thirties, Romanian contract guns heavily used in the eastern front and elsewhere. Nuthin purty about them, but good Czech actions. There are so many Mausers out there it might be worth pokin around a bit; never know what will turn up (for me, that's half of the pleasure of mausermania) ... WWII era kraut K98ks also, but they are overpriced as shooters due to the Nazi memorabilia fad. Best of all, imho, would be a German or Austrian made South American contract Mauser, from the pre-World War I era, in the short rifle or carbine configuration. jethrow
My blood warms at this topic-- Jethrow, you say that there are Rumanian Contract guns? I thought that all the Rumanians did was get overrun on the flanks of 6th Army at Stalingrad-- they made rifles too? Not just bring Mannlichers out of inventory?

How about that Nazi fad-- put the crooked cross on anything, gun or book, and raise the price 200%-- always a market.

Were there any Austrian-made South American contract Mauser rifles? Did Steyr make anything for South America?

Not sure that the South American contract Mausers will suit him, as he wants the 98 action-- were there any pre-1914 South American Mauser contract rifles with 98 action. I think he's after the "large ring"-- probably for no good reason. But will he find one in South America?

Small ring Mauser actions are fine. Cut up a Chilean Mauser 7x57 or a mismatched Swede m/96 or a Spanish. Or get the VZ.24 (lit. Model 24) or, get the Yugo 1948 ex-Nazi with Peltegleir/WaffenAmt buffed off.

All are the supreme works of the greatest gun designer ever, except perhaps John Browning.

Peter Paul Mauser was such a visionary in his designing that his rifle AND his cartridge were both copied by the U.S. Government, which paid royalties to Mauser Waffenfabrik and to Deutsche Waffenfabrik (DWM) for patent infringement on 7 patent violations.

Look at the outline of the 7.92 x 57 mm Spitzer and again at the A-4 rocket (V-2)-- first supersonic rocket-- cannot improve on perfection--

Shoot your '03 Springfield, and enjoy it, but it is a copy of a Mauser. Why not shoot the real thing? The Gew 98 is still available. I have 2, and should get more.

Go for that CZ Brno with the Lion-- the VZ 24.

A Salute to Peter Paul Mauser.

VP
06-27-2005, 11:18 PM
It is about time to add a new cast bullet rifle to the collection. I want a Mauser ... not the long rifle but the short barrel version. I don't want a collector's piece as I will probably put a receiver sight on it. I do want a primo shooter with an excellent bore for cast bullets. I want a 98 action. What do you suggest and where do I look?
I noticed something in your question that is disturbing ... you do not want a collector's piece?

Sir, ALL Mausers are collector's pieces!

StarMetal
06-27-2005, 11:24 PM
Brazil had 1909 large ring 98's made for them in 7x57, probably some other had 98's also like the 1909 Argentines in 7.65, there were also some 98's in 30-06.

Joe

VP
06-27-2005, 11:26 PM
VZ 24, also sometimes listed as CZ 24. Sarco, Century Arms, most any of the vendors. There is another good one that doesn't come to mind immediately, but I'm sure Buckshot or someone else will remember it. Seems like it may be Belgium made, but I don't know for sure.

Must be Belgian (Argentine) Mauser, 7.65 x 53.5 mm? The 1888 or 1889 Belgian Mauser rifle?

Czechoslovakia, part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, made a slick switch in 1918 and came out as an offended party, and ended up getting reparations from Germany-- after the Versailles Treaty. Reparations arrived in the form of equipment from German weapons factories-- machining equipment to make rifles. Thus, Brno became an arms center, making rifles in the 1920s on the equipment on which rifles were make 10 years earlier-- equipment from Erfurt or DWM Berlin or Mauser Oberndorf. If you don't have a VZ-24, get several right away-- I regret I only own one, but it is a prized possession. In 7.92 x 57 mm caliber (8mm Mauser), one of the best calibers made.

