Springfield 03A3 G&H Sporter build.

[W.R.Buchanan]

A project I have been fiddling with for a year now is the remodling of my 03A3 barreled action. I have a reprint of a Griffin & Howe catalog from 1925 which has many pictures and all of the specifications for the Grifffin & Howe "remodeled" Springfield Sporter. I have wanted to build a gun like this for all of my adult life, and finally all of the piece parts are coming together.

I was able to buy an 03A3 barreled action from my high school metal shop teacher last year. He had bought it from the DCM in 1965 for $15 as close out surplus! I gave him $150, and was very happy to get it..

The rifle is of Remington manufacture from early 1944 and has a two groove barrel made 9/43. The action is nearly flawless and the barrel is perfect. It is obvious to me that this gun was not fired very much at all, which is exactly what you are looking for in a donor gun. The rear sight had been boogered and was completely destroyed during removal, but no loss as it was replaced anyway..

I tried to talk him out of his Smith-Corona but he wasn't having any of it.

When done it will be the quintesential Springfield Sporter.

I consider the Griffin and Howe remodeled Springfield Sporters to be the height of American gunmaking. They used the established look and specifications of Ludwig Wundhammer who created the original Springfield sporters, and improved on those guns not only in appearance but in efficiency too.

The original Griffin & Howe guns were a colaboration between James V Howe of Griffin & Howe and Townsend Whelan in an effort to produce a quality rifle from surplus Springfields at a reasonable price that could be afforded by most serious sporting hunters of the time. This would also serve to redirect the American Rifleman away from the lever action rifle which was the most common sporting rifle of the day. These guns pretty much ushered in the era of the bolt action rifle, and eventually gave way to Winchester M70's, Remingtons and others.

At the time (1925) complete surplus rifles were available from the DCM at a cost of $30 (National Match configuration)and the completed G&H rifles were around $50 total.

The resulting product pretty much defined what the American Bolt Action Sporting Rifle should look like, and with very small changes in appearance it is what you see today from most high end gunmakers like Cooper and Dakota.

The guns were available in different levels of custom upgrade, including a variety of what were considered to be state of the art calibers as well as all of the Whelan wildcats. Higher grades of wood in the stock could be specified. Even the highest grades seldom exceeded $100 total, which in 1925 was a tidy sum but still within the reach of the serious Sportsman. I think you could compare it to the $1200-1500 gun of today. The last real live G&H Springfield Sporter I saw on the internet went for $8995!

You could also get a Mauser actioned rifle made for a similar amount. A good current example of the high grade Mauser action G&H rifle in action could be seen in the movie "Public Enemy" in which Melvin Purvis (Christian Bale) appropriately dressed for the chase, shoots Pretty Boy Floyd in an apple orchard at the beginning of the movie. It is a classic scene to say the least and shows the rifle in nice detail.

My intention with this project is to create a Remodeled Springfield Rifle of medium grade with iron sightsand some current upgrades, for use in 200 yd Silhoutte with cast boolits, and hunting if the opportunity presents itself. It will get shot alot.

It harkens to a time when real men shot real guns with iron sights, and a 200 yard shot was a nice shot indeed. Real sportsmen didn't use telescopes on their rifles, they used receiver sights or bolt shroud sights, and you had to actually be able to shoot well to take down game. There was none of this,,, I shoot once a year and I got my last deer at a lasered 600 yards with my state of the art sniper rifle with bypod and 24x scope. My personal opinion is this is not hunting, it is long range warfare against those that aren't even aware of your presence, and can't shoot back.

At the time 80 years ago, the Lyman #48 receiver sight was "state of the art" as far as sighting systems were concerned. There were telescopic sights available but those optics were very unreliable and even if one was mounted there was most assuredly a Lyman 48 also mounted as a backup. The top slide QD removal system of the Lyman sight made this possible and practical.

My gun has a Lyman #48 S rear sight that I bought off Ebay a year ago for $125.00. I spent a complete Sunday afternoon, yes 4 complete hours, on my milling machine, to drill and tap 2 holes in the receiver of that gun! I broke a new 6-48 tap(a nice one) 4 times while tapping the 2 holes and was extremely lucky to extract the bits and pieces each time. I am a highly skilled machinist with 30 years in the trade, and I have never sweated that much blood over two holes in my life! But in the end I was successful, and the sight is mounted correctly. It is surprising however that the top of the receiver is not parallel to the bottom, and at first the sight looked like it was cockeyed. Further examination revealed that it was in fact in the right position, and just needed to be tweaked on a little.

