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nathan619
02-08-2012, 08:45 AM
I've only been reloading for a little while and have a question.

I have a Lee classic turret press. I have an M&P 40c loaded with 4.2g of WST, 175g Lee molded cast boolits.

Should I be using the Lee FCD to crimp or should I be doing it with the seating/crimping die? I've heard not to use the FCD on cast lead boolits and I've heard you can. Which is right?

captaint
02-08-2012, 10:14 AM
Nathan - Welcome to the forum. Lots of great folks here, you'll see. Now to your question. I've always thought it is more a matter of how you set the FC die up. My experience has told me if you carefully set the die to BARELY taper crimp enough for the cartridge to chamber properly, you should be OK. I think guys sometimes over crimp - squeeze the boolit down in diameter - leading follows. Again, this is MY experience, and I should say I've only used one Lee FC die and in one caliber - 45ACP. Didn't have any leading problems though. I don't use this die anymore. I got Lyman dies and I'm happier all around. Let us know how it goes. enjoy Mike

Bwana
02-08-2012, 10:28 AM
It is always better to seat and crimp in seperate operations. As far as the Lee FC die goes that has been beat to death on this forum. I use it for my 40 IPSC loads; but, I only use R-P brass which is thinner and does not result in any sizing down of the boolit. I am sure there will be others along shortly as we love to discuss this topic.

tgator
02-08-2012, 12:05 PM
Remember not to apply too much of any crimp on a cartridge that head-spaces on the mouth of the case. If it gets pushed too deep only BAD things can happen.

Tim

rsrocket1
02-08-2012, 12:17 PM
Hello Nathan, I also just started casting this past November. I got the pot handles and molds for 45, 40 and 357. The 401-175-TC is for my M&P 40 standard. I heard that you don't have to size your bullets unless they need it so I thought I'd save about $50 by not getting the Lee sizers unless I needed them.

For both the 45ACP and 40 S&W, I could only chamber the rounds if I seated the bullets to where the cone of the TC bullet touched the case mouth and only then if I ran the loaded cases through the FCD with just a touch of taper crimp, maybe just 1/6 turn after contact with the case was all that was needed to allow reliable chambering and a free drop using the "plunk test" in the barrel. I reduced the charge to compensate for the lower volume and they all shot just fine with no leading.

My cast bullets were measuring .4015 to .4025 with a few at .403. I have since bought the Lee sizers for the 45 and 40 and can now seat them to my normal lenghts (1.135" for the 40S&W). I still have the FCD in the last station of my LnL AP but I have it backed off to put no crimp on the case, just remove the flair.

Bottom line is I've found that running cast loads through the FCD does work so long as your bullets are not way oversized. If they are, I don't have an answer for that. My experience is that the FCD can make all the difference in smooth feeding with a cartridge that is just slightly too big and there is no loss in accuracy of the round.

sabrecross03
02-08-2012, 12:46 PM
+1, however, I do the slightest "taper crimp" and a slight "roll crimp" on my 45 ACP boolits. I shoot about 800 a month.


Nathan - Welcome to the forum. Lots of great folks here, you'll see. Now to your question. I've always thought it is more a matter of how you set the FC die up. My experience has told me if you carefully set the die to BARELY taper crimp enough for the cartridge to chamber properly, you should be OK. I think guys sometimes over crimp - squeeze the boolit down in diameter - leading follows. Again, this is MY experience, and I should say I've only used one Lee FC die and in one caliber - 45ACP. Didn't have any leading problems though. I don't use this die anymore. I got Lyman dies and I'm happier all around. Let us know how it goes. enjoy Mike

nathan619
02-08-2012, 01:39 PM
I also size my boolits through a Lee 401 sizer and all new (used) brass I run through a Lee bulge buster before I use them the first time.

After much reading, I've decided to go ahead and order a seperate Lee taper crimper and set that up in the 4th hole of my turret instead of the FCD. Plus I wanted to order an extra turret for my bulge buster and sizer anyhow.

What also made me wonder about the FCD on my lead rounds was alot of times the round would have rub/smudge/scape marks after going through the FCD and plus the lube from the side of the bullet would be smeared along the side of the brass.

Does all this sound right so far?

MtGun44
02-08-2012, 02:08 PM
Spend some time reading the many threads on the pistol FCD. Some love them,
and they have caused some serious problems for others. My personal opinion is
that they are a solution in search of a problem and does nothing whatsoever that
a normal set of dies won't do if they are correctly made and used.

Note that the rifle collet crimp type of Lee Factory Crimp Die is a totally different animal
and pretty much everyone holds this one in high regard. Highly mixed reviews on
the pistol FCDs.

Bill

mpmarty
02-08-2012, 02:18 PM
Unfortunately the pistol crimp die is made to size the cartridge as it is withdrawn from the die. There is a carbide ring at the mouth of the die that is made to work with JACKETED bullets of bore diameter or less. Cast boolits of bore plus a thou or two result in the exit ring sizing the boolit down to less than desired diameter and causes all sorts of problems among which are loose boolits that can be set back in the case causing excessive pressure etc. as well as just leading from being too small. The exit ring compresses the case and boolit inside it and then the case springs back leaving the boolit loose. Lee pistol factory crimp dies are in my opinion great fishing sinkers.

fredj338
02-08-2012, 03:49 PM
Spend some time reading the many threads on the pistol FCD. Some love them,
and they have caused some serious problems for others. My personal opinion is
that they are a solution in search of a problem and does nothing whatsoever that
a normal set of dies won't do if they are correctly made and used.