VP
06-27-2005, 11:41 PM
Chargar, did you check out that link I gave you to Aim Surplus? www.aimsurplus.com/ They have lots of Mausers, including VZ24s ($175), and they are an honorable, easy to deal with company. They also have the Mauser 24/7, sold with several accessories, in VG condition for $120, or Excellent condition for $140. I would suggest calling them. Mausers are not going to be coming in better condition or lower prices anytime soon. I'm glad you're not dealing with Mitchell. I had a bad experience with them, wherein they cheated me ... I want him to suffer from Aids and Cancer for several years first.
Scrounger thanks for the word. I cannot think of a better purchase than a 1924 Mauser rework for $120, with accessories-- tell us more. I think I'll get the $140 one on your word, even though I don't know what I have in the garage, and I tripped over a m/91 Argentine the other night--

VP
06-28-2005, 12:20 AM
... as someone with two fine Mausers in the closet, A Persian 98-22 and a Lowe Argentine 91, you might never be happy with a 48 from a long gone People's Republic. No matter how much razzle dazzle Mitchel Arms creates with their heavy margins on theses commie orphans, they are the bottom of the barrel as far as Mausers go. Good truck beater gun, if you get one that shoots. Nada mas! Too bad you ain't a zonie, so I could fix you up with a fine shooting DWM Brazilian M1908 or similar for a hundred bucks or so, worthy company for what you already have. jethrow Well chosen words-- The Loewe m/91 cannot be surpassed, certainly not by a Yugo rework with the insult to scrub off the maker's markings from the receiver. Maybe by a DWM m/95 or CG m/96. Send me a box of your 1908 Brazilians in 7mm Mauser caliber, best rifle caliber ever; I'll pay up front.

jethrow strait
06-28-2005, 12:27 AM
Yes, them Prussians were enjoying his 1871 bolt gun when we was still using Allin conversion Civil War muskets. About to dump my my only non-Mauser Hun bolt gun---an 1888/14 Commision Rifle, a rifle designed by committee if there ever was one. Alas, I have never been able to snuggle up to mine as Buckshot has to his, even though it's a very clean Gibbs rearsenal job.

I may have been less than clear in my blather about the VZ24 Romanian contract rifles, made by the Czechs for the Romanians(all have certain letter prefixes). Only thing for the Rumanians to do as good Nazi stooges(Iron Guard)was to carry them to the slaughter on the steppes.

Ah yes, a veritable plethora of Pre-WWI Teutonic 98s in South America during that so-called Belle Epoque, when the hun sought military hedgemony there. Yes, Austria got into the act with the Chilean 1912s. I just dumped one at a very good price on consignment locally. By the way, I recently read some business report that Steyr is no more, and their property sold to a company making toasters or toilets or somesuch 'essential'. Ignoble end, if it's true. My favorite of the pre-war SA Mausers, the so-called 'short action' Peruvian 1909s, large ring receiver with small ring threads for all the 1891 surplus barrels them poor Peruvians had dumped on them by previous Imperial Hun delegations. While the Czech lion crest is impressive, there is nothing quite as dazzeling Mauser-wise as the 1909 Peruvian 98 receiver in the white with the florid Peruvian crest atop and underlined boldly with MAUSER ORIGINAL! jethrow

C1PNR
06-28-2005, 12:28 AM
Anyone ever handled or shot any of the Spanish Mausers?
Just wonder about this topic. I'm considering buying one of the 1916 (I think) Spanish "Guardia" carbines in 7.62 x 51. Not as a collector, but rather to rebarrel to 7.62 x 39 "Ruskie Shortski." I presume this is one of the '93 models.

The idea is to have something that is a full sized "rifle" and at the same time mild enough to train new shooters (read "Grandkids").:-)

And, of course, I'll probably just have to check it out with every load under the sun, and maybe some from the dark (J word) side.;-)

Is there a negative to this idea?

jethrow strait
06-28-2005, 12:56 AM
1916 carbines are just 1893 actions with a deeper magazine cut and a gas vent hole on the side of the receiver. X39 like X51 are modern cartridges designed for 50K plus pressure to be shot in a rifle desined for 40K when it was new. I just shoot cast in my 7.62X51; think I'd destroy it before selling it to anyone other than a cognoscenti friend. jethrow

VP
06-28-2005, 12:59 AM
Anyone ever handled or shot any of the Spanish Mausers? Yes -- no better rifle ever made, as far as the Loewe Berlin or DWM rifles. I have the Chilean contract model 1895 (m/95) Mauser in 7x57 mm caliber, best military rifle caliber ever design, except maybe for a couple others. No bias here!

