cb's not hitting where aimed ???

[NCGMAN]

ok here it is. i have a bunch of lead i got years ago when i did telephone work. i guess it is pure lead not sure. got a lee mold, sizer for a .357 mag. did prep mold.. read about hardness of lead and added some wheel weights and alloy solder... poured some bullets: some looked good some had wrinkles (lead not hot enough),, but was not looking for perfection at this time.. i put gas checks on them... i used a standard handgun load. (not hot) .. i have a H&R handi rifle .357 with scope. will drive nails with hornady or sierra bullets.. when i shot the cast bullets they went high and to the left and right.
so do cast bullets shoot different than jacketed bullets???? or were they wobbly coming out of the barrel?????

[Ben]

Velocity changes point of impact.

Weight of the projectile changes the point of impact.

A combination of the above two items changes impact .

The manner in which you hold a firearm can change the point of impact.

etc. , etc.

If it makes you feel any better, for a big part of my life I seem to of had tens of thousands of bullets
that didn't hit where I aimed.

Ben

[runfiverun]

not having big enough boolits changes groups into patterns.
a gas check is not a cure all it won't fix groups.

[btroj]

Many guns put different loads into different groups.

When developing a new load I don't care where the bullets hit, I am looking for group size. Once I settle on a load it is no big deal to one the sights. That is why they move after all.

Many things can change point of impact. Ben mentioned many of them. Pretty much figure on any real change in velocity or bullet weight making big difference in point of impact. My 32-20 can change better than 12 inches at 50 yards based on velocity alone.

[longbow]

What load?

What lube?

What velocity?

Was there any leading in the barrel after shooting?

What size did you size then to when installing gas checks?

Have you slugged your barrel to be sure the boolits are correct size at approx. 0.001" over groove diameter?

You really need to get handle on your lead hardness if you are pushing them fast. Not so much with light loads.

First thing to determine is boolit to barrel fit. If too small then accuracy is bound to suffer.

Many moulds cast undersize boolits that will not produce good accuracy and many guns have oversize bores that will not produce accuracy with "correctly" sized boolits. The boolit has to fit the barrel. Just because the mould says 0.357" doesn't mean it casts 0.357" and if the barrel is 0.358" then 0.357" isn't the right size anyway.

The short story is that we need more information before we can be much help.

Longbow

[geargnasher]

Wrinkled boolits are caused by MOULD not hot enough, NOT the LEAD being not hot enough. If the lead is hot enough to pour into the mould, it's hot enough to make good boolits.

Ben and Btroj pretty much covered the rest.

What's interesting is when you get a rifle load almost dialed in and are fine-tuning it, a half-grain difference in charge weight will print a group as much as an inch away from the previous group, but make about the same sized group. Once I settle on a load, I shoot it under different conditions and at different yardages, and THEN adjust the sights to match the POI.

Gear

[NCGMAN]

to answer longbow's questions:
powder: herco shotgun and handgun powder (ce 0519) 7 grains load...
lee bullet mold: .358 dia. 158 gr.
lee sizer .358 (probably not needed)
lee liquid allox: bullet lube
hornady 35 cal gas checks
velocity should be around 1200 fps....

i think i am going to melt them all down and start over. since the sizer is the same as the bullet, maybe i don't need to size them..
there was no lead in the barrel as i clean it regularly, and that was the first time i have ever shot a non jacketed bullet through it....

thanks for the replys though.....

[1Shirt]

As you can see, there are many variables. That is the challange. Read, learn, and progress. It's addictive.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[runfiverun]

i use the 7 grs of herco load in my 357 mag levergun but with a plain base boolit.
i do size to 358 also, but i size down to it.
i use an alloy of 1% tin and 3% antimony air cooled.
you can approximate this same hardness with a 25-1 lead-tin alloy.
i would re-check the bbl also you might need a bigger boolit like 359-60 to work for you.

[Cherokee]

Welcome to the forum....You have to try differnt loads. 7/Herco works for me in 357 mag but your rifle is different than any other, so try something different. Since your barrel was "clean" after shooting, seems the size & alloy might be OK, change powder charge and try again. Let us know how it works.

[longbow]

NCGMAN:

I was just curious as to what you had for size and load because there are lots of little things that can cause grief.

It doesn't sound like a hot load so the lead hardness may not be an issue and LLA should fine for lube though some like it and some do not.

Boolit fit is #1. If the boolit is undersize (which is a common problem) then accuracy can be elusive. Poorly filled out boolits can also result in poor accuracy due to gas leakage or uneven base.

You didn't say what the groove diameter is and you mention that the sizer wasn't touching the boolits so it is quite possible the boolits are undersize.

My 1894 Marlin .44 mag shot factory ammo quite well but gave dismal accuracy with cast boolits when I first started casting for it. Turns out I was uneducated and thought a Lyman 429421 would cast the right size for the gun. Not so! The mould cast at 0.429" and the groove diameter was 0.4315". It leaded a bit but not too bad but accuracy was horrible.

Fatter boolits of 0.432"+ solved both leading and accuracy issues for me.

The best place to start is with well cast boolits that fill the grooves plus a bit.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes for you.

Longbow

[NCGMAN]

i did take the boolits i cast and melted them down. this time the mold and lead were "hot" and the boolits were harder with wheel weights added and cast out beautiful. so here is what i done after lubing the boolits.. i done it in groups of four boolits.
sized four boolits and loaded with 7 grains herco..
loaded four boolits not sized,,, same load....
sized four and added gas checks,,, same load..
four with gas checks and not sized,,, same load....

shot at 80 yards and all the boolits were hitting six inches high. they were in a group straight above the + mark.... this is an improvement from the last post.
now for the QUESTION OF THE DAY ??????
Will i have to dial the scope in for these type "boolits" vs "bullets"... with bullets this little gun is on the +...

THANKS: THE NCGMAN

[fredj338]

ok here it is. i have a bunch of lead i got years ago when i did telephone work. i guess it is pure lead not sure. got a lee mold, sizer for a .357 mag. did prep mold.. read about hardness of lead and added some wheel weights and alloy solder... poured some bullets: some looked good some had wrinkles (lead not hot enough),, but was not looking for perfection at this time.. i put gas checks on them... i used a standard handgun load. (not hot) .. i have a H&R handi rifle .357 with scope. will drive nails with hornady or sierra bullets.. when i shot the cast bullets they went high and to the left and right.
so do cast bullets shoot different than jacketed bullets???? or were they wobbly coming out of the barrel?????

It's not uncommon for diff manuf jacketed bulelts to shoot to slightly diff POI from each other. Changing to lead would be no diff. If the groups are good, just adjust the sights.

[popper]

Forget the GC for this load, size them anyway for uniformity, aim lower. You didn't indicate your group size, if it is good for say 20 rounds, you found a good load. Just remember the scope click adjustment (write it down). You got there pretty quick so now you could play with it for better performance. go have some fun.

[Rangefinder]

What I've done in the past for any rifle that I change between J-words and cast frequently is mark my sight dial for one with a dot of fingernail polish in one color and a dot for the other in another color. Then I can usually dial it back and forth anytime I want to switch it up. Just remember A) which color is which, and B) if and how many full revolutions to the mark of adjustment if you need to go all the way around on the dial.

[runfiverun]

i'd just bump the load up a half grain and do it again.