On the way to the SHOT Show two weeks ago we stopped at Richard's Microfit Gunstocks in Sun Valley CA. I got a laminated stock for my Mauser.45ACP project which I got out of stock on hand. I decided to order a G & H Style Stock in semi fancy grade walnut. This stock was $115.00 and should be ready in a few weeks. No hurry. It will also get a Pachmahyer Decelerator recoil pad installed as I am building a shooting replica not a steel butt plated pain inducer.

The other thing I have done on this project recently is, installing a Timney Trigger. This took exactly 3 minutes to do and worked perfectly right out of the gate. Now the gun has a perfect trigger with no creep and about a 4 lb letoff. It was $42 thru Brownells. The only mod I will have to make is to widen the slot for the trigger in the trigger guard to clear the wider trigger.

I got a 03 style trigger guard to replace the stamped one on the A3 off Ebay for $75. When it arrived it was NOT all that! So I started in on it. As usual when you don't understand how something works very well you tend to screw it up which I managed to do. I removed too much metal from the catch in order to get it to function better and as a result it now won't stay closed, and falls out with the slightest bump. I can fix it but would have preferred to have the experience not to mess with it in the first place. It would have saved an hours labor in the end.

I will attach a Turners M1907 style sling to this gun when done. The Turners slings available from Brownells or Creedmore Sports are by far the best made sling of this type available and $50 is not too much to pay for this important part.

I still have to smooth out the barrel exterior as it looks like 30 miles of bad road due to the lack of asthetics imparted on wartime production, then the whole action will get Parkerized with the Brownells black parkerizing solution. The only other mod will be to the bolt handle and I haven't decided exactly what I want it to look like but it will be new to the gun.

I have a good idea and picture of what I want to end up with in my head. I also have many pictures I have collected over the years of similar guns made by Sedgley and others. My favorite is a picture of Ernest Hemmingway in the sitting position "in the sling" shooting. It was taken in the 30's while he was still a relatively young man. It is a picture of a serious sportsman using a piece of equipment that is well suited to the task at hand. Maybe someone will take a picture like that of me someday.

So that's where I'm at on this project right now. Waiting for the stock.

Here's some pics of the action and rear sight and trigger.

Randy

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2c6345a96d5.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3733)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2c636eda58e.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3734)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2c63882ed0c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3735)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2c6a892e526.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3737)

[smoked turkey]

Very interesting write up. You have done your homework. I agree completely with your take on those wonderful rifles. I wish I had one. I am wanting a nice original military for shooting cast in. However one along the lines of a G&H would be really nice indeed. I am not willing to come up with the prices of some I have seen. I thought the 03/A3 had a peep sight already. So if I understand you wanted a Lyman #48, so you took off the peep and installed the #48? I am interested in following your progress on this. I hope you will post with your progress from time to time. Thanks for sharing.

[W.R.Buchanan]

smoked: the one thig that was bad on my barreled action was the rear sight. It had been gooned and there was no hope for it. I had planned to install a Lyman 48 S anyway so it was no big loss.

There are several places that have NOS rear sights for 03A3's and for not much money, but like I said I was committed to a Lyman 48S for both functionality and to remain true to the breed.

I will post more info on this project as it progresses, as this gun is really right in line with the whole Castboolits.com spirit.

Randy

[schreibwy]

Not too long ago I handled a G & H take down circa 1929. It was well used and I should have traded everything I own to get it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

schreibwy: Yes you sould have, but since you didin't, could you describe the gun in as much detail as you can remember for us? Especially the takedown system.

Randy

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I am in the thinking part of what to do with my Sedgely Springfield.

Keep us posted.

Rich

[W.R.Buchanan]

Rich you are really lucky to live in a place that has alot of classic guns around. I went to a large gun show last weekend and there was exactly no Springfiled sporters there at all and not much else of interest either.

I have some what more unique tastes than the average guy and have little interest in the common or mundane. Plenty of AR's in the world. The unique and classic have always attracted me, and that's not to say necessarily the Expensive Unique and Classic.