Not sure about the Spanish production models of several decades later ... have to check with others on that.

And how about ol' Sam Elliot in Rough Riders! And Tom Berenger-- there were some nice m/93 Spanish Mausers shown at distance, in the enemy lines. My favorite scene: The Confederate Veterans, in their faded and torn uniforms, proudly saluting the U.S. troops on their way to battle. My other favorate scene: Sam Elliots's reaction to the stunning vocal version of "Garry Owen."

VP
06-28-2005, 01:16 AM
Austria got into the act with the Chilean 1912s. I just dumped one at a very good price on consignment locally. By the way, I recently read some business report that Steyr is no more, and their property sold to a company making toasters or toilets or somesuch 'essential'. Ignoble end, if it's true. My favorite of the pre-war SA Mausers, the so-called 'short action' Peruvian 1909s, large ring receiver with small ring threads for all the 1891 surplus barrels them poor Peruvians had dumped on them by previous Imperial Hun delegations. While the Czech lion crest is impressive, there is nothing quite as dazzeling Mauser-wise as the 1909 Peruvian 98 receiver in the white with the florid Peruvian crest atop and underlined boldly with MAUSER ORIGINAL! jethrow Jethrow, I managed to walk into the other room, where my 1912 Chilean 7x57 Mauser is leaning up against the door jam-- it is indeed marked "Modelo 1912 Waffenfabrik Steyr Austria" in gleaming while metal-- chromium Steel? Nickel?

If there is a better rifle, I do not know of it.

Any extra Steyrs, or 1909 Peruvians, can you box them up and UPS them to me? I'll send a check.

Maybe a better rifle is the Carl Gustaf 1898 m/96 that I sold to "Stinky" at Armory of Orange for $190 in 1998, and he then later sold it to someone else-- why didn't I keep it??? ... must have been 98% blue. I am now depressed. I think I'll go get something to eat ...

jethrow strait
06-28-2005, 07:02 AM
Yes VP, it's a shame we can't talk Chargar into a Carl Gustav 96/38 if he needs a 'short rifle'. Those Swedes are the only Mausers I can't ever bring myself to trade off. I generally tread lightly on this subject for fear of provoking brother Jumptrap into one of his Finn Mosin tirades. Besides, I agree with much of what he says. But even the Finns could not completely fix that awful Moisin trigger, let alone the stubby little bolt handle and generally awful aesthetics of the Mosins. But as Jump says, beauty is as beauty does! jethrow

StarMetal
06-28-2005, 10:00 AM
Jethrow what makes you think the Finn 39 doesn't have a decent trigger?

Joe

Jumptrap
06-28-2005, 10:10 AM
Yes VP, it's a shame we can't talk Chargar into a Carl Gustav 96/38 if he needs a 'short rifle'. Those Swedes are the only Mausers I can't ever bring myself to trade off. I generally tread lightly on this subject for fear of provoking brother Jumptrap into one of his Finn Mosin tirades. Besides, I agree with much of what he says. But even the Finns could not completely fix that awful Moisin trigger, let alone the stubby little bolt handle and generally awful aesthetics of the Mosins. But as Jump says, beauty is as beauty does! jethrow