Note that the rifle collet crimp type of Lee Factory Crimp Die is a totally different animal
and pretty much everyone holds this one in high regard. Highly mixed reviews on
the pistol FCDs.

Bill
^^THIS^^ I have managed to load 100s of 1000s of rounds w/o a problem over the years & all w/o the LFCD. So I had to buy one & give it a try to see why the noob reloaders are buying into the LFCD hype. My limited testing w/ the 45acp showed a reduction in accuracy for soft plated bullets, didn't help my cast bullet or jacketed. So for me, I don't see the point of using something that MAY hurt my accuracy. Set your dies up correctly & no one NEEDS a LFCD to make high quality, reliable, accurate ammo. These groups were shot @ 50ft.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/200PTC.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/200LTC.jpg

Frank
02-08-2012, 04:02 PM
Lee factory crimp die will make a crimp groove. But maybe this is bad for accuracy. I need to find out.

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc472/BrucknerIsGodsMusic/IMG_0002.jpg

sig2009
02-08-2012, 05:44 PM
Don't do it. Swages the lead.

KYCaster
02-08-2012, 06:19 PM
Use the Lee FCD on handgun ammo and It'll swage your boolits, scratch your brass, crack your dilithium crystal, put a rift in your space/time continuum, make your hair fall out and cause your children to be born nekid!

And besides that, you can make perfectly good ammo without it. Lots of people have been doing it for a loooooooong time.

Jerry

HangFireW8
02-08-2012, 11:17 PM
Note that the rifle collet crimp type of Lee Factory Crimp Die is a totally different animal
and pretty much everyone holds this one in high regard. Highly mixed reviews on
the pistol FCDs.

Bill

Hehe... depends on what forum you're on. I've seen similar statements, only reversed.

HF

prs
02-09-2012, 12:59 AM
The problem is NOT the crimp function of the CFCD it is the post sizing function that can undo what you have worked hard to achieve with your cast boolits. We want a boolit just a tad over groove diameter and the post size can swage our carefully made objects of desire to undersized barrel leaders. You can still use the crimp collar of the CFCD in another larger die body or a powser through die body.

prs

milprileb
02-09-2012, 10:02 AM
^^THIS^^ I have managed to load 100s of 1000s of rounds w/o a problem over the years & all w/o the LFCD. So I had to buy one & give it a try to see why the noob reloaders are buying into the LFCD hype. My limited testing w/ the 45acp showed a reduction in accuracy for soft plated bullets, didn't help my cast bullet or jacketed. So for me, I don't see the point of using something that MAY hurt my accuracy. Set your dies up correctly & no one NEEDS a LFCD to make high quality, reliable, accurate ammo. These groups were shot @ 50ft.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/200PTC.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/200LTC.jpg

This is exactly my experience in 45acp with carbide FCD. When I used it for 9mm, the results were a disaster. My remarks are for cast bullets only. I have not reloaded jacketed bullets using the carbide FCD by Lee. Maybe with them the dies are okay. Frankly, I am not going there and have stuffed the carbide FCD into the dust bin of history.

milprileb
02-09-2012, 10:07 AM
Nothing conclusive but I ran a test when I first got the carbide FCD.
I had a box of GI National Match 45acp ammo. Fmj 230 gr RN ball of course.
Every round showed a bulge in case as it came out of the box and every
round PLONKED into my chamber gauge (my pistol barrel). It was just good
ammo.

Ran them all through the Lee carbide FCD in 45acp and all could be felt to swage
that bulge down on the case as I used the press. This was my first clue that the
Lee carbide FCD would swage down my cast bullets and this was to be found to be
entirely true with poor results when I used this die.

Everyone here warned me but my curiosity drove me to buy this die. Everyone here was
right as rain. I can't imagine how daft I could have been to believe otherwise.

MtGun44
02-09-2012, 01:15 PM
I stand by my original opinion. A solution in search of a problem.

It is a taper crimp die with a sizer ring. If you have a normal, properly functioning
sizer die, you don't need a second one. If you have a taper crimp die, you don't need
one with a sizer ring added. A normal die set with a TC die is all that is needed.

Combining the two just adds an opportunity IN SOME DIMENSIONAL SITUATIONS NOT
ALL, to size down your seated boolit and ruin the ammo. What a benefit.,

Bill

MtGun44
02-09-2012, 01:20 PM
Hangfire - I could imagine that with soft boolits and the rifle FC die, you could make
the crimp hard and tight enough (poor judgement IMO) to make the crimp damage
the boolit as it exits. For tube mag rifles and jbullets with a cannelure, I find the Lee
FC rifle die to be very consistent in crimp and it will not collapse a shoulder if you have
a slightly too long case like a normal rifle crimp die will do. I hadn't originally intended
to drift over here, since this was a pistol FC die thread.

Bill