I like to try to duplicate the feel and look of the things that are unobtainable for me by making my own by refinishing and/or redoing a common gun into a "custom shop" type of gun.

You know I'm big on Marlins and the reason why is with a little TLC they can be made much better than they are shipped. They have no custom shop so others have massaged those guns into things that are far in excess of the norm buy creating different configurations not available from the factory (even if it was producing) and producing higher degrees of finish that the factory just won't do? Go figure?.

I talked to Brian Pearce at the show and he told me he paid $3800 for that 1894 takedown he has. In the new Rifle Mag there is a pic of his matching SS 1895 That Clay made for him in .50 Alaskan! I bet it was right in there with the 1894 as far as price. Nice guns, but I can't afford to have someone else build something I really don't need. Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have it, just don't need it if I have to spend that kind of money for it.

I don't feel the need to spend $1800 for someone else to up grade a $500 gun, when I can do most if not all of the work myself. Plus that most of the work is cosmetic anyway and virtually anyone can refinish a stock. Also if I completely screw the gun up so it's trash I'd still only be out the $500. And that hasn't happened yet. My Marlin 1895 CB came out really well, and it shoots well too. I have $600 in it including the $50 for the Decelerator pad and finishing supplies, and the cost of the gun originally.

I'll probably have around $600 total in the Springfield project when done, and I already know it will be an absolute joy to shoot. I get the satisfaction of knowing I built something with character that not everybody can own, even if they knew what it was. I just love a good project.

This gun will easily out last me, and maybe some day someone will think it is an actual G&H Sporter and pay someone $8 grand for it!

Just like I knew what I was doin'.,,,,, fooled 'em again!

Randy

[quack1]

WR- This site has had pictures of a takedown G&H Springfield in one of the threads from the past couple of months. Don't remember which one so you'll have to look. Also a lot of pictures of older custom guns, many G&H, in other threads.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=7&page=1&PHPSESSID=aadd170f60aa5e8bf0eed60e4d8e4718

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sounds like my stock maybe ready this next week 2/27/12 and I'll post pics when I get it.

Randy

Quack: Thanks for the site reference. There was a bunch of early Springfield Sporter Pics on there. I didn't find the take down yet but I did see several G&H rifles that were a cut above most anything you see today. Plus several Sedgleys and a couple of very early Wundhammer sporters.

It blows me away that these guys had this level of craftsmanship in 1920. Everything they did was excellent, and very little compares to it today. Cooper and Dakota offer guns of a similar level of workmanship, but the proportions are completely dfferent.

They have certainly evolved over the years but I'm thinking the originals were right to begin with, and the new ones are just different. I do know that the shooters of yesteryear were a cut above most anything we have nowadays.. Back then a Lyman #48 was the state of the art and people shot things at 200 yards. Now we have scopes that do everything but pull the trigger at the right time.

I like the other way better.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Got my stock today from Richard's Microfit Gunstocks. Right on time at 6 weeks from date of order.

It is "Semi Fancy Walnut", and was $114.

The inletting is pretty close but I still will have some fitting to do to get the action in the stock. The rest of the stock is rough and "basically to shape." It will require a fair amount of finishing and hand work to get it shaped just right.

I also have to cut the buttstock about 1.5" to get it so I end up with a 13 3/4" LOP. the Griffin & Howe catalog I have from 1925 distinctly states that a 6' man can't operate a bolt gun efficiently with longer than 13 3/4" LOP. Since I am making a G&H replica it must be so.

I also will cut the forend off at the appropriate point in front of the trigger guard.

This stock has some interesting grain which is mostly lengthwise. It has very pronounced dark streaks which are very promenent on the right side of the butt and left side of the forend. Some burling and some nice spots which will stick out like sore thumbs for character.

I found out some other tidbits about the barreled action today I hadn't noticed before.

I thought I had gotten the D&T'd holes for the Lyman 48S about .015 out of position. Turns out they are exactly where they need to be. Using the bolt race for reference the holes should be directly in the center of the right bolt race, and they are.

The top of the receiver is not parallel to the bottom of the receiver. The top of the receiver where the sight is normally attached (03A3) appeared to be canted slightly to the left so the sight was tweaked so it was parallel to the top bridge of the receiver which is it's closet point of reference. This is fine the way it is and will remain unchanged. Also on closer examination the top is parallel to the bolt races.