Jethrow,

You'll get no tirades from me. I have been infected with Mauseritus and survived, made a full recovery. Fine rifles in most every respect, but made for a purpose and so, they have their built in foibles. Mosin's and Springfields and all the rest, the same way. The only Mosins i respect are the Finnish rebuilds....sort of a sports car built on a truck frame. But, none of these rifles are sporters and were never intended to be target rifles. They have long throats to swallow filthy ammunition, slow locktimes and all the other stuff attendent to a military rifle.....which was designed to be strong and dependable......and made for killing enemy soldiers, reliably.......and nothing else. All this 'workmanship' BS that folks go on and on about was the norm back in those days, simply because the makers knew no other way. The manufacturers, nor the governments who bought them, never set out to buy fine firearms to equip their armies. They sourced the market, found somebody to supply their needs and bought accordingly. had the US Government been in the business to supply arms worldwide, the 1903 Springfield would have been more widespread. Keep in mind, Paul Mauser and all of the other makers of 98 type weapons were in business to make money...nothing more or less. They had a reliable product and found great markets for them. They mass produced these guns as economically as they could and delivered them in huge numbers. The forging of a 98 action was as routine as filling a bottle of Coke and captured about as much attention from the men who made them......just all in a day's work. No need in getting all wrapped up in some nostalgic dream of little german elves working magic in some dream factory. I am sure the mauser works were sweat shops and men worked their asses off turning out quantities of parts....that some other oaf assembled. I woke up from the dream years ago and got over it. Making mauser rifles was all about supply and demand.....just another successful product whose time came and went like Model T Fords.

Bob S
06-28-2005, 12:38 PM
I only own one M48; it was new and unissued. Beautiful looking bore. Very hard bolt lift, difficult extraction with even mild loads, and would not eject. I polished the chamber with emery and a Scotch Brite pad; cocking and extraction cams required required stoning and polishing; the ejector lug on the receiver was just too fat for the ejector to move at all, and I tried several ejectors from the Parts Box. I fixed that by filing, and discovered while filing that the steel was very, very soft. After all that work, it was "satisfactory". I do not like the late K98k-style of stock with cupped butt plate because the pitch is all wrong for me, so that needed to go: that's just a personal preference, though. It reposed in an FN Model 24 stock for awhile, got a heavy .308 barrel, and an FN 24 bolt with forged handle. Right now it only has a Redfield Series 70 backsight and Lyman 77 foresight, no glass. I have not fired it much, but I will be watching it closely for lug set-back because of the softness of the steel.

In contrast, the 24/47's have been completely functional out of the box; fit and finish is W-A-Y better than any M48 I have seen. The stock fits me better (and much nicer wood!), and the sling is in the right place. There is the straight bolt handle, but it actually gives you more leverage than a turned-down one. With just a little bit of practice, ten shots in 60 or 70 seconds from the shoulder (standing to sitting; or standing to prone, respectively) is a no-brainer. The FN model 24 bolt will work with the Yugo barrel if you grind the feed/extraction lip off the bolt face: if rebarreling with a "regular" '98 barrel (i.e., no "safety breech" annulus), you can use the FN bolt unmodified.

Your mileage may vary, but for a shooter, I'll take a 24/47 over a 48 any day. I may pick up another 48 and/or 48A, not shoot it and just put it away. Interest in the Yugo's has grown since Branko's book came out, and I already see the prices going out of sight.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

StarMetal
06-28-2005, 01:01 PM
Must be like cars then huh Bob S. You got a lemon 48. Mine's nothing like that what-so-ever. Easy bolt lift, great extraction (even with super hot heavy bullet loads) and there's no lug set back on mine. I have fired alot of military ammo and handloads from mine in addition to cast. Buckshot had made mention how the unissued 48 had a rough functioning action. I wonder how many brand new unissued 93's, 95's, and German 98's he has worked? Just about any rifle when new is going to be somewhat rough until it breaks in. In general a mauser action doesn't rank new the top for smoothness. Out of all the 98 action rifles I've owned the only one that was smooth as Buckshot claimed the one he mentioned, is my Brazilian 1909. I even have a CZ 550 new modern made mauser action and it's rough.

