Color change - what does it mean?

[Poppy]

Hello all, new member here, trying to learn all I can about casting. Been reloading for 35 yrs, just got started casting. I have obtained a Lee 20lb bottom pour pot and .357 158 gr mold (tumble lube) and a .45 cal 255 gr RNFP mold (not tumble lube), both Lee brand. I've made ingots from wheel weights, and poured about 500 bullets ea from the two molds. I mixed up some of the 45-45-10 lube I read about here and used that to lube with (tumble lubed all bullets). I trimmed the .45 bullets to .452 with the Lee push through bullet sizer before loading and they weigh in at around 258 gr. I loaded the .38 bullets as cast, (didn't buy the sizer for that caliber) they measure about .358 or a little larger and weigh in at around 161 gr. I have shot the .38's in Ruger Speed Six, GP100 4" and S&W mod. 65 3". They group fairly well (2" at 20 yds. except GP a little tighter) with no leading. The .45's were loaded and shot in Ruger New Vaquero and a New Model Flattop .45 that Lypsies put out a couple months ago (both stainless guns). I got leading with commercial lead bullets with a variety of powders and loads, the cylinders were tight so I obtained the Manson reamer and reamed the cylinders. Leading decreased but my new cast bullets giving me some lead as well, but they shoot good groups (1 - 1.5 in at 20 yds). I know I need to slug the barrels but have no pure lead yet to make a soft bullet, only wheel weights.

O.K. now my question. (1) Since I tumble lubed the .45 bullets (non tumble lub design) can I expect leading anyway, or is it possible to tumble lub this bullet and not get leading. Load was 8.0 and 8.5 gr. Unique. The leading isn't severe but of course I know little about what I'm doing so I need direction. I was hoping to tumble lube everything I cast but don't know if this is realistic. At this time I only plan to cast for handgun. .38, 9mm, 40 S&W and .45.

2nd question - (2) I noticed when the molten lead level was decreasing in the pot while I was casting that the color at the surface of the lead changed to a copper hue. Now I imagine that means something but don't have a clue what it is. The temp gauge on the Lee unit is graduated from 1 to 10 and I believe it was on about "8" while I was casting. Don't have a thermometer yet. What does the color change mean and is it good, bad, or indifferent?

I've been reading and learning from this sight for a few months now and knew nothing about casting before I got started. Seems like the more you learn the more questions there are. Now that I've gotten my feet wet I will probably have a few more questions. Advice welcomed. Thanks

[Bill*]

(1) No Problem tumbling non-TL boolits
(2) I wouldn't worry. Pot got hotter with less lead in it maybe?

[44man]

Yeah, temp change. "8" is a little hot for WW's.
Flux more often too.

[jmsj]

Poppy,
First welcome to the site.
Those are the first two molds that I started with. As far as the Lee 452-255-RNFP leading using tumble lubing, I think it would depend on bullet fit and how hard you are pushing it. At standard 45 colt pressures or a little above, if the fit is right, I don't think you would have a problem. I have tumble lubed many non tumble lube design bullets using Recluse's 45/45/10 method with good results.
My Lee pots also go up in tempature as the lead goes down. I use a thermometer to adjust the tempature as the lead level goes down. The color change is probably oxidation. I flux the mix well and leave a layer of kitty litter on top of the melt to make an air barrier to the melt.
Good luck, jmsj

[stubshaft]

The numbers on the Lee pot do not give an accurate indication of how hot the alloy is. If you took two Lee pots and turned them on to the number six, their temperatures can vary by over a hundred degrees.

[runfiverun]

the pot did heat the alloy more as it got lower.
the gold you seen on top was the tin oxidizing up there.
i don't ever let my pots get below 3/4's full.

[Poppy]

"the gold you seen on top was the tin oxidizing up there."

So is this a problem? If so, do I just stir the pot, or flux it or what should I do if anything?

[41 mag fan]

Theres several threads on here about pot and cast temps and fluxing. Very good reading.

[williamwaco]

LLA is an excellent lube. If you get leading with this load, the problem is not with the lube.

Almost all leading is caused by bullet fit.

See: http://www.reloadingtips.com/pages/exp_111201a_lla_test.htm


For extensive test results of LLA bullet Lube on both micro groove and conventional bullets.


.

[runfiverun]

here are at least 3 threads currently discussing fluxing and such right now.

[Bill*]

"the gold you seen on top was the tin oxidizing up there."

So is this a problem? If so, do I just stir the pot, or flux it or what should I do if anything?

Yup, just flux it back in. Oh Yeah.......Welcome to the madness :groner:

[Hardcast416taylor]

I believe, by my own experience with LEE pots, your temp. is a tad high. The colors you are seeing is indeed the tin and other trace metals seperating out. I would try fluxing immediately and hope you can hope for some of the tin to be blended back in. If you skim this material out, there goes some good tin into the scrap can. A layer of cat litter on top of the molten pot at the outset would both keep the tin from oxidising and seperating from the melt and help keep pot heat more even.Robert

[Poppy]

Thanks for the info. We happen to have a cat and some kitty litter, so I
am ready for my next casting session.

[Sonnypie]

Poppy,
If you get one of THESE (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=102777&highlight=NOE+thermometer), you could stop wondering. ;-)

[runfiverun]

not even gonna look at sonny's link, i know it's a picture of a thermometer....

[prs]

The stainless Vaqueros and New Vaquero I have shot with the Lee 452-255-RF digested them just fine with no sizing other than the barrel. Mine also had to have the cylinder throats opened so as not to be smaller than groove diameter. You do not know your groove diamenter, so what size reamer did you use? Your barrels are "probably" .451 or .4515 as all 4 of mine are. After reaming, a .452 boolit just barely hangs up in the cylinder throats and my favored .454 boolits can be pushed through with not too much resistance.

Get your metal in the casting pot up to temp, flux with saw dust and a steel putty knife, then top the fluxed alloy with an inch or so of clay based kitty litter or oil dry granules. Cast hot and fast at first with no intent to keep the boolits, just lay them and the spru waste back on top of the clay granules where they will slowly sink back in. When your mould is hot enough to drop frosty boolits, reduce the pot temp from max to about 6 or 6 1/2 and start keeping them. With the 6 cavity mould keep gently pressure on the two main handles (stay off of the spru handle) for a few seconds and then cut the spru a couple seconds later with ease. Drop onto thick terry cloth for nice softer boolits or in water if you want hard boolits. My copies of the mould drop real close to .453 with ww alloy air cooled.

prs