However, and I can do nothing about this, the flat bottom of the receiver is about 2 degrees out of parallel with the top of the receiver bridge. How they did this is beyond me. So if the action fits into the stock perfectly the gun will always appear to be cockeyed to the left. My only shot is to blend as much of this illusion out of the stock as I can.

It is the type of thing a trained eye would catch, but most people would never see however when you build something from the ground up you do see this type of thing. I guess you just have to work around it.

This is also the reason I don't wax cars anymore. You see every little flaw in the car and I just can't stand it!

Pretty pumped. Much More to come! [smilie=w:

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Spent a couple of hours today working on getting the barreled action into the stock. Got it closer but still not complete.

Had to open the slot for the trigger in the trigger guard up so the Timney trigger would go in. Did that on the Mill.

There is a few disappointments on the inletting from the stock maker. The rear tang of the action has a gap on one side and the only way to correct it is to make the other side the same and then fill it with black dyed epoxy.

The other one is the inlet for the trigger guard, they cut too much off the pistol grip and as a result the trigger guard will have to be filed down flush with the stock to make it look like.

Neither of these are the end of the world, but like waxing car they are imperfections that detract from the overall feel in the end result.

I guess I'll live.

As you can see there is a lot of linier grain in the stock. It will stick out like a nice looking sore thumb when finished.

Just a matter of hacking on the stock until the desired shape is achieved, and there is a long way to go. Lot of wood on the underside of the forend to remove, as well as around the pistol grip, also must cut about 1" off the butt to get the right LOP with the Decelerator installed. Lots of work in the pistol grip area also.

So far the gun balances nearly perfectly just under the magazine, and this is exactly what I'm looking for in an offhand rifle.

Still, pretty pumped. [smilie=2:

Randy

[flounderman]

my observations: most stocks are too long. I cut mine to 13 1/2. it is the width of the shoulders more than the height that determines what is comfortable. offhand rifle, you want the weight more foreward. If you are having to cut the trigger guard, take it off the top of the magazine. fiberglass mixed with sawdust will fill gaps but you need lighter colored sawdust because the glass makes it darker. If you are not using a milled triggerguard, get one. it might fit better, too. most people decide they are done before they are and leave too much wood in the pistol grip and forend. if the comb isn't fluted and you are going to cut a flute, top line of the flute should point to the toe. forend should be half length of barrel, cheekpiece probably should have the rear shortened to match the stock after it has been shortened. most extend too far to the rear after the stock is shortened. step back and look at your work from time to time. you get a better perspective of the effect you are trying to create.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Flounder: Thanks for the relationships. I got many of them from my 1925 G&H catalog. however I have only done one set of flutes on my Marlin 1895 and after looking the top lines which are curved down point just above the toe of the stock. I basically copied the flutes on a pistol grip style Marlin stock I have. Now I know what it is supposed to be I can do better.

My foreend is 9.5 from the front of the receiver per G&H. I can't get the drop at comb and drop at heel to the G&H dimensions of 1 5/8 and 2 3/4 because the stock just isn't made that way. But that's OK because the more modern wisdom says those stocks transmitted more recoil than later straiter versions do. As it sits I'll probably make 1" at the comb and 1.75" at the heel.

Still as it sits the rear sight will line up with my eye perfectly, and once I hack on the buttstock some more it will be better. Right now the gun balances just slightly forward of the center of the mag.

I am definately creeping up on this one. There is a lot of wood to be removed from the bottom of the fore end to get the line of the floor plate projected forward to the end.

Also I want shadow line check piece and there is a bunch of extra material to remove to get there, much of it at the rear like you stated.

I do have a milled trigger guard and it fits the inlet pretty well. The rear tang of the receiver has a big gap on one side of the very rear part with the screw, and the only way I see to fix it is to make the other side the same and fill it with black colored epoxy. I have never been able to match wood filler of any kind.

Also when they cleaned the stock up after routing it they got a little deep into the top of the pistol grip right behind the rear tang of the receiver. I think this will work out OK as there is alot of extra meat in that area, and comparing that area to other guns I have shows some sculpting of the wood in that area to be the norm. It will take along time to do that detail work. It is all compound curves that have to be matched side to side exactly.