Joe

VP
06-28-2005, 01:10 PM
I generally tread lightly on this subject for fear of provoking brother Jumptrap into one of his Finn Mosin tirades. jethrow The best rifle the Finns had was in 1940-- Sweden loaned them thousands of m/96 Swedish Mausers. Those Finnish m/96s have a nice stamp on them-- and they did well in combat, fighting the Soviets. Nice film on this called "Winter War" or "Talvisota" with authentic equipment-- early Soviet tanks. I'll look at it again for rifles.

jethrow strait
06-28-2005, 02:55 PM
and we our 'Mauseritis'; we all carry the wounds differently. I proudly and contemptuously ignored Mausers altogether til sometime in my mid-forties, being a sunshine-boy child of locktime and Jack O'Connor hitherto. But as Remchester went more and more 'bean-counter", and every 'improved' this or that was just a lie for 'more cheap', I came to appreciate the old war dogs more and more. I find your simplistic economic determinism too cynical and unworthy of the possibilities of the human spirit. I find the workmanship of Oberndorf in the Belle Epoque extraordinary and something to celebrated, right along with long rifles of the American frontier! jethrow

P.S. On a lighter note, and in recognition of your abiding respect for values in personal matters, I thank you for the suggestion that I go out and buy a first rifle for the infant Jethrow right now! I just got him a "chipmunk" 22RF you-cock-it single shot, bought in the month of his birth and to be presented on the appropriate bday by his parents. Knowing his dad, that's likely to be around age 6. In Arizonie kids can hunt small game at any age with an adult, and they can go after big game at age 10, if they have taken the Game and Fish hunter safety course.

Char-Gar
06-28-2005, 05:58 PM
OK guys..I did the deed..Mauser wise. I bought a unfired Persian 98/29 barrel action from Samco. These were made by CZ in Brno about 1930. I have one of the complete rifles and the workmanship is as good as any commerical rifle of the day or today either. I have in my closet a primo mauser claro stock blank I bought from Fajen in 1959. I reckon it is dry by now! I also have a nib Lyman 48M sight in the goodie box.

So here is "da plan".. I will cut the barrel to 24" and finish up the rifle in a germanic sporter style. I think I will even put a butter knife bolt handle on it. I will slick up the factory trigger, hand polish the metal and have it blued. It will be behind one already in process, so it will make a nice retirement project.

Anyway..I have solved my Mauser problem. The barreled action cost me $170.00 and the stock and sight were paid for many years ago. I little sweat, s a few bucks here and there and I am in business. I will post the photos in about four years. I just needed you Mauser gurus to help me make up my mind.

Well, it is not milsurp, but I have a Garand, 03A3, Win. 1917, 2 Krag, Mosin, Mk IV Brit., Swede 96 and Persian 98/29 to gobble up cast bullets. Along with a half dozen 30-30s, two .308s and a couple of commerical 30-06s, plus four 45-70s, two 25-20s and a few more I can't remember to keep me busy.

Thanks for the help guys..you really came through for me. Now about that great Krag blank in my closet....

StarMetal
06-28-2005, 06:43 PM
Charger

I was on the Samco sight and far as I could see those actions only are not unissued. They had two types, one slightly used for a lesser price and I guess the one you got which they listed as select, not unissued. Did I missed something?

Joe

Char-Gar
06-28-2005, 08:26 PM
Joe...Almost all, if not all of those rifles are unissued, but have been stored since 1930. Some survived the storage better than others. I bought a low grade rifle a few years ago and the bolt had never been in the action since it left Brno. It was unfired. Those rifles are graded by how dinged up they are and whether they have matching bayonets and paperwork. The high grade ones are fctory new, come with a bayonet serial numbered to the rifle and the factory test target and other paper work.

The barrel actions come from rifles whose stocks were broken. The difference in price has to do with the quality of the blue. None have rust or pitting and all have pristine bores. As I am going to refinish the metal anyway, there was no need to spend an extra $10.00 for a little better blue.

The stocks on these rifles are lucious European walnut worthy of a fine sporter. One of these barrel actions are one of the great bargins around. I have been thinking about it for a couple of years, but this latest Mauser thread pushed me over the line.

brimic
07-01-2005, 12:23 AM
I've had a few Yugo M48s and quite frankly I've never been really impressed with them. I still have one, its very accurate but its only a range gun as the safety never worked on it. There is something wrong with the sear geometry on the rifle where its impossible to engage the safety unless you hook a cartridge rim on the cocking piece to pull it back a fraction of an inch to allow the safety to cam in front ot it. The firing pin also has peened shoulders from dry firing it a couple of times, something that should not happen with a properly made mauser 98 pattern rifle. The M48A I used to have but sold, had really sticky extraction.