Lots to do here and your advice is well taken.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Spent 2 hours hacking on my stock today and it gets closer to the desired result everytime I play with it.

I have got to find some material to mark the inletting so I can see exactly where the action is contacting the stock so I can refine the fit.

The barrel channel was a little deep from the factory and the only solution is to lower the action deeper into the stock.

Making some progress, but I am shy on tools and technique for the inletting process. And I must admit I am learning this part of stock work as I go.

I have been doing a bunch of Internet research on this type of rifle and have found some good stuff and some good pictures that have given me some ideas on shapes of cheek pieces etc.

I was surprised that his thread came up on one of my Google searches.

Wow I'm on the internet. Hope nobody thinks I'm an expert! I'm kind of making this up as I go!

Randy

[smoked turkey]

Shhhh..don't tell anyone. We all are looking on thinking your the expert. Its going to be very nice.

[quasi]

That is some nice wood for that little amount of money!

[StrawHat]

...I have got to find some material to mark the inletting so I can see exactly where the action is contacting the stock so I can refine the fit...Randy

When inletting, I adjust the flame on an oil lamp to soot the piece prior to settling it in the stock.



...The barrel channel was a little deep from the factory and the only solution is to lower the action deeper into the stock...Randy


Bed the channel?

[gnoahhh]

Tuning in late, but it looks nice so far! Congrats!

Instead of using filler in the tang, have you considered gluing in a small piece of walnut (a 'dutchman', as it were) and trimming it after the glue sets? Might look better than filler on both sides of the tang.

If you do use an epoxy based filler, thicken it with white colloidal silica first, and then add a pinch of walnut sanding dust to color it. The white base will allow gradual coloring until a perfect match is achieved. If trying to use unthickened epoxy, the addition of sanding dust will invariably make it turn out too dark by the time you've added enough to make it a pasty consistency for use in patchwork. Colloidal silica is common, and can be found in any woodworking catalog, or a local woodshop, or boatyard. I suspect that Brownell's Acraglass Gel is is pre-thickened with colloidal silica. (Not 'fiberglass' as many assume.)

[W.R.Buchanan]

I had originally planned to bed this stock the old fashoned way but the stock as it came was inletted a little too deep and loose in some other areas, so now I am going to "glass bed" it with SS filled Devcon.

I need a more information on exactly how much to relieve the inlet for the filler material, (waiting fror Richard to get back form vacation) and then it is just a matter of doing it. As a millwright I have done this process many times on machine bases, but they were not guns, and they were also not mine!

So knowing exactly what to do before jumping into a serious mess is in order.

Part of the fun of a project like this is the learning of the methods of completing different types of work.

Here's some better pics of the stock,, you'll note the grain and fiddleback in the buttstock and forend. Not bad for $114! The surface is not even 60 grit yet, and I can't wait untill I slop the oil onto it. Long ways to go to get there.


The lines drawn around the tang are similar to the way my Husqvarna rifle has the stock relieved coming up to the level of the tang. It is a nice touch I may or maynot do. I will do a shadow line cheekpiece but it won't be like what is drawn as I have found that a kindey shaped cheekpiece is not compatable with a deeply fluted comb. Two completely different styles. So it will stay sloped forward like it is now.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Surprisingly there is exactly 1100 different ways to glass bed a rifle action. I can't believe how much conflicting data there is on the internet about the proceedure.

What I am doing is taking the relavent points from several writeups and using the most logical parts, or parts I feel apply to my situation. For some reason, virtually every who publishes a glass bedding article uses a Rem 700 action. I realize this is the simplest one to use but it leaves out a bunch of information that would be different on a Springfield action.

On the thread 03 vs 03A3 in the Military Rifles section, Chargar and BobS have given me a bunch of good data and advice on the various relationships on these guns.

My intention on this gun is to pillar bed the action, and also glass bed the recoil lug and rear tang, and front and rear of the triggerguard. The front portion of the bed will include about 2-3 inches of the barrel.

I still have to remove the woopie from the barrel so it will be shaped to it's final contour and can be properly spaced off the barrel channel prior to applying the goo.

Project is moving along slowly, but surely.

Randy

[Just Duke]

Well done Randy.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Added a Merit Iris eyepiece to the Lyman sight today. $40 good deal.

Last week I got a Lyman 17XNB which is the integral globe front sight with interchangable inserts. it completely replaces the existing front sight and looks really cool.

More to come.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

well: Today it rained like hell all day so I spent the day in the shop doing pickup work and some painting on the Jeep project.

I also managed to finally get the front sight off the barrel of the Springfield. I tried everything I had in my shop to remove the pin that holds the sight to the barrel without ANY luck whatsoever.

I finally drilled it out.

I had been soaking the thing for the last 2 weeks in Kroil but even with the pin drilled out it wouldn't budge.

I got out my crack pipe torch and gently heated the ring of the sight, and then toonced it with a aluminum rod as a drift, and a hammer. It finally gave up. It was totally rusted to the barrel and being nice with it would have yeilded nothing. Force prevailed !

I then filed off all the dings that were under the origiinal sight off the barrel and then buffed it really good on the scotchbrite wheel, and then on the fuzz wheel.

I used a Polish Hone (rod with slot cut into the end with sand paper wrapped around it) and cleaned up the inside of the Lyman 17XNB.

After mounting the front sight I decided to reassemble the rifle and see what I had.

What I have got is a front sight that is cocked to the left about 2 degrees. That's with the timing marks on the barrel/receiver perfectly lined up. I will either have to unscrew the barrel that 2 degrees or leave it, and live with it. I mentioned earlier that my whole receiver was cockeyed and that the top of the rear ring was not parrallel to the bottom of the receiver. Well the bottom of the receiver is what is locating the barreled action in the stock. To really fix this problem I have to get the action to sit right in the stock. Maybe I can get it closer by futsing with the bedding.

Maybe I'll make an offset key for the barrel? :Bright idea: That should fix it!

I have an Airgun Target sheet that has all the normal silhoutte targets printed so at 10 yds they apprear to be the same sizes as looking at them on the range.

Without my glassses on, the front globe aperature makes the targets clear, and with the Merit Adjustable Rear Aperature I can make the front almost perfectly clear.

This is going to work out really well as a range shooter.

It is starting to look like a proper Springfield Sporter/Target rifle.

Randy

[Just Duke]

well: Today it rained like hell all day so I spent the day in the shop doing pickup work and some painting on the Jeep project.

I also managed to finally get the front sight off the barrel of the Springfield. I tried everything I had in my shop to remove the pin that holds the sight to the barrel without ANY luck whatsoever.

I finally drilled it out.

I had been soaking the thing for the last 2 weeks in Kroil but even with the pin drilled out it wouldn't budge.

Randy

Randy. Next time try a propane torch and a birthday candle. Works most times.

[Just Duke]

Check out this tail gate gunsmith. Real inspirational. http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/4711078031/p/1

[W.R.Buchanan]

Duke : thanks for the link. I scanned thru it quickly and found a few very useful tips on just the first read thru.

There's a lot of info on that thread to digest, and I have to study it closer to really see all he is doing.

I was happy to see this guy had the presence of mind to at least try to download some of his knowledge as a gunsmith to others wanting to learn. Some people write books to do this. Others just take it all to the grave.

When I think of the amount of knowledge that is lost everytime someone dies, it baffles me why in a society as advanced as ours supposedly is, that we let so much knowledge go into the ground.

I personally think every one should be required to download all he has learned into some data base for future use. Obviously that data base would have be able to filter out BS, but If it existed I think it could be programed to filter.

Our lifes accumulation of knowledge is our greatest legacy, and to not pass it on is the height of stupidity. To not pass it on intentionally is downright selfish!

After Rome fell, it took the rest of the world a thousand years to figure out how to make concrete again. And yet Roman structures built 2500 years ago still stand today. This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Share your knowledge freely (within reason) You never know when the show will fold up and we all go away.

Randy

[Just Duke]

Duke : thanks for the link. I scanned thru it quickly and found a few very useful tips on just the first read thru.

There's a lot of info on that thread to digest, and I have to study it closer to really see all he is doing.

I was happy to see this guy had the presence of mind to at least try to download some of his knowledge as a gunsmith to others wanting to learn. Some people write books to do this. Others just take it all to the grave.