VZ-24s- nicely made rifles, but most seem to be preety well shot out. I've ben looking for a good one for a couple of years, but I either find one that is counterbored with a questionable bore or one that costs well over $200.

Yugo K98s- Not to be confused with M48s- these are captured German K98s that have been rearsenalled and stamped with a yugo crest. Good guns and usually very reasonably priced for a K98.

Czech post war K98s- these were probably assembled at BRNO after the war from leftover parts, SAMCOGLOBAL.COM sells them as 'wintertriggerguard K98s' . The one I have cost me about $250, is pretty rough, rude, and crude, but is a good shooter, and potentially would be a much better shooter if I ever had the trigger smoothend out a bit. The one I have was basicly a brand new rifle when I bought it.

98/22s and 98/29s- If you aren't put off by a 29" barrel I highly reccommend one of these. Either one will be a top notch shooter, provided that it isn't worn out if a 98/22. The 98/22s can still be had for around $100 if you can find one, and the 98/29s go for about twice that or more.

There are also Russian captured K98s out there that are priced under $200, but I can't comment on these as I don't own one.

brimic
07-01-2005, 12:28 AM
Re: lower grade persians...

I bought a 98/29 a couple of years ago, it was the lowest grade that samco had. The Blueing is probably 95%+, just a few scratches away from perfect. The stock had the finish worn off around the wrist and also a bit on the forearm with a couple of compression dents. The rifle didn't look like it had been fired much if at all, there was no fouling in the barrel and the bolt face was free of any brass fouling.

BOOM BOOM
07-16-2005, 11:13 PM
HI,
Anyone know if/where i could get a model 98 action in 7mm mauser?

Char-Gar
07-18-2005, 10:01 PM
Well..This thread has taken on a life of it's own..I guess Mausers get our juices flowing. I picked up my Persian (Brno) 29/98 barreled action today from my transfer dealer. It is in very fine shape about 95% blue, no rust of any kind and the bore is bright and sharp as new mint dime.

I tried it in my 1959 vintage Fajen semi-inletted stock blank and it is going to work just fine with very little inletting. The stock was ordered for a FN 400 action.

The Lylman 57 sight is going to work just fine, and I have a front sight ramp off a 1950's vintage Remingto 721. I will cut the barrel to 24" to give me some weight for steady shooting. This will give me a muzzle and final barrel step of .650. I won't turn the steps off the barrel. They serve a purpose make for a stiff accurate barrel and I don't find the steps offensive to the eye. I have ordered a butter knife bolt handle from Brownells.

I will remove the montecarlo comb from the stock and finish it up fairly slim with a short euro style fore end for quick off hand jump shooting. I will smooth up the military trigger and install a set screw to take out the first stage. I think a barrel band front sling swivel is in order.

I should have a fine rifle when it is all done.

KCSO
07-18-2005, 10:12 PM
Sounds almost like a pre war Mauser Sporter. A set of double set triggers and you will have the whole gun. If it shoots as good as most of them you will be one happy camper.

Char-Gar
07-18-2005, 10:47 PM
A good double set trigger would be just fine, but I don't have one and I am way to cheap to buy one. I am building this rifle out of my parts box on the cheap. Now if anybody has a set they want to donate to the project.....

NVcurmudgeon
07-19-2005, 01:08 AM
Chargar, Nothing wrong with a GOOD two-stage military pull. If you have a selection of Mauser parts try switching sears around. I had a K98k with a twenty mule team trigger, and switched a sear that came from I dunno where. Later I switched the original K98k sear into my Yugo 1948. In both cases the pulls went from awful to decent. I don't think I willl be able to do much good with the original Yugo sear, it's as rough as a cob!

Char-Gar
07-19-2005, 08:27 AM
NV..Thanks for the tip. I agree there is nothing wrong with a good military trigger pull. I have worked over several 03 triggers by polishing all the bearing surfaces and reducing the depth of the notch on the bolt cocking piece.

I don't think I will mess with the cocking piece notch on this Mauser, but I will polish all bearing surfaces and I do have several Mauser triggers in my parts bin from days gone by.