When I think of the amount of knowledge that is lost everytime someone dies, it baffles me why in a society as advanced as ours supposedly is, that we let so much knowledge go into the ground.

I personally think every one should be required to download all he has learned into some data base for future use. Obviously that data base would have be able to filter out BS, but If it existed I think it could be programed to filter.

Our lifes accumulation of knowledge is our greatest legacy, and to not pass it on is the height of stupidity. To not pass it on intentionally is downright selfish!

After Rome fell, it took the rest of the world a thousand years to figure out how to make concrete again. And yet Roman structures built 2500 years ago still stand today. This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Share your knowledge freely (within reason) You never know when the show will fold up and we all go away.

Randy

You can only unlock the door to the future if you already have a key from the past.
We now own the world only we have lost the instruction manual.

[DEVERS454]

Confucius say, "Wash hands and face in morning but neck at night." :grin:

But back on topic, I am already started researching a project like this when I read this thread.

I am debating stock choices, but, I think I want to go with a more original style G&H. Thanks B!

Regarding front and rear sight choices, I am 90% certain I am going to go with a 57SMET instead of the older 48s, as most of the ones that are out there are really banged up or cost more than 2x the 57smet is going for new.

One thing I am wondering about is how are you handling the finish on the rifle?

Are you going to leave it park'd or clean it up and blue it? or maybe coat it with something like cerakote? I've slow rust blued a shotgun barrel before and it is painfully slow. I managed to catch up on all 6 episode of "The Thin Man" in between applications of the rust blue and boiling. 8 complete applications in 24 hours with nearly zero sleep.

[DEVERS454]

Let us know if the offset key trick works. It shouldn't take much, but, I have heard of this before with other setups.




What I have got is a front sight that is cocked to the left about 2 degrees. That's with the timing marks on the barrel/receiver perfectly lined up. I will either have to unscrew the barrel that 2 degrees or leave it, and live with it. I mentioned earlier that my whole receiver was cockeyed and that the top of the rear ring was not parrallel to the bottom of the receiver. Well the bottom of the receiver is what is locating the barreled action in the stock. To really fix this problem I have to get the action to sit right in the stock. Maybe I can get it closer by futsing with the bedding.

Maybe I'll make an offset key for the barrel? :Bright idea: That should fix it!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Devers: Finish on the rifle?

Before I can do that I absoutely must sand the dip out of my barrel. This is why I haven't been working on it. It is just one of those things I am not looking forward to doing. I will do it soon but it will be a royal PITA.

I can't finish the bedding of the action until the barrel is smoothed out as I am glass bedding the entire length of the forend as it is low and if left would show a big gap under the forend tip. It will have like 5 layers of tape on the barrel for clearance to float the barrel.

As a result of having to smooth the barrel out the existing finsh will be lost. My original vision for this type of gun was a black parkerized finish with a red-ish or golden brown laminated stock.

This has now evolved to a Walnut stock with the black parkerized finish on the metal.

IN any event I will bead blast all of it before it is parkerized and will probably apply the finish myself. It is not hard to do and Brownells sells the kit along with the blackener. I just have to find a pan long enough to swallow the whole barreled action as I have no intention of taking the barrel off the action.

As far as the stock,,,, It will get stained the appropriate color and then a Tru-Oil finish about 12-15 coats deep. IN other words, no pits or voids in the finish. Lots of sanding and shaping before the finish goes on.

The offset key will definately fix the offset Lyman 17 XNB sights position. It will be a pain to make as the key is only 1/8" to start. It will be difficult to hold onto to take a .005 cut half way up the key, on both sides. I'll figure it out. I may have to make a little fixture to hold it.

Funny thing is if I don't like the Globe sight I will put the stock sight back on so I can't lose the original key.

One of the problems I run into with gun projects is getting hung up due to needing to do something you don't know how to do, which puts off other pieces of the job and you end up with a sequence of events that are all contingent on one or more things happening, and they all have to happen in order.

My Jeep Project is the biggest thing standing in front of gun projects as it must get done this year. You talk about a sequence of events! That one is a nightmare. But it is coming together.

Randy

[Buckshot]

.............Randy, I had to make an offset front sight base key for my 03-A1. I determined I had to offset it 0.025" to the left (viewed as if shooting). The original key for the military sight base is 0.100" x 0.100". I took a piece of 1/8" (0.125") x 1" stock and cut off a piece 1/4" wide.

Set on a parallel in the vice, I ran an endmill down it to get a flat surface. Flipped it over and milled the opposite side flat. While it remained in the vise, I zeroed the spindle, then moved the endmill down 0.050". Zeroed the Y axis and fed it in 0.025" and then made the cut, climb milling.

Removing the piece from the vice I had it half done. I turned it over and clamped on the newly created 0.100" wide x 0.050" deep piece. The vice jaws were only clamping on a 0.050" piece so it was a good thing not much else had to be removed. The total height was 0.127" so 0.027" had to come off to get the 0.100" height. It was done in 2 passes.

Taking the last pass as "0" on the Z axis I dropped the endmill 0.047" and zeroed it against the side of the material opposite the clamped offset, then dialed in 0.025" and made a slow pass, again climb miling.

I now had a key that was 0.100" tall and a total of 0.125" wide. However there was two 0.025" ledges opposing, and diagonal to each other. Viewed from one end you appeared to have two 0.050" tall by 0.100" wide pieces, one atop the other and offset 0.025". You'll notice in the previous paragraph I dialled the endmill down 0.003" short of the desired 0.050" as I REALLY didn't want to run the face of the endmill on of of the vise jaws [smilie=l:. I finished up that short side with a triangular jeweler's file.

It was the smallest item I'd ever made in the mill, but it turned out nicely and worked great on the rifle.

.................Buckshot

[Ecramer]

Fantastic work and interesting thread. I lack the machining skills for a project like this -- so naturally I have an idea <grin>. If it were mine, it'd have to be in .35 Whelen, just as a tribute to James Howe and Townsend Whelen and not because I have anything against .30-06 which is among my favorites.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Buckshot: I have made literally hundreds of small parts like this on my mills over the years. Little itty bitty parts for fighter-jet helmets, parts for gages, microwave units, etc.

The issue is always holding onto the part. Most of the parts I am talking about were made in little fixtures and the fixture was held in the vise. However I also have mill marks on some of my vise jaws. I have found no matter how careful you are eventually you will drill something or go too deep on a cut. Luckily you can regrind the jaws or even replace them. I never have but you can.

I had one part for Microwave ovens that looked like a little slingshot. We turned blanks on a screw machine with a shank that was .045 in dia and a head that was around .125. The part was then held in a Hardinge head and two opposing flats were cut on the head. Then the knee was raised (with an indicator on it to control the outcome) and the other two flats were cut. This resulted in a head that was rectangular.

Then an .030 cross hole was drilled thru the head the long way, location +/-.001

Then 2 .023 slotting saws were ganged together to yeild a .046-.047 slot in the head. Now it looks like a slingshot.

There was supposed to be 45's of the sides of the head, but the only way I could do this was to put the part in a pin vise and bump it against a felt wheel while watching thru a jewelers a loupe. The parts were deburred on a Scotchbrite fuzz wheel and this is the job I learned how to make them. They hid alot of the minute imperfections that show up at 10X, and give the part a frosted look.

All dimensions on this part were +/- .001 and they were a fricken nightmare. I got $6 a piece for them and I think I made about 150-200 of them. Took days of sweating blood to accomplish.

The company was miffed because the 45 degree flats which were all of .007-8 long were not perfectly symetrical... Of course you could only see this under a 20x microscope and I only had a 10x one. They still bought the parts but they didn't come back, which didn't bother me a bit. I watched as the job got bounced from shop to shop, as nobody could make any money making the parts and couldn't achieve the degree of perfection the outfit wanted.

Finally it came back to me and I bid it at $50 a part, never heard from them again.

This key will be somewhat easier.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ecramer: The .35 Whelan was designed specifically so a guy could have his Springfield barrel rebored to .358 and clean up the chamber and be ready to go.

This can be done for about $150 nowadays.

So you build the gun in .30-06, and then redo the barrel as a separate operation. That way there is less down time during the build.

Randy

[PatMarlin]

Awesome Randy...!

I thought I would have mine done by now this year.

[DEVERS454]

I'd like to know of a shop that rebores a 30-06 to 35 Whelen for $150...